Lakers @ Suns 12-23-13

[Sunburn]

Perhaps. Miles was very aggressive tonight. He went hard after every board and I'd like to think that had a lot to do with his numbers too.

Sure. But I was responding to the poster who said he hopes Plum keeps it up. Plum won't keep this type of rebounding up. He's young and talented, but he's not Dwight Howard. D'antoni teams are soft.

 

[BC867]

Remember how we use to get crushed on the boards under D'antoni? I love Plumlee and think he has a lot of talent, but I'm pretty sure D'antoni's style had a lot to do with Plum's 20 boards tonight.

Perhaps. Miles was very aggressive tonight. He went hard after every board and I'd like to think that had a lot to do with his numbers too.

Divergent points, but I think you're both right. What Plum rebounds in any given game will depend on matchups. But his aggressiveness tonight moves him toward the next plateau of dominance on the boards.

In the post-game show, Tom Chambers volunteered to work with Plum on his free throws. 'Might not be a bad idea. Perhaps if it brings good results, Miles could take him out for a good steak . . . with an iced tea.

 

[sunsfan88]

Nick Young has really come a long way. Matured a bit and expanded his game some more. Solid ball player. Would be a good option to have on a team as a 6th man.

Don't want him in PHX though, we have enough good guards.

 

[Sunburn]

Nick Young has really come a long way. Matured a bit and expanded his game some more. Solid ball player. Would be a good option to have on a team as a 6th man.

Don't want him in PHX though, we have enough good guards.

Meh, he shot 35% tonight but I've always thought Young had game.

 

[Sunburn]

Gerald Green shot 6 for 11 from 3, accounting for 18 of his 22 total points. 3 point shooting is all he should be allowed to do offensively.

 

[95pro]

I can't feel sorry for the lakers. I'm loving it.

 

[sunsfan88]

I don't think its possible for a non Laker fan human being to feel sorry for the Lakers. They have had enough success, its time for some doom.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Haha what a terrible coach D'antoni is. Pays lip service to defense and doesn't want to develop young talent. Still can't believe this guy. SMH. He should really get Nash something nice for Christmas every year, since he's the only reason Mike has a job in the NBA.

How many Championships do you think Phil Jackson would win with the roster MDA has in Los Angeles?

The statement that MDA is incapable of developing talent is not based on fact. It is pure nonsense.

Almost every player that has played for MDA had their best years in the league in his system, including Steve Nash.

Almost every player that did not get minutes while on MDA's team never got minutes on another team after they left his team.

Name names of those players he did not develop or play and developed or played elsewhere under a different coach?

I will be interested in your answer.

Hell he even got good production out of Earl Clark last year in LA. What other coach has accomplished that feat?

 

[Sunburn]

How many Championships do you think Phil Jackson would win with the roster MDA has in Los Angeles?

The statement that MDA is incapable of developing talent is not based on fact. It is pure nonsense.

Almost every player that has played for MDA had their best years in the league in his system, including Steve Nash.

Almost every player that did not get minutes while on MDA's team never got minutes on another team after they left his team.

Name names of those players he did not develop or play and developed or played elsewhere under a different coach?

I will be interested in your answer.

Hell he even got good production out of Earl Clark last year in LA. What other coach has accomplished that feat?

D'antoni said himself while he was here in Phoenix that it was not his job to develop young players. I think it's pretty well understood that D'antoni only pays lip service to defense. Who cares if players have career years under him. His style of play inflates their numbers. Now tell me, what have I said that is false? I will be interested in your answer.

 

[95pro]

Didn't dantoni say that while he was GM?
Since then he's played what he's been dealt I believe.

 

[Phrazbit]

Whats Mike D's winning percentage without Steve Nash as his PG? Last I knew it was well below 40%.

Yes, I think its fair to say that Mike D is about 30 million dollars richer than he would be if Nash had not graced his life.

