Skins may be interested in Rosen

[Solar7]

Murray's performance as a Freshman TAMU is pretty much irrelevant Solar, isn't it? In terms of his future in the NFL? It's not how he began his college career, it's how he ended it, right?

R. Wilson posted very pedestrian stats as Freshman, Sophomore, and Junior (at NCST). But he killed it his senior season, and now look how well he's done as a professional.

And my point about the watch lists was to emphasize just what an incredible 2018 Murray had. Transcendent.

Don't you want that guy on your team Solar?

Considering it wasn't very good, and we only have 14 other games to go off of, no, it's not irrelevant. You have to look at the entire sample size and not just the parts that prove your argument.

I want the guy who isn't going to get blasted by a linebacker, be out for a season, and only ever gives us a few highlight reel plays on his way to not being signed for a second contract.

I have much more faith in a pocket QB to not get destroyed and tank our season.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Considering it wasn't very good, and we only have 14 other games to go off of, no, it's not irrelevant. You have to look at the entire sample size and not just the parts that prove your argument.

I want the guy who isn't going to get blasted by a linebacker, be out for a season, and only ever gives us a few highlight reel plays on his way to not being signed for a second contract.

I have much more faith in a pocket QB to not get destroyed and tank our season.

Sigh.. fine, we'll agree to disagree on the first part of you post, and I will concede your last sentence is at least reasonable.

 

[bojack]

I can only think Keim was given an ultimatum that if the KK offense experiment doesn't work out this year that he is toast so he is going to bet the farm, future consequences be damned, to try to make that happen.

The optics is another aspect also. If this grand scheme doesn't work out our club is going to be the laugh of the league due the unconventional nature of all of this.

 

[juza76]

I can only think Keim was given an ultimatum that if the KK offense experiment doesn't work out this year that he is toast so he is going to bet the farm, future consequences be damned, to try to make that happen.

The optics is another aspect also. If this grand scheme doesn't work out our club is going to be the laugh of the league due the unconventional nature of all of this.

Is not guarantee they wont fail with Rosen
If KK prefers Murray with his offense why dont satisfy the head coach?

 

[Solar7]

I can only think Keim was given an ultimatum that if the KK offense experiment doesn't work out this year that he is toast so he is going to bet the farm, future consequences be damned, to try to make that happen.

The optics is another aspect also. If this grand scheme doesn't work out our club is going to be the laugh of the league due the unconventional nature of all of this.

We'll either be the toast of the town or the laughing stock.

No middle ground. Not my kind of style, haha. Scary.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Hmmm... Okay Shane.

I'm not guaranteeing that Murray will be equal to, or greater than Wilson.

What I'm saying is that, based on the information that we have, there's a good chance that Murray will be as good as Wilson, and, there's also decent chance that he might even be better than Wilson.

In my humble opinion, if the Cardinals have the opportunity to draft a player like the one I describe above, it's an easy decision. You do it in a heartbeat. The QB position is too important not to.

This UT rival here of yours is not about to say Murray sucks but actually more to the contrary, or that he is not capable of being something very special but there is a lot going against drafting him if you are the Cardinals and a lot of that is the Cardinals situation because I do believe Rosen is a good QB and more than capable of running a Kingsberry offense which also consists of a 53 man roster which also needs attention because football is the ultimate team sport. I will also add that Murray does not have to scramble to complete a pass and is adapt at throwing from the pocket. If we had a QB in his twilight like Warner or Palmer and drafting in the mid first, I would totally be on board at drafting Murray but we have pieces in place which do not need this gamble after a huge but enticing hiring of a offensive minded coach in Kingsberry

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Before are ianswer that are you trying to say that he is based off his on eyear of college succuess?



One year of college success doesn't make you a guaranteed NFL prospect that is worthy of being compared to a SB winner and perennial NFL pro Bowl level QB.

%'s say that he is far more likely to fail then be a Russel Wilson. The NFL as a whole has shown that typically shorter QBs aren't successful.

Again not buying into his phony weigh in numbers where it has been speculated that he did all he could to inflate the number prior to weigh in. Thus the agent not being comfortable with him performing his drills at that weight. Afraid his stock would plummet.

You guys wanna proclaim him the next Wilson more power to you and good luck to ya.

Okay so you’re not actually comparing anything about either of their games. Got it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hmmm... Okay Shane.

I'm not guaranteeing that Murray will be equal to, or greater than Wilson.

What I'm saying is that, based on the information that we have, there's a good chance that Murray will be as good as Wilson, and, there's also decent chance that he might even be better than Wilson.

