RJ back to Dbacks?

[devilalum]

I'm still in the camp that I hope Upton plays 2B opposed to CF.... him and Drew would form the best DP combination in years (ala Trammell/Whitaker)... I would keep Quentin-RF, Young-CF, and Carlos Gonazlez-LF long-term...However, I dont envision Upton being promoted up to the ML until probably '09 at the earliest, so Hudson will remain at 2B until then.....

Hudson is already the best fielding second baseman in baseball?!?!?

and he just turned 29

and he was one of our best hitters

.287 with 15 homers and 67 rbis is excellent for a second baseman?

 

[The Commish]

No to RJ. He sucks, his contract sucks and he is not the solution to our problems. I appreciate all that he did for us in the past, but that should not sway us into thinking we could use him again. No way Byrnes give up any decent prospects for him.

 

[devilfan02]

The Yankees have expressed interest in right-handed setup man Brandon Medders, the source said, in addition to several of the five starting pitchers the D-Backs consider candidates for the two available spots in their 2007 rotation — Edgar Gonzalez, Enrique Gonzalez, Dustin Nippert, Ross Ohlendorf and Micah Owings.

The D-Backs, looking to retain as much young pitching as possible as they build for the future, have balked at the Yankees’ asking price, although it appears they would consider substituting veteran reliever Luis Vizcaino for Medders.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=81294

 

[Stallion]

The D-Backs’ offer, believed to include a package of young pitchers, is “significantly behind” an offer from San Diego

Good grief, is EVERYONE going to end up in the NL West?

We're already going to have to play against Gonzo. I don't RJ in our division either (even if he pitches poorly).

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I know we've begged to differ on how we value Clark, but I still dont classify '05 as a fluke....

Career OPS Numbers for Tony Clark

1995 - 690
1996 - 802
1997 - 876
1998 - 880
1999 - 869
2000 - 878
2001 - 856
2002 - 556
2003 - 772
2004 - 755
2005 - 1003
2006 - 643

Looking at this, how can you classify 2005 as anything other than a fluke? It certainly was not progression as he was one of the worst hitters in baseball in 2006 and was merely marginal in the decade prior to that.

Of course he will put up more numbers if he gets more ABs, but nobody in their right mind is going to give a starting job nor trade for a 35 year old guy who couldn't crack the Mendoza line last year.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Hudson is already the best fielding second baseman in baseball?!?!?

and he just turned 29

and he was one of our best hitters

.287 with 15 homers and 67 rbis is excellent for a second baseman?

The Dbacks would need to clear room for Upton by at least '09, and Hudson should have high redeemable trade value then.... It better suits the Dbacks for Justin Upton to become their every day 2B (which is the position that I prefer him to play)..... To me, converting him into an OF was the worst since it affects a players development/transition...which could detract away from him in other areas..IE.. his offense.....

Looking at this, how can you classify 2005 as anything other than a fluke? It certainly was not progression as he was one of the worst hitters in baseball in 2006 and was merely marginal in the decade prior to that.

Of course he will put up more numbers if he gets more ABs, but nobody in their right mind is going to give a starting job nor trade for a 35 year old guy who couldn't crack the Mendoza line last year.

I guess we'll just have to learn to agree to disagree about or respective stance on Clark.....

He played most of last-season plagued by multiple injuries which caused his production to decline immensely.... And you cannot necessarily use on particular stat to gauge a player's progress.... His power-numbers were extremely high when he played for Detroit, however, injuries again began to limit him.... But.. it's all moot now since it appears more than evident that the Dbacks wont acquire RJ..and that Clark will finish his career here in AZ regardless...

 

[overseascardfan]

Give the man respect, he is the BIG UNIT. I hope we sign him. We have lacked left handed quality pitching for quite some time. The Yankees signed another left hander today in Igawa, and with Pavano, Mussina, Pettite, Wang, and maybe clemens to come, Johnson seems odd man out. I want Randy to finish his career in 2-3 more years... as an Arizona Diamondback. I want to see his face along with Luis Gonzalez in the outfield someday, and I want him wearing and Diamondback cap in his hall of fame plaque. But most of all, I want to see him get to 300 wins THIS season, meaning 20 wins. How cool will that be for young players like Drew and Quentin to help a legend reach that point. Not to mention the guy has some killer instinct and intimidation that he may be able to pass on to Nippert or someone. Anyhow, anyone who doesnt want him has a short term memory, forgets that we got a killer deal for him and will probably not have to give up to much to get him back for a short time.
Anyhow....This sounds GREAT to me..