 

[JustWinBaby]

D'antoni said himself while he was here in Phoenix that it was not his job to develop young players. I think it's pretty well understood that D'antoni only pays lip service to defense. Who cares if players have career years under him. His style of play inflates their numbers. Now tell me, what have I said that is false? I will be interested in your answer.

You might want to check the facts along with Phazbit and all the other MDA haters.

We rebounded better and our defense was better when he was here then it was after he left. The coaches that followed basically had the same team and played the same type of basketball, because it fit what Nash was good at. Check the facts.

You, Phazbit and others make claims based on your OPINION. That is all it is, opinion. He played the players he had that could contribute in his system.

What players did he have that he didn't play or develop?

I am waiting. Come with facts not opinion and then I might listen.

For some reason you and others seem to hold a grudge against a coach that made basketball fun and averaged about 58 wins in his tenure here. Nash always gets the credit for every win but little blame for any loss, even though he did not accomplish much in Dallas and Dallas won a championship after he left town.

After the other whipping boy left town, Amare, Nash never made the playoffs in Phoenix. Oh, and MDA was not the coach.

If all the wins were because of Nash and none of the credit goes to MDA and Amare what happened? The bad apples left town we should have won the championship, shouldn't we?

I am also hearing the same crap about the small ball that Hornacek has been playing, what other choice does he have with the roster at hand. It is pretty freaking amazing that anyone would complain about this year but it is starting to happen. Unbelievable.

Some are even starting to complain about the minutes Hornacek is playing Bledsoe.

I enjoyed the MDA years and am enjoying this year.

If memory serves me right the Heat are a small ball team.

How many times have they been in the finals the past 3 years?

 

[ProdigalSun]

I think small ball is a little bit of a misnomer. Skill ball might be a better term. I think if you can insert a player at each position with skills and athleticism which can create mismatches, then it doesn't matter if they necessarily fit the "traditional mold" for that position

 

[Sunburn]

You might want to check the facts along with Phazbit and all the other MDA haters.

We rebounded better and our defense was better when he was here then it was after he left. The coaches that followed basically had the same team and played the same type of basketball, because it fit what Nash was good at. Check the facts.

You, Phazbit and others make claims based on your OPINION. That is all it is, opinion. He played the players he had that could contribute in his system.

What players did he have that he didn't play or develop?

I am waiting. Come with facts not opinion and then I might listen.

For some reason you and others seem to hold a grudge against a coach that made basketball fun and averaged about 58 wins in his tenure here. Nash always gets the credit for every win but little blame for any loss, even though he did not accomplish much in Dallas and Dallas won a championship after he left town.

After the other whipping boy left town, Amare, Nash never made the playoffs in Phoenix. Oh, and MDA was not the coach.

If all the wins were because of Nash and none of the credit goes to MDA and Amare what happened? The bad apples left town we should have won the championship, shouldn't we?

I am also hearing the same crap about the small ball that Hornacek has been playing, what other choice does he have with the roster at hand. It is pretty freaking amazing that anyone would complain about this year but it is starting to happen. Unbelievable.

Some are even starting to complain about the minutes Hornacek is playing Bledsoe.

I enjoyed the MDA years and am enjoying this year.

If memory serves me right the Heat are a small ball team.

How many times have they been in the finals the past 3 years?

It's like you try to overwhelm people with a lot of writing and convoluted digressions. I'll simply say the Suns made it to the Western Conference Finals in 2010 with Nash under Gentry. What has D'antoni done since leaving Nash in Phoenix? Oh, and the Heat play great defense. If you're going to criticize others for making poor arguments, you might wanna check your own first.

 

[Superbone]

Sure. But I was responding to the poster who said he hopes Plum keeps it up. Plum won't keep this type of rebounding up. He's young and talented, but he's not Dwight Howard. D'antoni teams are soft.

Howard doesn't get 20 rebounds every night.

 

[Phrazbit]

Its not "opinion" that the guy has won less than 40% of his games when Steve Nash isnt his PG.