In my humble opinion, if the Cardinals have the opportunity to draft a player like the one I describe above, it's an easy decision. You do it in a heartbeat. The QB position is too important not to.

I would say he could be, or better, Wilson. I wouldn’t say “good chance” or “decent chance.”

 

[Crimson Warrior]

This UT rival here of yours is not about to say Murray sucks but actually more to the contrary, or that he is not capable of being something very special but there is a lot going against drafting him if you are the Cardinals and a lot of that is the Cardinals situation because I do believe Rosen is a good QB and more than capable of running a Kingsberry offense which also consists of a 53 man roster which also needs attention because football is the ultimate team sport. I will also add that Murray does not have to scramble to complete a pass and is adapt at throwing from the pocket. If we had a QB in his twilight like Warner or Palmer and drafting in the mid first, I would totally be on board at drafting Murray but we have pieces in place which do not need this gamble after a huge but enticing hiring of a offensive minded coach in Kingsberry

So right player, but the wrong time? That's fair Jetstream.

 

[JeffGollin]

Definitely won't happen but:

Let's travel outside the box and assume we have Kingsbury's creative chops:

Given Murray's freakish talent in the open field, could we line up with both Rosen and Murray in the same backfield and move Murray around to provide Rosen with a multi-talented threat as a receiver, jet-sweep runner or 2nd QB?

(Note - To carry out this strategy to its ridiculous extreme, we could stock our roster with triple-threat types at all 6 skill positions to exert incredible pressure on opposing defenses).

Just wondering.

 

[Krangodnzr]

The "Murray didn't start enough games in college" argument? Pfft.

That might be slightly compelling if he didn't win the heisman in his junior season.

You understand that Murray wasn't on any of the heisman watch lists or anything like that prior to 2018 campaign right Krang? That he literally came out of nowhere, from way back in the pack, to win that, and about a billion other QB awards?

He had the best single season ever by a QB man. As a junior.

IF (hypothetically, I say!) he would have stayed for his senior season, backed by the coaching and play calling of Lincoln Riley, I bet he would have won another heisman, and put himself in the conversation for the greatest college QB of all time.

So no. I don't buy the games started argument at all. Not after what we saw for the 2018 season. He's polished enough. He's ready to go.

It's less compelling because Mayfield did it last year. I think Lincoln Riley deserves a ton of credit.

You can go PFFFT at lack of starters, but most QBs with few starts fail. Just another reason NOT to draft the skinny dwarf QB.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Failure by their coaching staff to develop the talent. On paper they signed plenty of good talent out of high school in recent years.

On paper, but not on the field. That's what matters.

Rosen had poo receivers, a poo oline, and poo RBs. I don't even know why you are questioning this...UCLA is trash.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This week Haskins ran a glacially slow 5.04 40 yard dash. He failed to surpass Josh "The Blazer" Rosen's 2018 combine 40 yard dash time of 4.92.

What was Tom Brady's 40 time?

All you Murray fan Bois are missing one key point: running QBs don't really win Super Bowls. Pocket passers do. Even when Russell Wilson did it was because of his defense and running game.

The NFL is still dominated by pocket passers because you want a QB that can first make the ordinary play. Midget QBs aren't as good making the ordinary play.

 

[Proximo]

You know I just don't get this seemingly ultra high opinion of Rosen.

I want him to be successful, I thought when we drafted him he could be the best qb in the draft, but if we are being honest he did not perform well last season. Yes I am positive some of that was due to our horrific OC's and bad O line, but if you are going to tell me you are not at least concerned with his performance last year I am going to call you a liar.

Can he turn it around? Maybe. Is it even close to a sure thing - nope.

I know Murray is a crap shoot also, but if you just look at performance - not measurables - Murray was a better QB in college.

I still think my first choice is to trade down from the first pick, but if they don't do that, I absolutely want Murray over Bosa, and I won't be worried about it at all, because honestly I think he has just as much upside as Rosen, and maybe more because Rosen sort of flamed out as a rookie.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I would say he could be, or better, Wilson. I wouldn’t say “good chance” or “decent chance.”

What was Tom Brady's 40 time?

All you Murray fan Bois are missing one key point: running QBs don't really win Super Bowls. Pocket passers do. Even when Russell Wilson did it was because of his defense and running game.

The NFL is still dominated by pocket passers because you want a QB that can first make the ordinary play. Midget QBs aren't as good making the ordinary play.

For the last time Krang, Murray is a pass first guy. Jesus.

He's an awesome pocket passer, who just so happens to also possess incredible running ability.

