Shurmur emerging as a frontrunner for the Cardinals?

[oaken1]

1. Had two bridge QBs (Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch), started because of unexpected injury. Team didn't trade up for him, stayed put and selected him where he fell.
2. Was a 2nd round pick, team didn't trade up for him, was the fifth QB selected. Also, bridge quarterback on the roster (Gradkowski).
3. Didn't trade up for him. Selected him third overall.
4. Third round pick. And they didn't trade up for him. They had also just signed a bridge QB/starter (Matt Flynn). Wilson just beat him out.

My point isn't "don't draft a QB," and isn't even "don't start a rookie," but is "don't trade your entire draft to reach for the third guy." There's not a piece of me that will be mad if the Cardinals select a QB at 15, or even trade up 3-5 spots to do it. I won't be mad if we sign one of the Vikings QBs and they lose the battle in camp to the rookie. Just don't pull a Redskins RG3 trade.

Regardless of all of this, we need to sign at least some QBs before the draft, because we will have minicamps before the draft and have no one on the roster to throw the ball at all.

question,...for clarity.

exactly whose third guy? Mel Kipers third guy? Todd McShay?

what if... the Cardinals have Baker Mayfield listed as their top dog cant miss we gotta have him QB prospect...
then Darnold and Rosen go 1 and 2??

At that point Indy calls and offers us a deal for the #3 pick........we all know that deal is expensive...

but we wouldnt be getting the third guy.... we would be getting our #1 guy

"our guy" might be the third QB taken... but that doesnt make him the third guy,... just the third guy picked

So...is it acceptable to make that trade when the QB available is your very own cant miss top dog gotta have him QB?

 

[Southpaw]

Saints beat Vikings and Shurmur signs on the dotted line.

 

[Solar7]

question,...for clarity.

exactly whose third guy? Mel Kipers third guy? Todd McShay?

what if... the Cardinals have Baker Mayfield listed as their top dog cant miss we gotta have him QB prospect...
then Darnold and Rosen go 1 and 2??

At that point Indy calls and offers us a deal for the #3 pick........we all know that deal is expensive...

but we wouldnt be getting the third guy.... we would be getting our #1 guy

"our guy" might be the third QB taken... but that doesnt make him the third guy,... just the third guy picked

So...is it acceptable to make that trade when the QB available is your very own cant miss top dog gotta have him QB?

When I say third guy, I literally mean third QB taken. I'm ignoring who may or may not be "our guy." Plenty of teams have whiffed on their guy. But for our "can't miss top dog gotta have him QB" to be available at 3 would have to mean that two other teams completely botched their evaluation, or there are three can't miss prospects at the top of the draft that the Colts don't want for some reason.

 

[oaken1]

When I say third guy, I literally mean third QB taken. I'm ignoring who may or may not be "our guy." Plenty of teams have whiffed on their guy. But for our "can't miss top dog gotta have him QB" to be available at 3 would have to mean that two other teams completely botched their evaluation, or there are three can't miss prospects at the top of the draft that the Colts don't want for some reason.

Josh Rosen will go high because he is the most Pro ready...

Sam Darnold will go high because he is the best natural passer and has the best measurables.

Baker Mayfield will go high because, simply put...he wins games.


I have always favored Darnold... mostly because he is a Prototype NFL QB who has a short memory and a huge set of balls when passing...

but Baker Mayfield is like a Sam Darnold mini me, with a turbo booster... he makes all the throws Sam makes but has the "IT" factor when it comes to leading his team...

there is a fairly significant chance that all three of these guys will have successful careers in the NFL... they have that talent.
as to which of them is the best prospect, well, that all depends on your team really...
some light comparisons..

Josh Rosen is kinda like a dash of Alex Smith with a cup of Aaron Rodgers.... gonna make lots of checkdown throws, but aint scared to chuck it deep either,..and has wheels to get loose if he chooses.

Sam Darnold... is basically Carson Palmer 2.0... this could be considered praise or derogatory really,lol... he is the safe pick, has the highest floor but not quite as high a ceiling IMO

Baker Mayfield is Doug Flutie from the waist down and Drew Brees from the waist up with an injection of Brett Favres heart... has excellent mobility but will mostly just use it to escape the pocket so he can hurl 40 yards downfield

any one of these guys is worth the #1 overall pick... Rosen and Darnold because they will be solid starters for the next 10-15 years... Mayfield because you want to take a chance at getting the next electrifying hall of fame QB in the making...a bit more risk with Baker but the potential rewards make him worth that.


