Rumor: Phx is considering offering Gordon max deal (4 years, $58 million)

[mojorizen7]

This is the Suns' system.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLWjQ7nZTkI

That was so awesome.

One can only hope the Suns system got traded to L.A. yesterday because the Suns system doesn't work.It hasn't worked anywhere for anybody at anytime when keeping score past April

to hopefully a new system at some point during this rebuild.

 

[Griffin]

Eric Gordon speaks:

"Phoenix just showed a lot more interest, overall, and definitely in how they negotiated," Gordon said. "I don't know what New Orleans' plans are for me. There are no negotiations right now."

...

"They drafted another shooting guard, a combo guard like me, which tells me they have another plan," Gordon said.

The Suns' recent committments -- point guard Goran Dragic and small forward Michael Beasley -- are a better fit, Gordon suggested.

"Phoenix signed two other young guys that are very talented," he said. "They're already established and they're already going to get better."

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8...uns-more-committed-future-new-orleans-hornets

 

[SunsTzu]

Can't see his comments going over well with NOH fans. Not that what he said is necessarily wrong, but if he keeps speaking out I think it will put more pressure on the Hornets to part with him.

This is playing out pretty similar to the JJ S&T.

 

[95pro]

hopefully this guy stays healthy if we end up with him, isn't he going to be on the Olympic team?

 

[Covert Rain]

Dudley put up the same numbers without Nash.

Gortat does not play basketball in the paint at all. He is bad in the post, he is bad at help defense. His offense was 80% pick and roll fed by Nash and the rest were medium range jumpers. Playing with his back to the baskets is not really in his repertoire.

That is not true.

Gortat
FGM = 427
Attempted = 763

Attempts by Shot Type:
Pick and Roll Shots = 262 (34%)
Post Ups = 142 (18.6%)
Cut = 158 (20%)
All others = 562 (27.4%)

That means 66% of his shots didn't come from the pick and roll. Not to mention that Gortat still has to fight through screens on the pick and rolls. Also, Gortat makes the decisions to cut. Gortat has to fight through traffic on cuts and put himself in position to get a pass. Gortat still has to make those shots.

Even if you make the ridiculous argument that ALL of his P&R and CUTS are 100% from Nash (LOL)....that still means 54% of his shots come from passes from someone on the team while 46% are not from those type of shots. A whopping 8% difference.

You are ridiculous.

You keep bringing this up and grossly exaggerating yet you keep forgetting that Nash plays with Robin Lopez too. All of Nash's spoon feeding didn't help Lopez put up Gortat's numbers when he was in there. Even pre-Gortat when Lopez had his chance he didn't put up Gortat's numbers. Please explain?

If Nash is so crucial to our Centers success and "anybody" can do it why that has that NOT held true with centers not named Gortat?

 

[slinslin]

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/pl...vs-Steve-Nash|101162,959;year=201112;season=r

Gortat is assisted on 80% of all his baskets, I believe tops in the league pretty much, fact
Gortat's FG% goes from 57% with Nash on the floor to 47% without Nash on the floor, fact.
52% of Gortat's shot attemps when Nash is on the floor came from under the rim, fact. (42% with Nash on the bench)
63.4% of Gortats made baskets came from under the rim when Nash was on the floor, fact. (55% when Nash was on the bench)
4.6 FTA per 36 with Nash, 2.6FTA per 36 without Nash.
11.5 rebounds per 36 with Nash, 9.8 per 36 without Nash.

Gortat is probably more dependant on another player than anyone else in the NBA.

I don't have access to synergy stats but midseason he was much less effective in post-up situations than even Markieff Morris.

 

[slinslin]

Just for kicks who are these 2 players?

Player A 21ppg 58%FG 10.8FTA 8.0rpg
Player B 18.3ppg 57%FG 4.6FTA 11.5rpg

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Just for kicks who are these 2 players?

Player A 21ppg 58%FG 10.8FTA 8.0rpg
Player B 18.3ppg 57%FG 4.6FTA 11.5rpg

Dude change your avatar. You look like you sweat Amare and can't get over his leaving and are super bitter.

