Should The Suns Trade Down?

[George O'Brien]

Last season the Suns traded their first for a second (Vroman) and a first for this year. I wonder if such a strategy migh make sense again.

What interests me is the incredible lack of consensus on players after the first few. Inside Hoops just released a Mock and their "bubble/2nd Round" group has a lot of guys picked to go as high as mid first round.

Marcus Williams, Charlie Villanueva, Marko Thomas, Ryan Gomes, Ike Diogu, Kennedy Winston, Andray Blatche (High School), Channing Frye, Ronny Turiaf, Dijon Thompson, Predrag Samardziski, Nate Robinson, Marko Tomas, Danny Granger, Adam Morrison, JJ Redick, Julius Hodge, Jose Juan Barea, Hassan Adams, Guillermo Diaz, Taj Gray, Sean Banks, Travis Diener.

Inside Hoops

 

[Phill11]

I'd LOVE to see Ike drafted. If we could trade down and get Ike and a future pick that'd be the trade of the year.

Ike is a project, but reminds me a lot of Emeka from the Bobcats. He'd be a great 6th-7th man.

PG- Nash
SG- Q
SF- Marion
PF- Amare
C- Hunter
6th- Ike
7th- J. Jackson
8th- McCarty

That's depth, that's even without JJ next year.

 

[pokerface]

I wonder if we could do a trade package to get a top three pick and go after a center.

Would JJ + Chicago pick (currently 18th) even be close to getting it done? I would think it would be in the ballpark...maybe juiced up with some second rounders and cash it could happen.

An advantage to dealing JJ for a top pick is the Suns dont have to cough up the big money for any kind of extensions or "matching offers" right now like the situation we are now faced with JJ. Getting a top 3 pick could get us a center we need that might be able to produce right away on a sufficient level yet like I said we dont have to pay super huge money for until later down the road.

 

[Joe Mama]

Awhile ago I was predicting that if Ike Diogu declared for the draft he would go at the end of the first round. I'm going to change that prediction now. I think he would be a mid to late lottery player right now. Once he kills some people in workouts he could even move into the top.

I'm not sure it's in his best interest to declare this season though. If all of these young guys declare this summer out of fear of an age limit it will mean more competition for him. On top of that if he waits until the next year the draft should be quite weak because of the new age limit and people declaring early this year.

I would love for the Phoenix Suns to get their hands on Ike.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

Awhile ago I was predicting that if Ike Diogu declared for the draft he would go at the end of the first round. I'm going to change that prediction now. I think he would be a mid to late lottery player right now. Once he kills some people in workouts he could even move into the top.

I'm not sure it's in his best interest to declare this season though. If all of these young guys declare this summer out of fear of an age limit it will mean more competition for him. On top of that if he waits until the next year the draft should be quite weak because of the new age limit and people declaring early this year.

I would love for the Phoenix Suns to get their hands on Ike.

Joe Mama

If ASU was in the NCAA's, I'd think he might have a big run. As it is, he is going to have to prove himself in workouts which is a totally different world. What makes Ike worth having is not something workouts show - his heart and guts.

 

[Joe Mama]

If ASU was in the NCAA's, I'd think he might have a big run. As it is, he is going to have to prove himself in workouts which is a totally different world. What makes Ike worth having is not something workouts show - his heart and guts.

he definitely has heart and guts, but I disagree with the idea that he won't show well in workouts. He will destroy most of the guys he goes up against in workouts. Diogu is used to scoring against triple team defense almost exclusively. The only thing he has going against him is his physical measurements/athleticism.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaz]

I really like Ike Diogu but the guy he reminds me of is Corliss Williamson.

In the NBA he is going to be a PF in a SF body.

 

[PhxGametime]

Some of the problems I have with Ike is he can't play Center in the NBA, so he'd be a 4 and in a Suns system, guys like Marvin Williams, Danny Granger, Hakim Warrick, Joey Graham, etc. - can defend 4's just as well and as much as Ike has a perimeter game and can drive on College centers, these Prospects fit skillball better.

I know a lot of fans would prefer to go big but Drafting Ike isn't really going that big. What I like about Ike is rebounding, shot-blocking, ability to score in post on back-up 4's in League, skillball skills (the area he's not as well as Prospects mentioned but gets by), and saving the best for last... Free Throws. Free Throws - PCT and MADE, IMO is what would set him apart from the top 4 and others mentioned.

Granger and Warrick can really shotblock, both those 2 and Williams can rebound (Graham is only at 6), all can shoot well enough, but none are even close to FTM what Ike can make. That's IMO what would get him Drafted high (if he does) - I'm not as high as others on him and being UofA fan really don't watch him much but look at his FT numbers:

8.0 FTM at .80 PCT - I just did notice a lot of his FT's were early on in season but his numbers kept up decent it appears. I don't want to look it up but isn't Amare Stoudemire around 7.5 at .75 PCT? Stoudemire is at the NBA Level but there isn't many College Prospects that I've checked stats of, close to Ike in FT's.



Ike can probably get by at C in stretches with the Suns at 6'9 he could be really effective there though. M Rose was effective at C against Suns though and just maybe next year all teams go small, hmmm.


I really don't want to think about Ike right now, that flagrant against Hassan looked pretty bad

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd LOVE to see Ike drafted. If we could trade down and get Ike and a future pick that'd be the trade of the year.

Ike is a project, but reminds me a lot of Emeka from the Bobcats. He'd be a great 6th-7th man.