There is no clear cut best QB... it all depends on the team... BA would have loved to have Darnold... SK probably prefers Mayfield.

Cleveland will probably pick Sam Darnold because he is the safest pick.

NY may not select a QB just yet... but they will probably take Rosen.

Indy doesnt need a QB... they expect Luck back and they just traded picks to get Jacoby Brissett
This is the window right here... the #3, and clevelands #4


Funny part is I have seen mocks that have either Darnold or Mayfield falling to us at #15.... either one is an absolute steal at that point

 

[JeffGollin]

Saints beat Vikings and Shurmur signs on the dotted line.

Who 'dat (with his ear glued to the telephone)?

Who 'dat?

 

[Jetstream Green]

1. Had two bridge QBs (Tommy Maddox and Charlie Batch), started because of unexpected injury. Team didn't trade up for him, stayed put and selected him where he fell.
2. Was a 2nd round pick, team didn't trade up for him, was the fifth QB selected. Also, bridge quarterback on the roster (Gradkowski).
3. Didn't trade up for him. Selected him third overall.
4. Third round pick. And they didn't trade up for him. They had also just signed a bridge QB/starter (Matt Flynn). Wilson just beat him out.

My point isn't "don't draft a QB," and isn't even "don't start a rookie," but is "don't trade your entire draft to reach for the third guy." There's not a piece of me that will be mad if the Cardinals select a QB at 15, or even trade up 3-5 spots to do it. I won't be mad if we sign one of the Vikings QBs and they lose the battle in camp to the rookie. Just don't pull a Redskins RG3 trade.

Regardless of all of this, we need to sign at least some QBs before the draft, because we will have minicamps before the draft and have no one on the roster to throw the ball at all.

Let me explain this to you. A quarterback has a value and you are constructing this architecture called a team built to win. You are not starting from scratch and you are allowed to take from a source to complete what you are building. The quarterback is the keystone of this architecture and currently you do not have one. Let's assign the value of the quarterback as ten. It does not matter how you arrive at ten for the marble from the quarry (the draft being a source not yet used by another). Add, subtract, multiple or divide, ten is still going to be ten and you get what you desire. Trade up or trade back, ten is ten, and the guy's value will not change. This architecture is fluid, meaning you can get your keystone and still take from other buildings for the foundation, being free agency for the OL for example. Yes, you can get a keystone from another building which has been discarded but there is a reason someone throws away a keystone. Now let's say there is no exact way to measure marble from the quarry, but you know if you get more than ten or a tad less it will still work, so you rely on your master builder to equate the particulars, especially when you look at the debris from the other buildings, which though you have a fair idea of their value which might not have enough value to support the tension, you can still see cracks which others could not fix... I say we go to the quarry and subtract or add to get our keystone. Trading up to acquire a guy does not change his value Solar

 

[oaken1]

lol...

Let me explain this to you. A quarterback has a value and you are constructing this architecture called a team built to win. You are not starting from scratch and you are allowed to take from a source to complete what you are building. The quarterback is the keystone of this architecture and currently you do not have one. Let's assign the value of the quarterback as ten. It does not matter how you arrive at ten for the marble from the quarry (the draft being a source not yet used by another). Add, subtract, multiple or divide, ten is still going to be ten and you get what you desire. Trade up or trade back, ten is ten, and the guy's value will not change. This architecture is fluid, meaning you can get your keystone and still take from other buildings for the foundation, being free agency for the OL for example. Yes, you can get a keystone from another building which has been discarded but there is a reason someone throws away a keystone. Now let's say there is no exact way to measure marble from the quarry, but you know if you get more than ten or a tad less it will still work, so you rely on your master builder to equate the particulars, especially when you look at the debris from the other buildings, which though you have a fair idea of their value which might not have enough value to support the tension, you can still see cracks which others could not fix... I say we go to the quarry and subtract or add to get our keystone. Trading up to acquire a guy does not change his value Solar

LOL excellent

Nor does it change the value of the blue marble keystone we covet just because those who came to the quarry before us chose a red marble keystone or traditional gray... the blue marble keystone still maintains its own intrinsic value.

 

[Solar7]

Josh Rosen will go high because he is the most Pro ready...

Sam Darnold will go high because he is the best natural passer and has the best measurables.