Oh wait......

 

[jagu]

Amare , boy was I glad he was gone from the Suns. I don't think the Knicks can ever win a ring with his clueless defense.

 

[slinslin]

Dude change your avatar. You look like you sweat Amare and can't get over his leaving and are super bitter.

Oh wait......

Amare isn't one of the players, what does he have to do with this?

 

[Covert Rain]

http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player-vs-player.html#Marcin-Gortat-vs-Steve-Nash|101162,959;year=201112;season=r

Gortat is assisted on 80% of all his baskets, I believe tops in the league pretty much, fact
Gortat's FG% goes from 57% with Nash on the floor to 47% without Nash on the floor, fact.
52% of Gortat's shot attemps when Nash is on the floor came from under the rim, fact. (42% with Nash on the bench)
63.4% of Gortats made baskets came from under the rim when Nash was on the floor, fact. (55% when Nash was on the bench)
4.6 FTA per 36 with Nash, 2.6FTA per 36 without Nash.
11.5 rebounds per 36 with Nash, 9.8 per 36 without Nash.

Gortat is probably more dependant on another player than anyone else in the NBA.

I don't have access to synergy stats but midseason he was much less effective in post-up situations than even Markieff Morris.

Holy crap. Dude....the Suns don't use him as a post up player which means by definition most of his shots are from passes from other players. The Suns have always made their centers (minus Shaq) drift to the top of the paint versus post up. How hard is that to understand?

Case and point he is assisted on 76% of his jump shots as well LOL.

He dropped 10% when Nash was off the floor. WOW. Name me a team in the NBA that wouldn't take a mere 10% drop off when their best player is not on the floor. Hilarious.

So let's get this straight...first 80% of Gortat's shots were pick and roll...which is false. Now your saying that Nash is responsible for all of Gortat's offense? LOL.

So does Nash pass to anybody else on the team?

You still have not explained how other centers on this team have not matched Gortat's ouput when playing with Nash....for example Lopez.

You still have not explained how statistically Nash gets around 10.7 assists per game but they all magically go to Gortat.

You still have not explained how Nash uses his Jedi Mind powers to will in the 34% of Gortat's pick and rolls and the other 66% of shots not off the pick and rolls. If Nash can do that...hell he is the best player EVER in the NBA.

 

[slinslin]

You still have not explained how other centers on this team have not matched Gortat's ouput when playing with Nash....for example Lopez.

Robin Lopez shot a higher % than Gortat with Nash on the floor, scored considerably more points per minute than Gortat with Nash on the floor and more than doubled the FTA per minute.

Maybe you should re-think your statement because numbers clearly tell you that Lopez had higher production than Gortat in that scenario.

You still have not explained how statistically Nash gets around 10.7 assists per game but they all magically go to Gortat.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. We are not arguing that Nash is dependant on Gortat.

How hard is that to understand? Case and point he is assisted on 76% of his jump shots as well LOL

Again your point? Not all of the Suns pick and roll plays end up with Gortat rolling to the basket. Often he ended up with open jumpers by setting picks for Nash. How does being fed on 76% of his jumpers make an argument pro Gortat not being dependant on Nash?

 

[jagu]

Gortat could score 10 points per game and I wouldn't care. He gets boards and he became a very important offensive player which I think wore him down as the season went on. With Dragic who can get into the paint and score I think Gortat will be better in getting second chance points and still be effective. I've seen plenty of Dragic games late last season to vouch for him as a pretty good pick and roll point guard as well.

You can throw all the stats at us but the fact is nothing can predict what the Suns or Gortat will be like next season. It's going to be a fun season, and something to look forward to. I'm excited to see Dragic be the starting PG.

 

[jagu]

Goran Dragic: Court Vision (Transition)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2R5pKT3eM&feature=player_embedded

I think Dragic's best at pick and roll and transition. Pretty much Nash style.

 

[jagu]

Robin Lopez shot a higher % than Gortat with Nash on the floor, scored considerably more points per minute than Gortat with Nash on the floor and more than doubled the FTA per minute.

Maybe you should re-think your statement because numbers clearly tell you that Lopez had higher production than Gortat in that scenario.



