Simmons traded to Giants for a 7th

[kerouac9]

Who are you talking about? The only person still here that keeps rebuilding is Mike B and he has pretty good job secrurity.

Monti is just getting started.

BJ Ojulari looking like a building block right now.

 

[MadCardDisease]

He'd still enter into the comp pick equation.

The best possible spin on this is that we accelerated a potential 2025 comp pick we were unlikely to get because we'll spend in free agency next year.

I doubt that Comp Picks will come into play next season. I expect the Cardinals to bring in a bunch of FA negating any comp picks in 2024.

 

[TheCardFan]

BJ Ojulari looking like a building block right now.

That's all you got?

 

[Goldfield]

Sad

 

[SoonerLou]

Not that long ago

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[kerouac9]

I doubt that Comp Picks will come into play next season. I expect the Cardinals to bring in a bunch of FA negating any comp picks in 2024.

Do you? At what positions and to what end?

They're going to sign a bunch of guys for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're low-dollar, one-year deals and they wait until after the comp pick deadline expires again.

The upside is that a bunch of these one-year players prove themselves and get offered by competing teams, plus Hollywood leaves for a big-money deal.

If we dump Kyler, there's little money left to sign free agents.

That's all you got?

How long should we wait to evaluate a "build through the draft" strategy? Does it start two years from now? Three? If they re-sign any of these guys? We probably won't get much from two of our top three picks in 2023. What's the point?

 

[Card'em]

Not when you wait to deal him until after he goes against one of the best offenses in football who targets him and makes him look awful. The Cardinals sold at the lowest point, and even worse, they created it.

It seems more reasonable to me that the coaching staff decided to dump Simmons after watching him perform over 4 weeks of training camp. Once they decided he didn't fit into their plans, they traded him.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I assume that they weren't sure about Simmons until after training camp.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

It seems more reasonable to me that the coaching staff decided to dump Simmons after watching him perform over 4 weeks of training camp. Once they decided he didn't fit into their plans, they traded him.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I assume that they weren't sure about Simmons until after training camp.

I think if Simmons' issues were purely physical, then the coaches would probably have continued working with him and figuring out how to use him best...but due to lack of effort and continued mental mistakes, he had to go.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Do you? At what positions and to what end?

They're going to sign a bunch of guys for sure, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're low-dollar, one-year deals and they wait until after the comp pick deadline expires again.

The upside is that a bunch of these one-year players prove themselves and get offered by competing teams, plus Hollywood leaves for a big-money deal.

If we dump Kyler, there's little money left to sign free agents.

I'm not saying that they sign a bunch of high end FAs. However they will most likely bring in a bunch of Low and Mid level FA which will count against the Comp pick formula.

Other teams would have to sign more of the Cardinals FA than the Cardinals bring in. Aside from Hollywood, assuming the Cardinals move on from him, there really isn't much that other teams would be interested in. If any of the guys that Monti brought in on one year contracts fit his plan, he is going to try and re-sign them before FA opens. That won't leave much quality hitting the open market in 2024 for other teams to sign. Who is going to spend big FA money on a 38 year old Colt McCoy?

 

[Mainstreet]

This may have been the play that did it.

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[kerouac9]

I think if Simmons' issues were purely physical, then the coaches would probably have continued working with him and figuring out how to use him best...but due to lack of effort and continued mental mistakes, he had to go.

There's the smear. Build the momentum.

I'm not saying that they sign a bunch of high end FAs. However they will most likely bring in a bunch of Low and Mid level FA which will count against the Comp pick formula.

Other teams would have to sign more of the Cardinals FA than the Cardinals bring in. Aside from Hollywood, assuming the Cardinals move on from him, there really isn't much that other teams would be interested in. If any of the guys that Monti brought in on one year contracts fit his plan, he is going to try and re-sign them before FA opens. That won't leave much quality hitting the open market in 2024 for other teams to sign. Who is going to spend big FA money on a 38 year old Colt McCoy?

I dunno. So they'll do exactly what they did last offseason? There's obviously a ton of speculation and assumption here.

