Simmons on the Suns

[scoutmasterdave]

From Bill Simmons' most recent article...

Nash and 23 small forwards? Sign me up! I'm fascinated to see whether Nash can reignite the career of Hedo Turkoglu, who mailed in last season and might be unredeemable. Either way, so long to the Fantastic Chemistry Suns from last season (as well as their title hopes). And by the way, if you're shelling out $81 million for Josh Childress, Channing Frye and Hakim Warrick, you may as well shell out $100 million for Amare. You know how I know this? Because if Phoenix offered Childress, Frye and Warrick for Amare, the Knicks would hang up on them. This league drives me crazy sometimes.

When it's laid out like that, methinks I'd rather have Amare too.

 

[Mainstreet]

When it's laid out like that, methinks I'd rather have Amare too.

If Amare stays healthy for 5 years then a case can be made the Suns should have signed Amare to 100M dollar contract. The problem is the Suns could not afford to make this gamble and lose without being able to insure Amare. The Suns chose not to put all their eggs in one basket. However, a case can be made that the Suns spent 81M unwisely.

 

[elindholm]

You know how I know this? Because if Phoenix offered Childress, Frye and Warrick for Amare, the Knicks would hang up on them.

Sure, until Stoudemire goes down with another major injury. Once that happens, it's the Knicks who make the call, and the Suns who hang up.

Besides, it's a false comparison. As the Heat will demonstrate this season, you can't win with only max-contract players. Frye was an overpayment, as everyone on this board has already conceded, but Warrick and probably Childress were good value signings.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Sure, until Stoudemire goes down with another major injury. Once that happens, it's the Knicks who make the call, and the Suns who hang up.

Besides, it's a false comparison. As the Heat will demonstrate this season, you can't win with only max-contract players. Frye was an overpayment, as everyone on this board has already conceded, but Warrick and probably Childress were good value signings.

Well, everyone except that Steve guy. He's still sticking to his guns, convinced Frye is worth his salary.

Steve

 

[Bufalay]

Sure, until Stoudemire goes down with another major injury. Once that happens, it's the Knicks who make the call, and the Suns who hang up.

Besides, it's a false comparison. As the Heat will demonstrate this season, you can't win with only max-contract players. Frye was an overpayment, as everyone on this board has already conceded, but Warrick and probably Childress were good value signings.

Role players can only be good value signings if you already have a good team.

 

[dodie53]

nash will reignite hedo's career,
count on it.

 

[mojorizen7]

so long to the Fantastic Chemistry Suns from last season

I'm not buying this for a second. Nash breeds chemistry with his unselfish,fun n gun style. The last time we saw chemistry problems w/this team and w/Nash on the roster was with Shaq & his ego demanding the ball in the post. No problems here IMO.

Role players can only be good value signings if you already have a good team.

You're so right. Unless the plan is to eventually bring in a few legit studs at some point....i think this was Kerr's plan.

 

[Chaplin]

His argument is a little faulty--he implies that it's Warrick/Frye/Childress vs. Amare that determines our team vs. last year's team. Maybe he doesn't remember that Channing Frye was actually ON our team last year. So that analogy doesn't work correctly. If he used Warrick/Hedo/Childress, it would make more sense.

 

[SunsTzu]

His argument is a little faulty--he implies that it's Warrick/Frye/Childress vs. Amare that determines our team vs. last year's team. Maybe he doesn't remember that Channing Frye was actually ON our team last year. So that analogy doesn't work correctly. If he used Warrick/Hedo/Childress, it would make more sense.

His argument was all the money the Suns were willing to spend on those players but weren't willing to spend on Amare. Suns didn't really spend much on Hedo since most of his contract was offset but unloading Barbosa.

His logic is faulty because the Suns were willing to pay Amare, they just wanted to protect themselves in case of injury.

 

[Chaplin]

His argument was all the money the Suns were willing to spend on those players but weren't willing to spend on Amare. Suns didn't really spend much on Hedo since most of his contract was offset but unloading Barbosa.

His wording doesn't jive with it though.

 

[SunsTzu]

His wording doesn't jive with it though.

I guess we're reading it differently because that's exactly how I took it.

And by the way, if you're shelling out $81 million for Josh Childress, Channing Frye and Hakim Warrick, you may as well shell out $100 million for Amare.

He doesn't seem to imply those guys will replace Amare, just questioning why'd you pay them but not Amare.

 

[BC867]

He doesn't seem to imply those guys will replace Amare, just questioning why'd you pay them but not Amare.

In every consideration of Amare, we should remember that, more than defense or rebounding, he is likely to miss a lot of time in the future, just as he did here.