I am not sure what you are trying to say here. We are not arguing that Nash is dependant on Gortat.

I don't even think Robin Lopez is worthy enough to wash Gortat's sweaty towels.

 

[SweetD]

Lopez knowing the system is a reason to keep him? Wow... I cant imagine how bad he would be if he didnt know the system.

They wanna sign Lopez to a one year deal for a few mil, fine, but there is no reason to go out of our way to keep him. We've seen him in our "system" (or whats left of it) and he sucks.

Slinslin's continued obsession with dumping Gortat for beans slays me, even after commenting on how bad this team is going to be on the glass and with Gortat as the ONLY decent rebounder on the squad.

Have you been watching the Suns at all? Do we run the same plays as the Bulls, Twolv's, Spurs, Thunder???

The Suns space the floor to open up the lanes and run pick and rolls at the top of the key. That is why when we had Shaq he would end up taking up to much space in the key and Amare could get to the basket as easy since Shaq's defender was there with him.

The way our current system works is with the C playing out side the key set up to follow the shot or shoot a baseline jumper if his man commits to the player going to the hoop.

I am sure there is much more to it, but yes having someone knows how to play in "the system" is important as well.

 

[Covert Rain]

Robin Lopez shot a higher % than Gortat with Nash on the floor, scored considerably more points per minute than Gortat with Nash on the floor and more than doubled the FTA per minute.

Maybe you should re-think your statement because numbers clearly tell you that Lopez had higher production than Gortat in that scenario.

You at least managed to attempt to answer one question but it's a pathetic attempt.

Why doesn't Lopez average the same amount of points and rebounds as Gortat when it's the same offense and the same plays being ran to him?

Also, don't play that game. When your playing 10 to 12 minutes per game it's easy to inflate your per minute production. We all know the more minutes Lopez plays the less efficient he becomes.

Look at his efficiency ratio base on per minute played.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. We are not arguing that Nash is dependant on Gortat.

Read what I said. You are saying that all of Gortats offense comes from Nash. It is statistically impossible since Nash only averaged 10.7 per game and he clearly assist plenty of other players on the team. Meaning that plenty of other players assist Gortat. Hence he is not dependent solely on Nash.

Again your point? Not all of the Suns pick and roll plays end up with Gortat rolling to the basket. Often he ended up with open jumpers by setting picks for Nash. How does being fed on 76% of his jumpers make an argument pro Gortat not being dependant on Nash?

First off not all of those jumpers are passes from Nash. Again...impossible. Second, that is this teams offensive style. So, Gortat is suppose to put up more point in the paint and less points off passes even though that is is role? Huh?

You would have a great point if a high percentage of the offense ran through Gortat in the post and he still couldn't make those shots. That would be really bad because that would tell you that despite having tons of opportunities in the post his shot % is horrible compared to when he is assisted. When a player is only given the opportunity to post up 19% of the time....that means most of his offensive opportunities are from the pass. Gortat can't control that offensive scheme.

 

[Phrazbit]

Robin Lopez shot a higher % than Gortat with Nash on the floor, scored considerably more points per minute than Gortat with Nash on the floor and more than doubled the FTA per minute.

Maybe you should re-think your statement because numbers clearly tell you that Lopez had higher production than Gortat in that scenario.



I am not sure what you are trying to say here. We are not arguing that Nash is dependant on Gortat.

lol, too bad the Suns posted a -8.9 per 36 with Robin and Nash together, Robin was also too stupid to even stay on the court as he averaged over 5 fouls per 36 in that situation.

So, if only Robin wasnt committing a foul every few minutes, stinking at rebounding and the Suns were not getting butchered like hogs while him and Nash were paired then... it would be a beautiful setup!

 

[SweetD]

Goran Dragic: Court Vision (Transition)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2R5pKT3eM&feature=player_embedded

I think Dragic's best at pick and roll and transition. Pretty much Nash style.