Baker Mayfield will go high because, simply put...he wins games.


I have always favored Darnold... mostly because he is a Prototype NFL QB who has a short memory and a huge set of balls when passing...

but Baker Mayfield is like a Sam Darnold mini me, with a turbo booster... he makes all the throws Sam makes but has the "IT" factor when it comes to leading his team...

there is a fairly significant chance that all three of these guys will have successful careers in the NFL... they have that talent.
as to which of them is the best prospect, well, that all depends on your team really...
some light comparisons..

Josh Rosen is kinda like a dash of Alex Smith with a cup of Aaron Rodgers.... gonna make lots of checkdown throws, but aint scared to chuck it deep either,..and has wheels to get loose if he chooses.

Sam Darnold... is basically Carson Palmer 2.0... this could be considered praise or derogatory really,lol... he is the safe pick, has the highest floor but not quite as high a ceiling IMO

Baker Mayfield is Doug Flutie from the waist down and Drew Brees from the waist up with an injection of Brett Favres heart... has excellent mobility but will mostly just use it to escape the pocket so he can hurl 40 yards downfield

any one of these guys is worth the #1 overall pick... Rosen and Darnold because they will be solid starters for the next 10-15 years... Mayfield because you want to take a chance at getting the next electrifying hall of fame QB in the making...a bit more risk with Baker but the potential rewards make him worth that.


There is no clear cut best QB... it all depends on the team... BA would have loved to have Darnold... SK probably prefers Mayfield.

Cleveland will probably pick Sam Darnold because he is the safest pick.

NY may not select a QB just yet... but they will probably take Rosen.

Indy doesnt need a QB... they expect Luck back and they just traded picks to get Jacoby Brissett
This is the window right here... the #3, and clevelands #4


Funny part is I have seen mocks that have either Darnold or Mayfield falling to us at #15.... either one is an absolute steal at that point

There's going to be a million different opinions that come out about these QBs in the coming months, so for the sake of my arguments I'm trying not to plant my flag for any particular guy. I do think Darnold and Rosen will eventually go 1 & 2 between them, and that Mayfield's character issues will drop him a little bit, but I still think three - possibly four - QBs go in the top 10.

Only one person has said they expect Luck back, their owner, and he's a wackjob. Coaches have been turning down the opportunity to interview because of the uncertainty there. If you're right and all three of these guys are blue chip players, why would the Colts pass on him? Or why would they trade back to #15 instead of a couple spots back to the Broncos or Jets, who are just as desperate as us? We'll pay an insane premium to outbid those two teams for a blue chip player.

Let me explain this to you. A quarterback has a value and you are constructing this architecture called a team built to win. You are not starting from scratch and you are allowed to take from a source to complete what you are building. The quarterback is the keystone of this architecture and currently you do not have one. Let's assign the value of the quarterback as ten. It does not matter how you arrive at ten for the marble from the quarry (the draft being a source not yet used by another). Add, subtract, multiple or divide, ten is still going to be ten and you get what you desire. Trade up or trade back, ten is ten, and the guy's value will not change. This architecture is fluid, meaning you can get your keystone and still take from other buildings for the foundation, being free agency for the OL for example. Yes, you can get a keystone from another building which has been discarded but there is a reason someone throws away a keystone. Now let's say there is no exact way to measure marble from the quarry, but you know if you get more than ten or a tad less it will still work, so you rely on your master builder to equate the particulars, especially when you look at the debris from the other buildings, which though you have a fair idea of their value which might not have enough value to support the tension, you can still see cracks which others could not fix... I say we go to the quarry and subtract or add to get our keystone. Trading up to acquire a guy does not change his value Solar

That's a long winded analogy that doesn't quite add up. Because you can guarantee you're getting keystone marble that's worth about "ten" - but the quarterback you draft might self destruct and ruin your "building." If you've got no trips left to the quarry, you don't have a keystone or even any way to replace old deteriorating building materials.

Analogies aside, you're looking for a miracle to happen at quarterback. You feel like if we dream hard enough, it will happen. "Our guy" is likely to be 31 other teams' "guy." You make due with the cards you're dealt.

 

[Jetstream Green]

There's going to be a million different opinions that come out about these QBs in the coming months, so for the sake of my arguments I'm trying not to plant my flag for any particular guy. I do think Darnold and Rosen will eventually go 1 & 2 between them, and that Mayfield's character issues will drop him a little bit, but I still think three - possibly four - QBs go in the top 10.