The odds obviously went down a ton with both Simmons and now Jones shipped off. Only Hollywood Brown, Rashard Lawrence, and Leki Fotu are pending free agents under 28 who played more than 30% of snaps last year.

I wouldn't be surprised if Antonio Hamilton and Rondale Moore are next.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

There's the smear. Build the momentum.



I dunno. So they'll do exactly what they did last offseason? There's obviously a ton of speculation and assumption here.

The odds obviously went down a ton with both Simmons and now Jones shipped off. Only Hollywood Brown, Rashard Lawrence, and Leki Fotu are pending free agents under 28 who played more than 30% of snaps last year.

I wouldn't be surprised if Antonio Hamilton and Rondale Moore are next.

Look at the post with the tweet from Chiefs game, right above your comment...That's the lack of effort. It's not a smear campaign, when there is literal proof in front of out eyes.

 

[Big D]

The decision to move Simmons to safety was about to be a really, really bad look for whoever made and signed off on that call. Most of us that have watched the guy play the past 3 seasons could see that it had disaster written all over it.

I don’t think Monti or Gannon thought it would look this bad this quickly though. It was time to wash that stain off before it set in.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You guys are crazy if you think Simmons was traded because of lack of effort in a pre-season game. There's not a lot of 100% effort in preseason games. Otherwise, players would play.

This was probably more of a case of Monti trying to show he's the smartest guy in the room even though he has F'd up about everything he's touched up to this point.

 

[CardNots]

Please stop saying Simmons “has all the tools”.

He doesn’t.

He’s super stiff in his lower body & can’t flip his hips because of it. Which, in turn, makes him a MASSIVE liability in coverage against anyone that isn’t running a vertical route.

He is only straight line fast. That’s not having all the tools.

At the NFL level you must have excellent instincts and/or intelligence to add to the physical traits.

 

[Chopper0080]

The bolded makes sense, but I guess the conclusion was that he didn't progress much at all in his first three years in the NFL (maybe regressed even), and there was little hope for him progressing even in the limited role you describe.

You have to think JG and Rallis desperately wanted to utilize all that physical talent, and they took a long look at him, but they just didn't see it happening.

I think they had already made up their mind that he wasn't going to work out which is why they let Simmons pick the position he wanted to be at, and didn't do much to simplify things down for him. If you are invested in finding ways to make someone work, you come to them with a plan, and not the other way around.

 

[PACardsFan]

The guy has value as a player. He's not what we wanted him to be, at least with how we used him, but there will be worse players on our roster this year than Simmons. The fact we paid his bonus only to now trade him for a 7th is a joke. Clearly an ad-hoc move, not one with a plan in mind*.

I don't expect him to become the next Reddick, but the guy might have a decent career if stuck at one position with a team that knows how to coach players. He has limitations, but also some great attributes. He's flashed. He'll likely flash quite a bit again. There's something to work with. With our team at the bottom of the league in terms of talent, we just gave up on the guy. The gap between us and the average NFL team just got bigger.

When we were hiring our GM/coaches, surely you find out what they think of the better players and higher draft picks on the roster. You see what the plan for them was. It's not a good sign they missed on Simmons and cut bait for a 7th this early. It makes one wonder, what else did they get wrong?

I also find it weird that all these good players we let go in free agency, assets we didn't capitalize on, and high draft picks with talent just didn't fit that quick turnaround plan. Imagine telling MB during the interview... yeah we'll not re-sign Allen or Murphy to team-friendly contracts, release Hopkins, and trade Simmons. Would the candidate who presented that plan be the one you hired for a 'quick turnaround'?

Everything is pointing to a complete tear-down, and I just hope the new front office recognizes that is what they are doing because I'm starting to doubt it.

It seemed most of Simmons's issues were his 'head'. I just find it perplexing that it could be his head when he was also moved around in college. Moving him back to safety then cutting bait. Whatever plan they had, it didn't work.

Also, I don't see how ducking questions about Simmons helps build the team. Seems like a coward's way out.

That leaves me as a fan to think there's one of two options happening. Either this is a full rebuild they are bumbling into one ad-hoc decision at a time or a full rebuild that they are being sly* about. Either way, it's a full rebuild. With this team, I can't rule out the first, even if it's probably the 2nd.