Webb
Johnson
Hernandez
Gonzalez
Rookie...

You forgot Davis.

 

[Lefty]

This from today's NY Daily News:

Sources say Yankees, Diamondbacks closer to deal on Johnson

NEW YORK - The Arizona Diamondbacks have been the most aggressive suitors for Randy Johnson and sources close to the negotiations said Thursday that the Yankees and Arizona could complete a trade to send Johnson back to the desert before next week.

The Diamondbacks, who view Johnson as a gate attraction, want to talk to the Big Unit about a contract extension, a source said. That would give Arizona a chance to reap the attendance and buzz benefits of Johnson going for his 300th victory - he will enter next season with 280 wins.

The Yankees, meanwhile, have their eyes on a package of Arizona pitching prospects. The Diamondbacks are loaded with young talent and if the Yankees send Johnson home to Arizona - Johnson's home is in the Phoenix suburb of Paradise Valley - they'd like to get at least two of the following three pitchers: Dustin Nippert, Micah Owings and Ross Ohlendorf.

Nippert, 25, is a 6-8 righthander who was 13-8 with a 4.87 ERA in Triple-A last season and lost both his major league starts. Owings, a 6-5 righty, was 6-2 at Double-A and 10-0 at Triple-A. Ohlendorf, a 6-4 righty, spent most of last season in Double-A, going 10-8 with a 3.29 ERA. Ohlendorf had 125 strikeouts and only 29 walks in 1772/3 innings.

The Padres, believed to be offering reliever Scott Linebrink, also have been involved, but the Yankees apparently prefer the players they might be able to pry from the Diamondbacks. While talks are ongoing, the Yankees have not brought a deal to Johnson and his agents to approve - Johnson has a full no-trade clause in his contract.

Johnson, who is coming off back surgery, did not request a trade, but the Yankees began discussions with other clubs after GM Brian Cashman called Johnson to offer condolences after Johnson's older brother died recently. During the call, Johnson told the GM it was important to be close to his family.

The Yankees don't feel that trading Johnson is a necessity, but they're willing to listen, and several baseball officials have said privately recently that the Yankees are working diligently to consummate a deal.

 

[The Commish]

They can have Nippert and Ohlendorf, but we need to keep Owings. I'd be willing to throw in Vizcaino or Medders if needed.

 

[overseascardfan]

They can have Nippert and Ohlendorf, but we need to keep Owings. I'd be willing to throw in Vizcaino or Medders if needed.

I think we need to keep all three and tell the Yankees to F*** off.

 

[Espo]

Dan Graziano wrote:
Randy Johnson's brief stay in New York could end as soon as today.

A baseball official who spoke with one of the teams involved yesterday said a trade that would send Johnson from the Yankees back to the Arizona Diamondbacks was nearing its completion. While several complicated details remained to be worked out -- mostly involving deferred money owed to Johnson by the Diamondbacks -- the official said those issues could be worked out by today and a deal could be done soon.

The Yankees have been speaking to the Diamondbacks about sending the 43-year-old future Hall of Fame left-hander back to Arizona for more than a week, since Johnson let GM Brian Cashman know he'd welcome such a move.

The Yankees are seeking three young pitchers from Arizona, with much of their focus on right-handed reliever Brandon Medders, whom they think could help their 2007 bullpen. But once the teams agree on players to be exchanged, the Diamondbacks and Johnson would want to open a 72-hour negotiating window during which they could work out financial issues and, most likely, a contract extension.

Johnson starred for the Diamondbacks from 1999-2004, winning four Cy Young Awards and a World Series title before Arizona dealt him to the Yankees just before the 2005 season. He is 34-19 in two seasons as a Yankee and has 280 victories in his career.