QUOTE]


what part of their games do you find similar?

ike is short - emeka is tall
ike is not an explosive leaper or shot blocker - emeka is a superb leaper and shot blocker
ike is considered a polished offensive player - emeka is a developing offensive player

they are nothing alike.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ike can probably get by at C in stretches with the Suns at 6'9 he could be really effective there though. M Rose was effective at C against Suns though and just maybe next year all teams go small, hmmm.


I really don't want to think about Ike right now, that flagrant against Hassan looked pretty bad

he's listed at 6'8 which prolly makes him 6'7. he ain't a center. not even on the suns. but malik is a good comparison.

 

[Skkorpion]

I really like Ike Diogu but the guy he reminds me of is Corliss Williamson.

In the NBA he is going to be a PF in a SF body.

He's more like Charles Barkley than Corliss. Diogu can shoot 3s.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He's more like Charles Barkley than Corliss. Diogu can shoot 3s.

he doesn't have a quarter of the explosiveness that charles had.

 

[elindholm]

Rodney Rogers, maybe? I've never seen Diogu play, just trying to contribute to the discussion.

 

[Devision]

what part of their games do you find similar?

ike is short - emeka is tall
ike is not an explosive leaper or shot blocker - emeka is a superb leaper and shot blocker
ike is considered a polished offensive player - emeka is a developing offensive player

they are nothing alike.[/QUOTE]

Ike is bigger than you think
Ike offensive game is far superrior
Not a shot blocker? He only leads the Pac in blocks
Ike plays for ASU hence no respect if he was playing in the Big East or ACC he would be touted as a top 3 pick without a doubt!

 

[WizardOfAz]

I've never seen Diogu play,

That's because ASU is rarely on TV.

 

[elindholm]

That's because ASU is rarely on TV.

That may be part of the reason, but the main reason is that I have zero interest in any college sports.

 

[coloradosun]

Marvin Williams, Danny Granger, Hakim Warrick, Joey Graham, etc. - saving the best for last... Free Throws. Free Throws - PCT and MADE, IMO is what would set him apart from the top 4 and others mentioned.

Granger and Warrick can really shotblock, both those 2 and Williams can rebound (Graham is only at 6), all can shoot well enough, but none are even close to FTM what Ike can make.

8.0 FTM at .80 PCT

Bball

I'm going to have to challenge you on FT % and also shooting % between Ike, Graham and Simien

Ike
57% FG
80% FT
39% 3pt
Joey Graham
54% FG
89% FT
46% 3pt
Wayne Simien
55% FG
82% FT
29% 3pt.
Danny Granger
54% FG
76% FT
44% 3pt.

Both Graham and Simien broke the consecutive free throw record in the Big 12 this season, Graham did it first at 32 and Simien broke it a month later. If your evaluation includes the number of times a player gets to the line, then Graham may lack at this because he has two other teammates that spend time in the lane, Simien and Ike do not, which may affect the number of trips he takes.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

what part of their games do you find similar?

ike is short - emeka is tall
ike is not an explosive leaper or shot blocker - emeka is a superb leaper and shot blocker
ike is considered a polished offensive player - emeka is a developing offensive player

they are nothing alike.

Ike is bigger than you think
Ike offensive game is far superrior
Not a shot blocker? He only leads the Pac in blocks
Ike plays for ASU hence no respect if he was playing in the Big East or ACC he would be touted as a top 3 pick without a doubt![/QUOTE]

saying his offensive game is superior (which i agree with) is not supporting your argument that they're similar. he is nowhere NEAR okafor's class as a shotblocker, to argue otherwise just shows you watch asu hoops and little else. i watch a lot of asu. i live in the west. i root for az teams. i have no east coast bias. i KNOW ike is not a top 3 pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's because ASU is rarely on TV.

actually, living in socal i've gotten to see quite a few of his games this year and last.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Bball

I'm going to have to challenge you on FT % and also shooting % between Ike, Graham and Simien

oooh, challenge! stat fight! stat fight! it's like breakdance fighting only less sweat and more pocket protectors!

 

[coloradosun]

oooh, challenge! stat fight! stat fight! it's like breakdance fighting only less sweat and more pocket protectors!

I guess I did get a little off track since the topic of the thread "Should the Suns trade down".

NO

That is my answer, I think any of these 4 players will be available in the middle of the 1st.

Thanks for putting me back on subject.

 

[PhxGametime]

I meant more about FTM - Ike is at 8.0+, Graham at 4.5+ and that he can make FT's at a decent PCT. I'd like to see Simien, I hardly checked his stats this year because he's been injured all year. A true PF that makes 8.0 FT's at a .80 PCT clip is pretty good. Warrick makes a lot but he's more of a 3 that would play 4 on a Suns team and last time I checked, not as much as Ike.


I will check Simien...

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I meant more about FTM - Ike is at 8.0+, Graham at 4.5+ and that he can make FT's at a decent PCT. I'd like to see Simien, I hardly checked his stats this year because he's been injured all year. A true PF that makes 8.0 FT's at a .80 PCT clip is pretty good. Warrick makes a lot but he's more of a 3 that would play 4 on a Suns team and last time I checked, not as much as Ike.


I will check Simien...

simien's had injuries in the past, and even a short spate this year, but i he's certainly not "been injured all year" - i think he was the big 12 player of the year.

 

[PhxGametime]

Wayne Simien is around 5.5 FTM, Simien only had 4 3PTers made and only .6 blocks. Other than those stats and a bunch of injuries, Simien is pretty good.


Everyone knows I already like Graham but Ike should be near Leaderboard in FTM...

 

[PhxGametime]

Oops I think I meant to say I've hardly watched him all year because he's been injured a lot and I don't tape every single game of team played on Tv. I only have at least 2 to 3 games of most teams...