QB Situation- my $.02

[Tangodnzr]

- BS. The proof will be be in the pudding - and so far that pudding tastes like crap.

Well, as for me, I'll just take your word for it, not really knowing first hand what crap tastes like myself.

 

[CaptTurbo]

Have you ever seen Joe Montana, Tom Brady, Brett Favre, John Elway - forget it -- can you name me one great QB who you can remember crying after a loss?.

Brett Favre did....twice. Whatcha got now cheese?

 

[jstadvl]

My point beef

is what does crying have to do with doing your job, or being a man or leader ? I'm not just talking football. I'll give you at least 4 real life situations or more if you like.
the point is the crying, or almost crying, has nothing to do with him doing his job. And your right, people who don't play ball, or never have, shouldn't hae it throwwn in their aces that they couldn't take it, they should **** about it. They just don't know what it's like.

 

[chickenhead]

I'm not really concerned whether Elway, Montana, or Favre ever cried or not, because I'm not expecting McCown to be Elway, Montana, or Favre just yet. How many Elways, Montanas, and Favres have there been? Only three that I can remember. From what I understand, the next Joe Montana is playing in Denver

 

[john h]

So I've been kind of quiet, but I thought I'd throw some thoughts in now. I stayed quiet because I thought the QB play spoke for itself and the outcome was somewhat inevitable.

Going back to the pre-season, I said King was a much better QB than McCown and got roasted for it.

Back then, I said that McCown, for all his nice physical attributes, had no pocket presense or poise, can't feel the rush and doesn't see the whole field. I think it's fair to say I was on the right track there.

For all the talk about McCown's being "young" or "inexperienced", I think you need a quick reality check. This is McCown's 3rd year in the league and his sixth start. If he doesn't have any of the above mentioned traits by now, he won't get them any time soon if at all. It's one thing if he's making mistakes that can be corrected, but the qualities that McCown lacks are innate, not learned.

None of the 1st, 2nd or 3rd year QBs are playing nearly that badly. They are inconsistent and still learning for sure, but none have been nearly as bad. Think about this comparison, going into his 3rd season in the league, King had a record of 14-7, went to the playoffs twice and hasn't played since. Anyone wonder if King has developed any? What if he's better than he was in his second season (hint: he is)?

As for the play of the OL, yes it is not good. But I believe the Cards line is better than most think. For all the talk that McCown can't be fairly judged because he's running for his life, notice that King did not run for his life once. McCown's lack of pocket awareness is making the OL look much much worse than it is. The OL and running game will both improve dramatically with King at QB.

Had King played the last 3 games, the Cards would probably be 2-1 with a shot to be 3-0. It's really not that far fetched. This idea that the Cards need to ride McCown until you are 0-8 is stupid.

Think about this......

If I was right about McCown when no one else thought so, what if...just what if I am right about King as well. Here's a hint: He's not the caretaker you think he is. The Cards can be in the playoffs THIS YEAR if King is the QB by half time next week.

Well put. I have been on the same page as you since the end of preseason and have been saying so. I still think McCown will be on the bench by the end of game 6. Green will not be able to go 6 straight losses without making a needed change. Even if McCown was playing well you sometimes need to make a QB change if you are not winning to set up some sort of change of pace. DG made his big mistake (and i said so at the time) by naming McCown as a starter before training camp even began. Being somewhat hard headed DG would hardly change his mind no matter what happened in our pre season games and everyone knows what happened and continues to happen in our games. There is still some time to right this ship by time is rapidly slipping away. If McCown has a bad first half this weekend and we cannot put a ball in the endzone he is an idiot if he does not change QB's at half time and I will have lost all faith in DG.

 

[john h]

THe O-line looked better yesterday than a week ago. McCown has the potential to get better every week, while King is a known. McCown made some big-time plays yesterday. He'll learn the fastest if he continues to play and if Denny pulls him when he gets too out-of-control. I would have liked to see him pulled earlier and then put back in later.

I continue to say the game is not about McCown or his development. It is about the team. While he developing???????? the rest of the team must be about ready to abandon ship, especially the defense. His ineffectiveness has a very negative effect on the other players and they look to their coach to make some necessary changes. At some point if he continues to let McCown develop and we go 0-6 they will just throw in the towell and start trying to figure out how to get out of this mess. He sure does not look like a team leader on the field. His body language betrays him. I think I am living through Jake Plummer all over again except that Jake was miles ahead of Josh. Forget calling him a rookie. He is well beyond that point.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

is what does crying have to do with doing your job, or being a man or leader ? I'm not just talking football. I'll give you at least 4 real life situations or more if you like.
the point is the crying, or almost crying, has nothing to do with him doing his job. And your right, people who don't play ball, or never have, shouldn't hae it throwwn in their aces that they couldn't take it, they should **** about it. They just don't know what it's like.

you know jstadvl, you've got a point.

A guy gives everything hes got in an emotional football game, and then gets a little choked up in a press conference because he felt like he let his team down. I can see that. I guess thats not that bad. Still, I would rather that he not cry. I would like for him to show more poise than that. But, he's young and deadly serious about succeeding. So lets just forget about it.

And your right about Josh being tougher than me. I'd last about five seconds in an NFL game.

