Shurmur emerging as a frontrunner for the Cardinals?

[Metcalf Rules]

The coordinators are going to be as much or more important than the HC. They are the ones doing the bulk of the coaching and they are the ones doing the majority of the scheming and game planning. I think a series of good hires here will really boost the team in a good direction. Getting Shurmur, for example as a head coach is okay, but I like it a lot more if guys like Chuck Pagano and McCoy or Cable come along. All of those guys are former head coaches, and would be a lot more prepared for the job than yet another lazy promote some nobody from within circle jerk.

I thought this article was interesting. I know very little about Wilkes, but if he can land DeFilipo I’d be happy.
https://www.revengeofthebirds.com/2...ady-interview-their-new-offensive-coordinator

 

[Cheesebeef]

me neither. I remember a whole lot of "wait and see"...

must say...I was one who was adamantly against Horton...still happy with that position.
where is he at now?

I am also against Bettcher...maybe I am just averse to hiring from within?? Perhaps the grass is always greener....

I’m with you. I think unless you’ve got a genius coordinator, when a run is over, you clean house and start fresh giving your HC. Chance to totally mold his staff in his image.

 

[Solar7]

Cardinals brass drafted Skelton, Lindley, Logan Thomas with input from Keim. Browns drafted Weeden with input from Shurmur

So pairing Keim and Shurmur to draft a first round QBOTF is the way to go? What facts can be used to derive this conclusion?

Kind of just playing devil's advocate here, because I'd like a QB at 15 too, but what if this is trusting Shurmur with Keenum?

If we could get the same play out of Keenum consistently for the next four years that he had this year, we'd be happy campers at QB.

 

[Arz101]

Kind of just playing devil's advocate here, because I'd like a QB at 15 too, but what if this is trusting Shurmur with Keenum?

If we could get the same play out of Keenum consistently for the next four years that he had this year, we'd be happy campers at QB.

I am all for Cousins, Keenum, Macarron, Bradford, Teddy etc etc. Just don't try to draft a QB in round 1 and waste 3-4 years.

Draft some one in 3rd round or beyond and develop while they play aforementioned QBs to give a chance. May be Cards will get lucky.

 

[Solar7]

I am all for Cousins, Keenum, Macarron, Bradford, Teddy etc etc. Just don't try to draft a QB in round 1 and waste 3-4 years.

Draft some one in 3rd round or beyond and develop while they play aforementioned QBs to give a chance. May be Cards will get lucky.

The reason I like Keenum, Bradford, and Teddy with a 1st round rookie is that they won't be hugely overpaid, and they all have warts that are going to force them to take shorter deals. If it's Cousins or McCarron, you're signing those guys to be the long term solution, so I agree, no 1st rounder.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I am all for Cousins, Keenum, Macarron, Bradford, Teddy etc etc. Just don't try to draft a QB in round 1 and waste 3-4 years.

Draft some one in 3rd round or beyond and develop while they play aforementioned QBs to give a chance. May be Cards will get lucky.

Look, there are no Warners or Palmers available right now, but there is always a nice amount of leftover corn on the Kolb for a reason which is not the solution. No offense, but your title of 'Arz101' is exactly the way this franchise has proceeded in trying to solve the quarterback position, trying to get lucky in later rounds and the chances of success reflect in Logan Thomas and Ryan Lindley because there are reasons a majority of those guy are late round picks because your chances of luck decreases as their perceived talent does in the draft. Acquiring a cast off QB and settling for 'oh well' in later rounds is not the solution, and it's something this franchise hopefully has learned. You go get 'the guy' in the draft with some faith. The other approach is like you hoping for success to find you instead of pursuing success. Quarterback is the most important position, and you cannot be passive while the rest of the league is leading a charge to acquire one

 

[Brak]

case-keenum-has-played-well-against-his-possible-next-team

 

[NJCardFan]