Dan Graziano may be reached at dgraziano.com

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Trading for a guy like Johnson and not looking into a guy like Mulder seems very ass backwards to me. Let's face it, Johnson is old, injury prone, and hasn't been very effective the last few years. You are telling that you would rather spend around 16 million for a number three guy on a good rotation? For a team that is so spendthrift these days, you would figure there would be many better ways to spend that 16 million. Mulder is a year off of a stretch that would be considered among the best in baseball. Sure, he had a shoulder injury, but being a middle market team, we sometimes have to take a chance. In addition, Mulder is much younger and all talks previously indicated that Mulder would prefer to stay in AZ and would take less than market value. I can't for the life of me understand why they are going for Johnson.

 

[hafey]

I think they are skeptical of mulder's claim to be on pace to start 25 games this year. I think other teams are too, otherwise he'd be signed.

We'll if their risk judgement is correct.

 

[The Commish]

Since when are the Bidwills running the Diamondbacks?

 

[devilalum]

My fear now is that the Dbacks may give up some really good talent if the Yankees cough up some major cash in the deal.

 

[Lefty]

I don't like this trade if we give up all that pitching. If you look at the RJ trade a few years ago and this trade of RJ, what did the Diamondbacks wind up with and what did they lose? This is assuming the guys being mentioned in this trade.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

I don't like this trade if we give up all that pitching. If you look at the RJ trade a few years ago and this trade of RJ, what did the Diamondbacks wind up with and what did they lose? This is assuming the guys being mentioned in this trade.

Basically, the only player of substance in the deal with New York they got wound up being Chris Young, and even he was a biproduct of this deal. Now, they're turning around and asking two of Arizona's top prospects for him, despite the fact that he's coming off the two worst statistical seasons of his career.

So, looking at what Arizona RECIEVED in the deal, when Johnson was coming off a Cy Young season in comparison to what they're being expected to cough up for him coming off two lousy seasons astounds me and sickens the hell out of me to think about.

I don't know what makes me feel worse.. The fact the Yankees are asking for this assnine sum, or the fact that Josh Byrnes hasn't told them to get bent for even asking.

Wait I know what makes me sickest... The local media folks who are thumping on their chests saying this NEEDS to happen.

 

[Espo]

Basically, the only player of substance in the deal with New York they got wound up being Chris Young, and even he was a biproduct of this deal. Now, they're turning around and asking two of Arizona's top prospects for him, despite the fact that he's coming off the two worst statistical seasons of his career.

So, looking at what Arizona RECIEVED in the deal, when Johnson was coming off a Cy Young season in comparison to what they're being expected to cough up for him coming off two lousy seasons astounds me and sickens the hell out of me to think about.

I don't know what makes me feel worse.. The fact the Yankees are asking for this assnine sum, or the fact that Josh Byrnes hasn't told them to get bent for even asking.

Wait I know what makes me sickest... The local media folks who are thumping on their chests saying this NEEDS to happen.

Massive over reaction Jay. We don't even know what is being traded. If it winds up being Olendorf and Medders I don't think its a horrible deal. At some point we are going to have to trade some prospects because not all these pitchers are going to have spots with the organization. It's great to have a good farm system but you always use some of it as trade pieces. I trust in Byrnes and I trust that this is more than a sentimental move by the organization. From everything I've read, statistical analysis wise, claims that Johnson was the most unlucky pitcher in the majors and that he is projected to have a 3.70 ERA this season. Byrnes probably thinks he can help this team compete.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Massive over reaction Jay. We don't even know what is being traded. If it winds up being Olendorf and Medders I don't think its a horrible deal. At some point we are going to have to trade some prospects because not all these pitchers are going to have spots with the organization. It's great to have a good farm system but you always use some of it as trade pieces. I trust in Byrnes and I trust that this is more than a sentimental move by the organization. From everything I've read, statistical analysis wise, claims that Johnson was the most unlucky pitcher in the majors and that he is projected to have a 3.70 ERA this season. Byrnes probably thinks he can help this team compete.

Ohlendorf and Medders, I'm alright with, but according to a few of my friends who live in New York City, they're reporting that the Yanks have already set their eyes on Owings, Nippert and Medders or Vizcaino. Overreaction or not, that's way too much to give up for a 43 year old on the downside of his career (IMO anyhow).