And after Mike left Amare and Nash never made the playoffs?! They went to the conference finals!!! They slayed the Spurs!!!

It took Mike D until APRIL last year to realize that having both Dwight and Gasol was a GOOD thing.

“I’ve come to realize that we can play with the two big guys,” D’Antoni said in reference to Gasol and Howard while speaking with the media on Tuesday. “I was a little skeptical at first. I think with both of them being close to 100 percent, yeah, they can play together easily. I kind of had a preconceived notion that probably wasn’t right.”

Mike D can run a good offensive system, to the extreme detriment of his defense and he is horrid at all other aspects of the job.

Yes, he owes his career to Steve Nash.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Yes, he owes his career to Steve Nash.

And Nash to him, to a lesser extent.

 

[Phrazbit]

And Nash to him, to a lesser extent.

Nash was already an all-star and had historically good shooting percentages prior to returning to Phoenix. Under D'Antoni (and surrounded by big time athletes) Nash got be the floor general more than in Dallas where the offense ran mostly through Nowitzki. I've seen Nash thrive and play at an elite level without Mike D'Antoni, while without Nash, Mike D'Antoni has a horrible resume.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Nash was already an all-star and had historically good shooting percentages prior to returning to Phoenix. Under D'Antoni (and surrounded by big time athletes) Nash got be the floor general more than in Dallas where the offense ran mostly through Nowitzki. I've seen Nash thrive and play at an elite level without Mike D'Antoni, while without Nash, Mike D'Antoni has a horrible resume.

Nash doesn't become an MVP without DAntoni and SSOL.


on a 14 June 2006 appearance on the Late Show with David Letterman, Cuban wondered out loud, "... you know Steve's a great guy and I love him to death, but why couldn't he play like an MVP for us?"

Hence the "to a lesser extent" part of my comment. The SSOL Suns was a perfect storm of talent and philosophy that has not, and likely cannot be reduplicated. DAntoni has proven it wasn't just him, by his subsequent stops.

BTW, I think, for the most part, I am agreeing with you.

 

[devilalum]

With this win the Suns met their SCHOENE win prediction for the entire season.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9797404/explaining-schoene-projection-system

 

[JustWinBaby]

Nash was already an all-star and had historically good shooting percentages prior to returning to Phoenix. Under D'Antoni (and surrounded by big time athletes) Nash got be the floor general more than in Dallas where the offense ran mostly through Nowitzki. I've seen Nash thrive and play at an elite level without Mike D'Antoni, while without Nash, Mike D'Antoni has a horrible resume.

Your hate for D'Antoni is really beyond belief. You make arguments that have no merit and never ever have answered my key question.

What player did MDA not play that has had success elsewhere?

Sometimes the cards you are dealt determines the outcome more than any coach. Maybe he just hasn't had the talent in his other stops. It is well documented that the Knicks dumped everyone in his 1st couple of years in New York to get under the salary cap. Unfortunately for him/them they ended up with an injured Amare rather than Lebron in New York. I expect he would have done just fine if they had in fact landed Lebron and he would still be there.

To win as many games as he has this year with that group in LA might be his biggest accomplishment. Certainly Nash cannot be credited with getting them any victories this year, along with Kobe.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Your hate for D'Antoni is really beyond belief. You make arguments that have no merit and never ever have answered my key question.

What player did MDA not play that has had success elsewhere?

Sometimes the cards you are dealt determines the outcome more than any coach. Maybe he just hasn't had the talent in his other stops. It is well documented that the Knicks dumped everyone in his 1st couple of years in New York to get under the salary cap. Unfortunately for him/them they ended up with an injured Amare rather than Lebron in New York. I expect he would have done just fine if they had in fact landed Lebron and he would still be there.

To win as many games as he has this year with that group in LA might be his biggest accomplishment. Certainly Nash cannot be credited with getting them any victories this year, along with Kobe.