Look, there are no Warners or Palmers available right now, but there is always a nice amount of leftover corn on the Kolb for a reason which is not the solution. No offense, but your title of 'Arz101' is exactly the way this franchise has proceeded in trying to solve the quarterback position, trying to get lucky in later rounds and the chances of success reflect in Logan Thomas and Ryan Lindley because there are reasons a majority of those guy are late round picks because your chances of luck decreases as their perceived talent does in the draft. Acquiring a cast off QB and settling for 'oh well' in later rounds is not the solution, and it's something this franchise hopefully has learned. You go get 'the guy' in the draft with some faith. The other approach is like you hoping for success to find you instead of pursuing success. Quarterback is the most important position, and you cannot be passive while the rest of the league is leading a charge to acquire one

Well, we did take Matt Leenert in the 1st round.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

even at the time it was hard to ignore BAs resume. and he was just coming off coach of the year.. lots of people at the time wanted horton tho (lol) and were pissed when BA said he was gonna bring in bowles.

Pat ShurMEH
Head coaching record
Regular season: 10–23 (.303)

Pat Shurmur: Cleveland
Arians: Andrew Luck

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Brak]

If you look at 10-23 in Cleveland, and compare it to what they've done the last 2 years, that 10-23 mark sounds like a Lombardi-like achievement!

I really like what Pat has done with Keenum. I've seen a fair amount of his footage (as well as live play) this year and the dude is just balling out there, making plays all the time. He doesn't look like a 1-year wonder to me, or like an Alex Smith-type of game manager - he's making things happen and he looks like a strong leader on the field. If he/they can be had at a reasonable cost, I'm all in.

 

[Jetstream Green]

If you look at 10-23 in Cleveland, and compare it to what they've done the last 2 years, that 10-23 mark sounds like a Lombardi-like achievement!

I really like what Pat has done with Keenum. I've seen a fair amount of his footage (as well as live play) this year and the dude is just balling out there, making plays all the time. He doesn't look like a 1-year wonder to me, or like an Alex Smith-type of game manager - he's making things happen and he looks like a strong leader on the field. If he/they can be had at a reasonable cost, I'm all in.

Hey, I am all for bringing in a guy like Keenum for his price range to be a bridge for the rookie, but I still want us to make an effort to move up in the draft and get our guy... if Keenum works out as a franchise QB, then it's all gravy

 

[Solar7]

Look, there are no Warners or Palmers available right now, but there is always a nice amount of leftover corn on the Kolb for a reason which is not the solution. No offense, but your title of 'Arz101' is exactly the way this franchise has proceeded in trying to solve the quarterback position, trying to get lucky in later rounds and the chances of success reflect in Logan Thomas and Ryan Lindley because there are reasons a majority of those guy are late round picks because your chances of luck decreases as their perceived talent does in the draft. Acquiring a cast off QB and settling for 'oh well' in later rounds is not the solution, and it's something this franchise hopefully has learned. You go get 'the guy' in the draft with some faith. The other approach is like you hoping for success to find you instead of pursuing success. Quarterback is the most important position, and you cannot be passive while the rest of the league is leading a charge to acquire one

You and I will probably fight about this in every thread leading up to the draft... but very few teams have had success moving up in history. Most teams that have tried, have found themselves in absolute dire straits with no talent left to field a team when the guy inevitably busts.

You can say go get "the guy" all you want, but teams that need a quarterback of the future aren't just going to let you come in and pick "the guy" when you're sitting back at #15.

History and all of the evidence are against you with the exception of two guys who haven't even played two full NFL seasons yet.

 

[Jetstream Green]

You and I will probably fight about this in every thread leading up to the draft... but very few teams have had success moving up in history. Most teams that have tried, have found themselves in absolute dire straits with no talent left to field a team when the guy inevitably busts.

You can say go get "the guy" all you want, but teams that need a quarterback of the future aren't just going to let you come in and pick "the guy" when you're sitting back at #15.