I understand that sooner or later, prospects are going to have to be moved. I have no issues with that at all Greg, it's the fact that the return to me for what they're reportedly being held up for gun point at is unrealistic.

I know, sometimes gambles like these pay off.. Trading Travis Lee, Vincente Padilla and Nelson Figeroa for a guy with a "history of elbow troubles" won this team a World Series. However, there's a big difference between that team and this one-- that team was built to make the playoffs, to win a World Series. This team, at least in my opinion, is not.

As for sentimental value, yes it'd be nice to see Arizona bring Johnson back and let him retire a Diamondback, but sentiment won't help this team five, six or even TWO years down the road.

 

[Espo]

You are completely right if Owings, Nippert and a bullpen arm go to New York for Johnson and the Yanks aren't paying 95% of the salary the Dbacks are getting screwed with their pants on. I just hope that Byrnes is smarter than this. Then again this may be Moorad and Kendricks thinking that they can "appease" the fans by bringing back an older superstar to overshadow the lack of other moves. This deal will be a huge risk like you said I just think there maybe a surprising reward.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

You are completely right if Owings, Nippert and a bullpen arm go to New York for Johnson and the Yanks aren't paying 95% of the salary the Dbacks are getting screwed with their pants on. I just hope that Byrnes is smarter than this.

Know what's really crazy Greg? There's a number of Yankee fans out there who honest to God think they're getting Tracy, Jackson, Quentin or Montero for Johnson. Lou can vouch for this, in an MSN conversation, one of my friends who lives in New York honest to God said he thought Tracy for Johnson was a fair trade. I told him they'd have to throw in far more than Johnson for Tracy and he replied with "yeah, would Carl Pavano make up the difference"? I swear, I couldn't make that up if I tried.

Then again this may be Moorad and Kendricks thinking that they can "appease" the fans by bringing back an older superstar to overshadow the lack of other moves.

See, that's my biggest concern here, that I think will be expediated by San Francisco's sigining of Zito, Los Angeles' of Schmidt and San Diego's of Maddux. I really DON'T want to see Arizona make a move just for the sake of keeping up with the Joneses. That really defeats the entire purpose IMO.

This deal will be a huge risk like you said I just think there maybe a surprising reward.

I hope your right man..

 

[Espo]

Jay it doesn't surprise me one bit that the Yankees fans think they would get a top prospect. They are delusional and probably feel angry still that the Dbacks took the 2001 series from them. Anyone who thinks Tracy for Johnson would be a fair deal needs to check out the quality of stuff they are smoking.

 

[Lefty]

If this article is true I am not a Josh Byrnes fan anymore.
http://mvn.com/mlb-yankees/2006/12/30/yankees-trade-unit/

Yankees, Diamondbacks Agree to Trade
By Dan Benton | December 30th, 2006
Print | E-mail

Big Unit - NJ.com
There had been rumors for days and many thought the deal was falling through. That was not the case as the New York Yankees and Arizona Diamondbacks agreed to a trade that will send Randy Johnson back to Arizona.

This has not yet been announced, so yes you’ve heard it here first. I am still gathering as many details as I can but I am told this is done.

Apparently the agreement was for two prospects (Nippert & Owings) but there were no further details on the money situation. The two teams have agreed but it is pending a contract extension. The D-Backs will have a 72 hour window to negotiate with Johnson. If that falls through [and I hope it doesn’t] the entire trade will fall through.

There were rumors a few days ago that the two teams had agreed to the trade but they pulled it off the table because contract extension talks weren’t going anywhere.

Update:

Now I am being told the Yankees may get three prospects back in return.

I will post further details as I get them.

 

[Zeno]

If true, stupid, stupid, stupid...ranks right up there with some of the other dumb trades from the Joe G era.

Nothing like trading for an overpaid, washed-up pitcher at the expense of 2 or 3 young guys who might be able to contribute in a couple of seasons.

He does not make the team significantly better. It was a deal just to sell tickets. Of course the guy is a world class jerk so I don't see it that way.

 

[Espo]

IF this is true then Ken Kendrick and Jeff Morad have Byrnes by the balls or the Yankees have paid every penny of the Johnson contract.