Only one person has said they expect Luck back, their owner, and he's a wackjob. Coaches have been turning down the opportunity to interview because of the uncertainty there. If you're right and all three of these guys are blue chip players, why would the Colts pass on him? Or why would they trade back to #15 instead of a couple spots back to the Broncos or Jets, who are just as desperate as us? We'll pay an insane premium to outbid those two teams for a blue chip player.



That's a long winded analogy that doesn't quite add up. Because you can guarantee you're getting keystone marble that's worth about "ten" - but the quarterback you draft might self destruct and ruin your "building." If you've got no trips left to the quarry, you don't have a keystone or even any way to replace old deteriorating building materials.

Analogies aside, you're looking for a miracle to happen at quarterback. You feel like if we dream hard enough, it will happen. "Our guy" is likely to be 31 other teams' "guy." You make due with the cards you're dealt.

You have a mindset of settling for what comes your way and not pursuing and yes, those thirty one other teams have interests too and want to win and they will be more than happy for you to have concrete shoes and just sit there. I have another analogy for you (though not as long winded, since the combination of sentences for a paragraph now is considered a novel by the current comprehension skills of society), this one is about passion, since we have a passion for football. If you want an attractive girl, do use just say "screw it, other guys want her too and why try". Again, I get your caution Solar but it's like your sitting in a fox hole and wanting someone else to fire for you for fear of wasting bullets while I am saying get out of the damn fox hole and risk getting closer to make the bullets count because you can't take the hill just sitting there... yes, even another analogy lol

 

[WisconsinCard]

brady, brees, Roethlisberger never won without a run game or defense

Fake News

 

[WisconsinCard]

You have a mindset of settling for what comes your way and not pursuing and yes, those thirty one other teams have interests too and want to win and they will be more than happy for you to have concrete shoes and just sit there. I have another analogy for you (though not as long winded, since the combination of sentences for a paragraph now is considered a novel by the current comprehension skills of society), this one is about passion, since we have a passion for football. If you want an attractive girl, do use just say "screw it, other guys want her too and why try". Again, I get your caution Solar but it's like your sitting in a fox hole and wanting someone else to fire for you for fear of wasting bullets while I am saying get out of the damn fox hole and risk getting closer to make the bullets count because you can't take the hill just sitting there... yes, even another analogy lol

Analogies aside, this is easier said than done. I mean obviously this would have to be a draft day trade, so many things have to line up. First and foremost "your dude" has to be there, you have to have a dance partner, and then you have to have the assets they covet.

Now what happens if the QB you want goes first overall, and that team is not willing to trade that pick? Do you still trade up to take the next dude on your list? I don't, I mean I have to feel like that the risk of trading assets is worth the player taken.

 

[oaken1]

Analogies aside, this is easier said than done. I mean obviously this would have to be a draft day trade, so many things have to line up. First and foremost "your dude" has to be there, you have to have a dance partner, and then you have to have the assets they covet.

Now what happens if the QB you want goes first overall, and that team is not willing to trade that pick? Do you still trade up to take the next dude on your list? I don't, I mean I have to feel like that the risk of trading assets is worth the player taken.

its always about risk Vs reward... but quarterbacks are hard to come by.
The right QB changes how your team marks time.... we have the Denny Green era,... the Whiz era,...the BASK era....
Indy has the Manning Era, Denver has the Elway Era, NE has the Brady era....

a team like us is always looking,...trying to find a QB that makes us "competitive"

a team like Green Bay is always looking...trying to find that final piece to bring them another championship...

but yeah...if the guy you covet is gone...there aint no point in making the trade...you dont invest huge assets just to get "A" guy...we can put an ad out in the sporting news for that

 

[Solar7]

You have a mindset of settling for what comes your way and not pursuing and yes, those thirty one other teams have interests too and want to win and they will be more than happy for you to have concrete shoes and just sit there. I have another analogy for you (though not as long winded, since the combination of sentences for a paragraph now is considered a novel by the current comprehension skills of society), this one is about passion, since we have a passion for football. If you want an attractive girl, do use just say "screw it, other guys want her too and why try". Again, I get your caution Solar but it's like your sitting in a fox hole and wanting someone else to fire for you for fear of wasting bullets while I am saying get out of the damn fox hole and risk getting closer to make the bullets count because you can't take the hill just sitting there... yes, even another analogy lol

Guy 1 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

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Guy 2 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images

Girl 3 is available but you have to fight every other guy in the bar for her, and spend all night buying her drinks.