Like I said, I'm still full on the Josh bandwagon. He gets a least a dozen more starts before we can really make an objective evaluation of his potential.

 

[jstadvl]

It's all good

crimson. My bad. I got a little personal and shouldn't, I've been around him and he's a solid kid.
Sorry if i came off wrong.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, as for me, I'll just take your word for it, not really knowing first hand what crap tastes like myself.

than you obviously haven't been watching the Cardinals offense - hey - It's something I just don't want my QB to do - just a personal thing that's all. And I'm still waiting to see where Brett Favre cried - and if anyone brings up the game after his dad died that's a joke and you know it.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

crimson. My bad. I got a little personal and shouldn't, I've been around him and he's a solid kid.
Sorry if i came off wrong.

Hey no problem. I was really upset when Josh got pulled against ATL. I mean, whether it was a screen pass or three step drop or whatever, Jones totally whiffed on the block he was supposed to make on Josh's third fumble.

Josh should have had at least three more seconds on that play, but he got blindsided. To me, it didn't seem right to give him the hook at that point. He was really throwing the ball well, I don't care what anyone says.

 

[This_Guy]

Hey no problem. I was really upset when Josh got pulled against ATL. I mean, whether it was a screen pass or three step drop or whatever, Jones totally whiffed on the block he supposed to make on the Josh's third fumble.

Josh should have had at least three more seconds on that play, but he got blindsided. To me, it didn't seem right to give him the hook at that point. He was really throwing the ball well, I don't care what anyone says.

Green and McCown both admitted that sack was McCown's fault. Not only that, but it's obvious.

1) If the play is a 3 step drop, the pass routes and blocking schemes assume that the QB throws the ball on the 3rd or 4th step.

2) The QB took 12 or 13 steps before (trying to) throw the ball.

3) You contend that the QB should have at least three more seconds to throw the ball.

4) You suggest that the QB is not at fault because he wasn't given enough time to take a 15-18 foot drop.

....If you say so.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Green and McCown both admitted that sack was McCown's fault. Not only that, but it's obvious.

1) If the play is a 3 step drop, the pass routes and blocking schemes assume that the QB throws the ball on the 3rd or 4th step.

2) The QB took 12 or 13 steps before (trying to) throw the ball.

3) You contend that the QB should have at least three more seconds to throw the ball.

4) You suggest that the QB is not at fault because he wasn't given enough time to take a 15-18 foot drop.

....If you say so.

I'm suggesting that, if Jones makes his block, the third fumble never happens, and maybe were talking about Josh as a hero instead of a goat.

This guy, I understand Josh needs to take care of the ball better, and that, if he keeps fumbling 5 times a game, its going to cost him his job. But lets also be fair and say that, in general, the pass blocking is not helping the situation.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm suggesting that, if Jones makes his block, the third fumble never happens, and maybe were talking about Josh as a hero instead of a goat.

This guy, I understand Josh needs to take care of the ball better, and that, if he keeps fumbling 5 times a game, its going to cost him his job. But lets also be fair and say that, in general, the pass blocking is not helping the situation.

True but arguing over a missed block on a play where the ball is by DESIGN supposed to be long gone is missing the point. Green himself said it at the press conference, some of those plays the ball is supposed to be gone, if it's not, it's impossible for the line to be at fault because they are blocking to a designed play, and Josh isn't running that play.

Sure if Jones made some contact it would have helped, and he SHOULD be told that by the staff, but the fact is if Josh throws the ball away when he's supposed to, there's no fumble and your goat to hero scenario might still happen.

Point being it's a 2 way street and Jones is taking a ton of flack for a play that both the coach and the QB admit is the QB's fault.

 

[clif]

king will not be any better than McCown.. there are no playmakers on this offense, and they are behind a suspect line at best.

McCown is a God. 15 years later and this post still applies.

 

[Solar7]

Weird bump. I had just started college and was away from my family for the first time when this was posted.

 

[Redsz]

Haha! I remember these debates. What a time!

 

[PACardsFan]

I never got involved in this debate because I knew that both McCown & King sucked. I do remember getting roasted for being pro-Warner vs Leinart. But, only after being so excited that we drafted Leinart in the first place. The turning point for me in the Warner/Leinart debates was when Warner came into the Ravens game in 2007 after halftime & threw for 250 yards. Boldin was a beast that 2nd half & only a bs roughing penalty against AW cost us one of the best Cardinal road comebacks I'd ever seen against one of the best defensive teams in the league.

 

[CardLogic]

I never got involved in this debate because I knew that both McCown & King sucked. I do remember getting roasted for being pro-Warner vs Leinart. But, only after being so excited that we drafted Leinart in the first place. The turning point for me in the Warner/Leinart debates was when Warner came into the Ravens game in 2007 after halftime & threw for 250 yards. Boldin was a beast that 2nd half & only a bs roughing penalty against AW cost us one of the best Cardinal road comebacks I'd ever seen against one of the best defensive teams in the league.

You're right; that was a bullsh*t roughing penalty on AW!

 

[Dr. Jones]

You're right; that was a bullsh*t roughing penalty on AW!

I was there with him!!!! It was Bull$HIT!!!