History and all of the evidence are against you with the exception of two guys who haven't even played two full NFL seasons yet.

But our fight is epic Solar lol

 

[JeffGollin]

Hey, I am all for bringing in a guy like Keenum for his price range to be a bridge for the rookie, but I still want us to make an effort to move up in the draft and get our guy... if Keenum works out as a franchise QB, then it's all gravy

+1

 

[Brak]

Hey, I am all for bringing in a guy like Keenum for his price range to be a bridge for the rookie, but I still want us to make an effort to move up in the draft and get our guy... if Keenum works out as a franchise QB, then it's all gravy

I would be for this too - but I don't see a legit first rounder in this year's draft. The main guys drawing the most hype (Darnold, Rosen) are both stiffs IMHO. Might be able to find "the guy" in 2nd or later.

The only way I think it makes any sense to move up is for a "can't miss" prospect, like Luck. Even Wentz didn't fit this description, though he's proven since that he's the real deal and would have been quite worthy.

Speaking of Luck - if they could pry him away from Indy, and (BIG if) he can pass a physical, I'd be ALL for bringing him in.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I would be for this too - but I don't see a legit first rounder in this year's draft. The main guys drawing the most hype (Darnold, Rosen) are both stiffs IMHO. Might be able to find "the guy" in 2nd or later.

The only way I think it makes any sense to move up is for a "can't miss" prospect, like Luck. Even Wentz didn't fit this description, though he's proven since that he's the real deal and would have been quite worthy.

Speaking of Luck - if they could pry him away from Indy, and (BIG if) he can pass a physical, I'd be ALL for bringing him in.

I do because a legit first rounder at the QB position is now what used to be a developmental second rounder or higher. The college game with their fly by night approach to winning is the current state of the NFL of what they can run because the pros are stocked from the college ranks. Again, you damn right the traditional NFL mode of offense is the best (that is why it was developed) for all the speed and ability of a pro roster but the guys drafted now cannot assimilate into that formula from their college experience in a enough time where now the pros are about what have you done for me lately. I honestly believe this draft will have five QBs which will stick in this modern NFL and we have to get one

 

[azsouthendzone]

I’m curious as well. What did Fouhy’s wife say?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

After Arians retired she tweeted out that we all owed her husband an apology for doubting his sources earlier in the year and that for all breaking news - fouhy is the man!

 

[carrrnuttt]

After Arians retired she tweeted out that we all owed her husband an apology for doubting his sources earlier in the year and that for all breaking news - fouhy is the man!

I don't understand what was so bad about that. I had a similar reaction because I chose to give Fouhy my confidence when he broke the retirement news in October. Not that I completely believed Fouhy, but that I at least knew he was connected and straightforward enough to not put his name under something with a sketchy source. Even had Arians changed his mind later, I still believe that Fouhy heard what he heard from a credible source.

EDIT: ^ That is, without reading the way she put her tweet in context. I'm just commenting on the sentiment behind it. There are plenty of ways to say the right thing wrong.

 

[Buckybird]

case-keenum-has-played-well-against-his-possible-next-team

He played pretty darn poor most off his games outside of this season. Most here laughed & dogged the Cards for losing to him & a poor Lambs team.

I’m sorry but I’m very skeptical of him if the cards do indeed sign him after hiring his coach. Very skeptical

 

[Jetstream Green]

He played pretty darn poor most off his games outside of this season. Most here laughed & dogged the Cards for losing to him & a poor Lambs team.