Wow he has realy taking a step forward. He was playing at a high level in Houstan, I did not see many Rockets games but the highlights are nice. I am most impressed with his ball handling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9beelAZSY&feature=related

 

[slinslin]

lol, too bad the Suns posted a -8.9 per 36 with Robin and Nash together, Robin was also too stupid to even stay on the court as he averaged over 5 fouls per 36 in that situation.

So, if only Robin wasnt committing a foul every few minutes, stinking at rebounding and the Suns were not getting butchered like hogs while him and Nash were paired then... it would be a beautiful setup!

What does that have to do with offensive production?

DarenG claimed that only Gortat had that kind of offensive production with Nash.

Anyway I am done arguing this, everyone can see with their own 2 eyes that Marcin Gortat benefited more from Nash than anyone else on our team and will very likely be hit harder by his departure than anyone else.

I also do not believe 1 second that Goran Dragic will compensate this. From what I have seen Goran played great but totally different than Steve. He is not nearly the passer Steve is, he is way more of a scorer and creates offense for others by getting to the rim and kicking it out or dropping it off.

 

[Phrazbit]

Goran Dragic: Court Vision (Transition)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh2R5pKT3eM&feature=player_embedded

I think Dragic's best at pick and roll and transition. Pretty much Nash style.

Very excited about Dragic. The lone bright spot so far.

 

[Phrazbit]

What does that have to do with offensive production?

DarenG claimed that only Gortat had that kind of offensive production with Nash.

Anyway I am done arguing this, everyone can see with their own 2 eyes that Marcin Gortat benefited more from Nash than anyone else on our team and will very likely be hit harder by his departure than anyone else.

You're taking a small sample size and stretching it out over minutes that they never played together. The largest reflection that comes out of it is that Lopez was incapable of even staying on the court and the Suns stunk with him. You are clearly insinuating that Lopez is the better player, while every measure strong states otherwise.

And to be clear, I think we should move Gortat while his value is high. But not for garbage.

 

[Covert Rain]

What does that have to do with offensive production?

DarenG claimed that only Gortat had that kind of offensive production with Nash.

Anyway I am done arguing this, everyone can see with their own 2 eyes that Marcin Gortat benefited more from Nash than anyone else on our team and will very likely be hit harder by his departure than anyone else.

And you can't isolate an inflated per minute stats based on limited playing time as evidence of production. Look no further than Lopez's time when he was our starter playing starter minutes. Compare his point production and rebound production per game.

It's not even a contest.

 

[jagu]

Wow he has realy taking a step forward. He was playing at a high level in Houstan, I did not see many Rockets games but the highlights are nice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi9beelAZSY&feature=related

I actually watched Rockets games just to "scout" Dragic because I knew he was a free agent. He learned a lot of things from Nash and applied it on the court. He runs the transition like a pro, goes straight to the hoop with some trick moves, can change directions very fast which is difficult to guard. Long arms helps him finish at the rim over big defenders. Gets plenty of And 1's and fouls.

He also runs a pretty good P&R game which I think would be effective with Gortat and Frye (if Frye can make shots). I personally think the Suns fans will love Dragic, he's no longer that scared kid behind the legend of Nash. Oh yea, lets not forget his defense which is darn good for a guard. I have no clue why the Rockets would let Dragic and Lowry go for Lin. Lin isn't in the same league as either of those guards.

 

[slinslin]

And you can't isolate an inflated per minute stats based on limited playing time as evidence of production. Look no further than Lopez's time when he was our starter playing starter minutes. Compare his point production and rebound production per game.

It's not even a contest.

Yeah what about then?

He scored 30 points in one of his first starts, something that Gortat has so far never done with much more opportunities. Point is Lopez offensively is just as capable as a scorer.

You are throwing him under the bus based on your own personal sample size that you want to judge him on coming back from his back injury. And aren't Gortat fans the masters of small sample size? Or why is an article based on the first 15 games of the season brought up in defense of Gortat all the time? An article that relies on statistics that almost all have been reversed during the course of the season?

Are we also forgetting that Gortat has been terrible closing out the season and one of the or maybe THE biggest reason the Suns in the end did not make the playoffs? For the last 20 games or so Gortat has been the polish ballerina maybe, certainly not the polish hammer.