 

[slanidrac16]

How about we trade with the raiders for their 4th and 26th and 35th. Then we trade back with the giants so they can select Haskins .we get their 6, 38. We end up with 7,26,33,35,38 65, and 71. What a haul! Imagine the possibilities.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

It's less compelling because Mayfield did it last year. I think Lincoln Riley deserves a ton of credit.

You can go PFFFT at lack of starters, but most QBs with few starts fail. Just another reason NOT to draft the skinny dwarf QB.

Fine. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one sir.

 

[Krangodnzr]

For the last time Krang, Murray is a pass first guy. Jesus.

He's an awesome pocket passer, who just so happens to also possess incredible running ability.

He is a runner. He ran the ball almost as many times as Oklahoma's leading ball carrier.

He ran for a 1000 yards which makes him a running QB.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

How about we trade with the raiders for their 4th and 26th and 35th. Then we trade back with the giants so they can select Haskins .we get their 6, 38. We end up with 7,26,33,35,38 65, and 71. What a haul! Imagine the possibilities.

Interesting idea.

The problem is with this is do we trust Keim to make good with those picks? Or does he try drafting small school guys and try to get cute with having so many picks?

 

[Solar7]

You know I just don't get this seemingly ultra high opinion of Rosen.

I want him to be successful, I thought when we drafted him he could be the best qb in the draft, but if we are being honest he did not perform well last season. Yes I am positive some of that was due to our horrific OC's and bad O line, but if you are going to tell me you are not at least concerned with his performance last year I am going to call you a liar.

Can he turn it around? Maybe. Is it even close to a sure thing - nope.

I know Murray is a crap shoot also, but if you just look at performance - not measurables - Murray was a better QB in college.

I still think my first choice is to trade down from the first pick, but if they don't do that, I absolutely want Murray over Bosa, and I won't be worried about it at all, because honestly I think he has just as much upside as Rosen, and maybe more because Rosen sort of flamed out as a rookie.

I'm a Rosen fan, but this entire thing is less about how good I think Rosen is going to be and more that I think Murray will flame out, and we have to at least give our investment in Rosen a chance.

In Murray I see Michael Vick 2.0. He'll probably set the world on fire, provide some amazing highlight reel type plays, get the fan base super excited, but by the time he's in year five we'll be at each others' throats about re-signing him because he won't have really accomplished anything of note when it comes to what matters: winning. That and he'll probably get critically injured in the first five games of his career because he's even smaller than me and my diet consists of beer and frozen lasagna.

 

[DRM08]

He is a runner. He ran the ball almost as many times as Oklahoma's leading ball carrier.

He ran for a 1000 yards which makes him a running QB.

He is not Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick, even though he has similar speed and quickness to those guys. He has much better passing mechanics and accuracy than either of those guys coming out of college.

 

[Shane]

He is not Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick, even though he has similar speed and quickness to those guys. He has much better passing mechanics and accuracy than either of those guys coming out of college.

Did you just say Murray has similar speed to Michael Vick?

 

[DRM08]

Did you just say Murray has similar speed to Michael Vick?

Yes, he does.

 

[HeHasRosen]

He is not Lamar Jackson or Michael Vick, even though he has similar speed and quickness to those guys. He has much better passing mechanics and accuracy than either of those guys coming out of college.

Nobody wants to admit it but the true comp is Johnny Manziel minus the baggage. The more tape I watch the more he reminds me of Johnny Football. But Manziel was nearly 2 inches taller. Good improviser but doesn't sense pressure well and bolts at the first sign of it. There's many times he should slide in the pocket or move into space to throw but tucks and runs instead. Missed many open receivers this way. Plays hero football. This is why Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are not good comps. They feel pressure well and move to make throws not to run. Also bigger frames. Also 4 year starters in college! Watch the tape and tell me im wrong.

 

[DRM08]

Nobody wants to admit it but the true comp is Johnny Manziel minus the baggage. The more tape I watch the more he reminds me of Johnny Football. But Manziel was nearly 2 inches taller. Good improviser but doesn't sense pressure well and bolts at the first sign of it. There's many times he should slide in the pocket or move into space to throw but tucks and runs instead. Missed many open receivers this way. Plays hero football. This is why Russell Wilson and Drew Brees are not good comps. They feel pressure well and move to make throws not to run. Also bigger frames. Also 4 year starters in college! Watch the tape and tell me im wrong.

Yes, Johnny is the best comparison. That is why Kliff wanted Kyler in the first place out of high school. But Kyler is faster with a bigger arm and zero baggage. He is a better pro prospect than Manziel as a result of all those things.