I’m sorry but I’m very skeptical of him if the cards do indeed sign him after hiring his coach. Very skeptical

I am starting to see our situation in a nontraditional way because the college and pro game is anything but traditional now. You draft your starting QB, buffer that OL, and increase the playbook as the season progresses, and you expect to win while taking advantage of that rookie's entry salary instead of blowing jack on retreads who want a starter's salary, especially with a guy like DJ back there to support the youngin. There are always going to be growing pains regardless of having him sit... I say you start bridging the gap without a bridge and the Eagles, Rams and Texans have shown you can

 

[Solar7]

the Eagles, Rams and Texans have shown you can

1. ACL tear, let's see if he recovers
2. Todd Gurley (Goff's performance was of course very good but I'm not annointing anyone on one season)
3. 2 ACL tears, let's see if he recovers

I need more than one year (or a few games) out of any of these guys before I start to call them franchise quarterbacks or say that the teams made the right decisions (although the move up for Watson was not very extreme and I'd be fine with that kind of move).

 

[Jetstream Green]

1. ACL tear, let's see if he recovers
2. Todd Gurley (Goff's performance was of course very good but I'm not annointing anyone on one season)
3. 2 ACL tears, let's see if he recovers

I need more than one year (or a few games) out of any of these guys before I start to call them franchise quarterbacks or say that the teams made the right decisions (although the move up for Watson was not very extreme and I'd be fine with that kind of move).

1) Roethlisberger
2) Dalton
3) Ryan
4) Wilson

All rookie QBs which led their team to the playoffs, who are still franchise QBs for their respective team, but I will not include Luck who led his team to the playoffs his rookie year (since he was one of those few can't miss prospects) or Griffin (who did the same because he did not have continued success). Then you have guys like Cam Newton who still did well but we'll leave him off the list since he did not reach the playoffs his rookie year. All rookie QBs which led their team to the playoffs, who are still franchise QBs for their respective teams

 

[THESMEL]

Quarterbacks are overrated a great qb has the same needs as a good QB by the team that surrounds him, brady, brees, Roethlisberger never won without a run game or defense, most ran as much as they passed in the years that actually won the Super Bowl, with good defenses

Warning the football gods says you can not verify this on sportscenter- they idolize the pass game.

 

[Buckybird]

Quarterbacks are overrated a great qb has the same needs as a good QB by the team that surrounds him, brady, brees, Roethlisberger never won without a run game or defense, most ran as much as they passed in the years that actually won the Super Bowl, with good defenses

Warning the football gods says you can not verify this on sportscenter- they idolize the pass game.

How did the Pats come back down 28-3 last year? How did the Cards come come back & take the lead in SB 43?

Great QBs aren’t overrated except on the Thesmel scale. Points are scored in the nfl passing game!!!

Running somewhat sets up some teams passing game & runs out the clock with the lead, but show me a team without a great QB & chances are they will not win the Super Bowl in this era!!!

 

[Solar7]

1) Roethlisberger
2) Dalton
3) Ryan
4) Wilson

All rookie QBs which led their team to the playoffs, who are still franchise QBs for their respective team, but I will not include Luck who led his team to the playoffs his rookie year (since he was one of those few can't miss prospects) or Griffin (who did the same because he did not have continued success). Then you have guys like Cam Newton who still did well but we'll leave him off the list since he did not reach the playoffs his rookie year. All rookie QBs which led their team to the playoffs, who are still franchise QBs for their respective teams

1. Had two bridge QBs (Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch), started because of unexpected injury. Team didn't trade up for him, stayed put and selected him where he fell.
2. Was a 2nd round pick, team didn't trade up for him, was the fifth QB selected. Also, bridge quarterback on the roster (Gradkowski).
3. Didn't trade up for him. Selected him third overall.
4. Third round pick. And they didn't trade up for him. They had also just signed a bridge QB/starter (Matt Flynn). Wilson just beat him out.

My point isn't "don't draft a QB," and isn't even "don't start a rookie," but is "don't trade your entire draft to reach for the third guy." There's not a piece of me that will be mad if the Cardinals select a QB at 15, or even trade up 3-5 spots to do it. I won't be mad if we sign one of the Vikings QBs and they lose the battle in camp to the rookie. Just don't pull a Redskins RG3 trade.

Regardless of all of this, we need to sign at least some QBs before the draft, because we will have minicamps before the draft and have no one on the roster to throw the ball at all.