With his capabilities diminishing each time his body betrays him.

 

[splitsecond]

screw simmons, his last comments on the nfcw pretty much prove how myopic his viewpoint is, brady 4 lyfe!

 

[Chris_Sanders]

screw simmons, his last comments on the nfcw pretty much prove how myopic his viewpoint is, brady 4 lyfe!

Yeah I used to be a big fan, but his schtick got old.

 

[Chaz]

I have a nagging thought in the back of my mind that not giving up a big contract on a star player because you are expecting him to be hurt reminds me of Dallas and Steve Nash.

Granted, Nash didn't have the injury history that Amare does but still.

Logically I agree with the decision and contract offer but something won't let me get comfortable with it. Probably because I would never wish for someone to get hurt so we could justify the decision.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Yeah I used to be a big fan, but his schtick got old.

I still get his podcasts during the NFL season but I only routinely listen to the one he does with Cousin Sal. Too much Simmons can wear you down but in limited doses I still enjoy the guy (quite a bit, actually).

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

I would be willing to guess that Amare will actually probably be fine this year and maybe next year, but that 3rd year could be the year that he misses extended time. I also have doubts he'll make it through the entire length of his contract.

It's pretty amazing how short-sighted sports reporters and critics are.

 

[Covert Rain]

I would be willing to guess that Amare will actually probably be fine this year and maybe next year, but that 3rd year could be the year that he misses extended time. I also have doubts he'll make it through the entire length of his contract.

It's pretty amazing how short-sighted sports reporters and critics are.

People are also assuming Amare's knee won't last which is speculative at best. There are others athletes with similar surgeries that are holding up just fine. I think Amare could surprise everyone with the knee staying healthy. I don't blame the Suns for wanting some insurance on the knee though.

 

[SunsTzu]

I think the fact his knees couldn't be insured factor in as much or more than the threat of him missing time due to injury. Obviously no one wants to give a large contract to someone they fear will miss time, but being on the hook for the entire amount was even more worrisome to the team.

I also agree there are a lot of similarities with how Nash left Dallas.

 

[Mulli]

I still get his podcasts during the NFL season but I only routinely listen to the one he does with Cousin Sal. Too much Simmons can wear you down but in limited doses I still enjoy the guy (quite a bit, actually).

Steve

Hey StevenCal, we like and agree on far too many things. Are you my brother or something?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Hey StevenCal, we like and agree on far too many things. Are you my brother or something?

Are you really good looking and smart? I'm not, but I'm pretty sure one of my brothers was.

Steve

 

[elindholm]

To be honest I wouldn't have been happy about giving Stoudemire $100M/5yr even if his health could be 100% assured. That kind of money should be reserved for someone who is a long-term difference-maker, and Stoudemire isn't. The Knicks are going to be regretting that contract one way or another, especially after the new CBA tightens budgets across the league.

I view the Turkoglu acquisition as a way to get some value out of Barbosa, who had outlived his usefulness to the Suns. Turkoglu's contract is a bigger liability than Barbosa's, but he'll probably turn out to be a more productive player, even if he's perpetually disappointing.

 

[AzStevenCal]

To be honest I wouldn't have been happy about giving Stoudemire $100M/5yr even if his health could be 100% assured. That kind of money should be reserved for someone who is a long-term difference-maker, and Stoudemire isn't. The Knicks are going to be regretting that contract one way or another, especially after the new CBA tightens budgets across the league.

I view the Turkoglu acquisition as a way to get some value out of Barbosa, who had outlived his usefulness to the Suns. Turkoglu's contract is a bigger liability than Barbosa's, but he'll probably turn out to be a more productive player, even if he's perpetually disappointing.

I'll always be disappointed that Amare didn't become the well rounded player he could have but I'd have jumped at that deal in a heartbeat. Once you get past the top few players the blemishes become more obvious. There just aren't that many big guys that I'd take over Amare. It's possible that the next CBA makes his contract untenable but it's a risk I'd have to take.

Steve

 

[Chaplin]

I'll always be disappointed that Amare didn't become the well rounded player he could have but I'd have jumped at that deal in a heartbeat. Once you get past the top few players the blemishes become more obvious. There just aren't that many big guys that I'd take over Amare. It's possible that the next CBA makes his contract untenable but it's a risk I'd have to take.

Steve

The question is, do you take that in a heartbeat because he is integral to getting that first championship, or do you take him simply because there aren't many better options?

If you're going to spend 100m, then whoever you spend it on better lead you to a championship, period. Not sure Amare is that kind of player.

 

[devilalum]

If Amare has wholes drilled in his knee again it will be the Suns hanging up!