I agree but your blind support is equally over the top, IMO. The truth, as is often the case, is somewhere in between. I love what Dantoni did for us but I also think we suffered some because he allowed his ego to override his common sense.

So many people unfairly jumped on the "it can't work in the playoffs" bandwagon. Mike kept hearing about how his style would only work for the regular season and after awhile he became very defensive on the subject. It seems to me that he stopped coaching players and began to coach solely to prove his system worked. His SSOL made us relevant nationally and internationally and I don't think our resurgence occurs without him but his shortsightedness with young players, rotations and the value of draft picks cost us long after he left. We'll never know how much of that was on him and how much of that was on Bryan or Kerr or Sarver but Mike sure appeared to be a part of those crippling decisions. I think I've said this before - I'm grateful for what he did for us but I'm also grateful he's no longer walking our sidelines.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree but your blind support is equally over the top, IMO. The truth, as is often the case, is somewhere in between. I love what Dantoni did for us but I also think we suffered some because he allowed his ego to override his common sense.

So many people unfairly jumped on the "it can't work in the playoffs" bandwagon. Mike kept hearing about how his style would only work for the regular season and after awhile he became very defensive on the subject. It seems to me that he stopped coaching players and began to coach solely to prove his system worked. His SSOL made us relevant nationally and internationally and I don't think our resurgence occurs without him but his shortsightedness with young players, rotations and the value of draft picks cost us long after he left. We'll never know how much of that was on him and how much of that was on Bryan or Kerr or Sarver but Mike sure appeared to be a part of those crippling decisions. I think I've said this before - I'm grateful for what he did for us but I'm also grateful he's no longer walking our sidelines.

Steve

Based upon the recent yahoo article it may well be that he got to the point that he was trying to prove to Steve Kerr that his system worked. According to Sarver this is the first time in his watch that the coach and the GM were not in conflict. Wow.

 

[Phrazbit]

JustWin... give me a break about my "hate being beyond belief"... while you're claiming the Suns hadnt even made the playoffs since Mike left.

Look, I appreciate what happened during the D'Antoni years, the guy can coach a helluva offense, but at the detriment to his defense. Maybe if the Suns had a few breaks go their way they would have won a title, but teams that can get stops when it matters make their own breaks and the Suns could not. We had an enormous amount of talent and I think a lot of coaches could have won a ton of games with the guys we had out there. He couldnt get us over the top. After Mike left the team was just as good with arguably less talent with Alvin Gentry as our coach. While Mike continued to do what he was up to before landing Steve Nash... lose.

And I actually think his Knicks tenure is the ultimate proof of his short comings. He had a roster should have cruised to wins, especially in the lousy East. He gets fired, Woodson (a coach who I think stinks) steps in and the Knicks improved dramatically.

 

[AzStevenCal]

JustWin... give me a break about my "hate being beyond belief"... while you're claiming the Suns hadnt even made the playoffs since Mike left.

Look, I appreciate what happened during the D'Antoni years, the guy can coach a helluva offense, but at the detriment to his defense. Maybe if the Suns had a few breaks go their way they would have won a title, but teams that can get stops when it matters make their own breaks and the Suns could not. We had an enormous amount of talent and I think a lot of coaches could have won a ton of games with the guys we had out there. He couldnt get us over the top. After Mike left the team was just as good with arguably less talent with Alvin Gentry as our coach. While Mike continued to do what he was up to before landing Steve Nash... lose.

And I actually think his Knicks tenure is the ultimate proof of his short comings. He had a roster should have cruised to wins, especially in the lousy East. He gets fired, Woodson (a coach who I think stinks) steps in and the Knicks improved dramatically.

He had the beginnings of a roster that would have served him well and then they broke it up and traded for Carmelo, a move I'd bet just about anything that Mike privately hated. His offense and Carmelo's style are as far apart as you can get. Anthony is the ultimate ball stopper (well, along with Kobe) which is pretty much the worst thing you can do to something like Dantoni's system.

Steve