Just remember whatever their plan is... they keep telling us they are trying to build a team for a quick turnaround, but all we keep seeing is the removal of talent. Full rebuild.

There should be no comparison made between Reddick & Simmons. We did manage to find the right position for Reddick to play AND excel at. No one has found that one position for Simmons, and it‘s highly unlikely that anyone will.

 

[Chopper0080]

Who are you talking about? The only person still here that keeps rebuilding is Mike B and he has pretty good job secrurity.

Monti is just getting started.

Starting by intentionally building a loser roster. Hell of a start.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

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Back is looking ok for Murphy these days.

 

[Arz101]

True cause people cant forget how hard they were selling the Simmons stuff. Makes the Kyler stuff seem a bit suspect now.

Now you know why Gambo is the richest sports radio guy in the local market. He sells company's talking points.

 

[imaCafan]

Starting by intentionally building a loser roster. Hell of a start.

Gotta admit, if we win a few games and play competitive football all year it will be because of coaching, not a stacked roster...

 

[TheCardFan]

Starting by intentionally building a loser roster. Hell of a start.

Your right.

Let's keep mediocre players and keep missing the playoffs and gettting middle of the round draft picks.

With a top 5 paid QB and a roster that is void of talent.

That seems like a better idea.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I think they had already made up their mind that he wasn't going to work out which is why they let Simmons pick the position he wanted to be at, and didn't do much to simplify things down for him. If you are invested in finding ways to make someone work, you come to them with a plan, and not the other way around.

If you made up your mind, why would you pay the bonus? Your argument falls apart when you consider they could have saved money by trading him earlier.

And players that you have to "simplify" "dumb down" etc aren't players you should keep. Maybe if you are competing for a playoff spot, sure, but not on a rebuilding team.

Ask yourself this question, would you be interested in re-signing Simmons? I think the answer is emphatically no. This is all sunk cost fallacy at play.

 

[Phrazbit]

If you made up your mind, why would you pay the bonus? Your argument falls apart when you consider they could have saved money by trading him earlier.

And players that you have to "simplify" "dumb down" etc aren't players you should keep. Maybe if you are competing for a playoff spot, sure, but not on a rebuilding team.

Ask yourself this question, would you be interested in re-signing Simmons? I think the answer is emphatically no. This is all sunk cost fallacy at play.

But he doesn’t cost anything. Maybe he was lazy, maybe they are worried about his status being distracting, but the cost has already been paid.

I think they are going to wipe the roster clean over the next 2 years. Hump… maybe Jalen Thompson being the only carryovers from the previous regime.

 

[kerouac9]

Gotta admit, if we win a few games and play competitive football all year it will be because of coaching, not a stacked roster...

Football is about the Jimmys and Joes, not the Xs and Os, when it comes right down to it. If we lose every games 27-6, you're going to blame anyone -- it'll be part of the plan. How long are you willing to be served trash before you decide you deserve better?

Your right.

Let's keep mediocre players and keep missing the playoffs and gettting middle of the round draft picks.

With a top 5 paid QB and a roster that is void of talent.

That seems like a better idea.

We made the playoffs two years ago. Are we better off now? How?

You've articulated a perfect situation for Monti: Every move he makes that makes us less competitive is brilliant because we're in a rebuild. Every move he makes that makes us more competitive is equally brilliant because we're more able to compete.

The roster is only void of talent because Monti Ossenfort oversaw its dismantling while you cheered happily from the sideline.

If you made up your mind, why would you pay the bonus? Your argument falls apart when you consider they could have saved money by trading him earlier.

And players that you have to "simplify" "dumb down" etc aren't players you should keep. Maybe if you are competing for a playoff spot, sure, but not on a rebuilding team.

Ask yourself this question, would you be interested in re-signing Simmons? I think the answer is emphatically no. This is all sunk cost fallacy at play.

It's not. If Simmons played well this year, we'd obviously be interested in re-signing him. So would you. You didn't think Simmons was unplayable until this morning after he got traded.