You must be registered for see images attach

Not the same. Not worth moving up for.

(Also just making this thread prettier to look at)

 

[wit3card]

Guy 1 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images attach

Guy 2 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images

Girl 3 is available but you have to fight every other guy in the bar for her, and spend all night buying her drinks.

You must be registered for see images attach

Not the same. Not worth moving up for.

(Also just making this thread prettier to look at)

She might be worth it, but who says she doesn't go with someone else at the end of the night? Or give you a cold shoulder?

Therefor, if you think the next coming is on your way than trade up, but if you are wrong, your Franchise is doomed. Washington for example is missing talent to all the sides and might loose Cousins because of it. Cleveland seems a better spot for a QB than Washington, that says it all.

 

[WisconsinCard]

its always about risk Vs reward... but quarterbacks are hard to come by.
The right QB changes how your team marks time.... we have the Denny Green era,... the Whiz era,...the BASK era....
Indy has the Manning Era, Denver has the Elway Era, NE has the Brady era....

a team like us is always looking,...trying to find a QB that makes us "competitive"

a team like Green Bay is always looking...trying to find that final piece to bring them another championship...

but yeah...if the guy you covet is gone...there aint no point in making the trade...you dont invest huge assets just to get "A" guy...we can put an ad out in the sporting news for that

My point is some are saying this is the year to sacrifice the future and get our QB, and it's just not that easy. By all reports they tried to move up last year (for possibly a QB), but it didn't work out. Like I said before it takes two to tango.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Guy 1 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images attach

Guy 2 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images

Girl 3 is available but you have to fight every other guy in the bar for her, and spend all night buying her drinks.

You must be registered for see images attach

Not the same. Not worth moving up for.

(Also just making this thread prettier to look at)

Very pretty... almost made me agree with you

 

[Arz101]

More and more it looks like Shurmur is taking cardinals to the same woodshed Andy Reid used last time.

 

[wa52lz]

More and more it looks like Shurmur is taking cardinals to the same woodshed Andy Reid used last time.

How so we can't even make him and offer until Minn is out of the playoffs?

Sent from my Moto G Play using Tapatalk

 

[devilalum]

Guy 1 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images attach

Guy 2 brings a girl on a date to the bar. She’s already with him.

You must be registered for see images

Girl 3 is available but you have to fight every other guy in the bar for her, and spend all night buying her drinks.

You must be registered for see images attach

Not the same. Not worth moving up for.

(Also just making this thread prettier to look at)

Guy 1
Guy 2
Girl 1


Sent from the International Space Station using Tapatalk

 

[Solar7]

Guy 1
Guy 2
Girl 1


Sent from the International Space Station using Tapatalk

I don’t understand this. Maybe I’m drunk.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I don’t understand this. Maybe I’m drunk.

I just hope 'devilalum' is not Keim's alias

 

[slanidrac16]

I have a friend who’s sister lives two doors down from the Shurmur family. She saw one of Pat’s kids playing outside with a Cardinal stocking cap. Remember it’s cold in Minnesota so it must be true. Why would he be wearing a Cardinal stocking cap? Shurmur is our new HC!

 

[Arz101]

I have a freind who’s sister lives two doors down from the Shurmur family. She saw one of Pat’s kids playing outside with a Cardinal stocking cap. Remember it’s cold in Minnesota so it must be true. Why would he be wearing a Cardinal stocking cap? Shurmur is our new HC!

This is good!

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

I have a freind who’s sister lives two doors down from the Shurmur family. She saw one of Pat’s kids playing outside with a Cardinal stocking cap. Remember it’s cold in Minnesota so it must be true. Why would he be wearing a Cardinal stocking cap? Shurmur is our new HC!

Would be awesome if true!

 

[Buckybird]

I have a freind who’s sister lives two doors down from the Shurmur family. She saw one of Pat’s kids playing outside with a Cardinal stocking cap. Remember it’s cold in Minnesota so it must be true. Why would he be wearing a Cardinal stocking cap? Shurmur is our new HC!

Thx for the info!

Now we know he won’t be hired by Big Red. lol

You guys never learn...it’s the jinx that keeps on giving