So long Leonard

[Renz]

So, in a nutshell I wish we could have gotten a draft pick out of Big before letting him walk, but since he doesn't seem to have the heart to be on this team I'm ok with sending him packing and will rely on Grimm to coach up and build a solid line, making this ultimately a good decision.

We will get a compensatory pick. Maybe even a 3rd or 4th rounder if we're lucky.

 

[Pariah]

We will get a compensatory pick. Maybe even a 3rd or 4th rounder if we're lucky.

We're the Cardinals--we represent the universe's counterbalance to "lucky."

 

[Renz]

So, the problem people have with tagging him is that he may sign the tender and we'd be on the hook for 11 mill, yes? True, that is a risk. If he did that, we have more than enough cap room to pay him and still chase after anybody we want in FA. God doesn't have as much cap room as we do. We don't even have to start him; we can still try and find a replacement. It would be a lot of money for a backup, but I think if he signed the tender, we could definitely find a use for him.

That risk, though, is so minute as to be laughable. LD likely doesn't want to stay. We've heard grumblings that he'd like to go back to Texas, and I think both Dallas and Houston would love to have him. If they want to trade for him, they will not have to pay him 11 million a season; you can work out a sign-and-trade for a franchise player, where we get our compensation in the form of draft picks, and the other team gets to sign him to a brand new contract with an extension. I cannot think, for a minute, that if we and a franchised LD went to the Texans and offered him for even an expensive deal and extension, and a 3rd round pick, that it would be refused.

So, are some of you STILL thrilled with this move? Low-risk, high-reward. And if you don't have the balls to take a risk like that, you don't belong in an NFL front office.

Paying $11 mil. for a potential backup is laughable at best. I realize it isn't "our" money, but it is somebody's money. You can't make multi-million dollar decisions in a vacuum.

IMO, going with the unknown takes more guts than just tagging a guy because he's all ready on your team, even when you know he isn't worth what you are paying him.

 

[jmt]

So, the problem people have with tagging him is that he may sign the tender and we'd be on the hook for 11 mill, yes? True, that is a risk. If he did that, we have more than enough cap room to pay him and still chase after anybody we want in FA. God doesn't have as much cap room as we do. We don't even have to start him; we can still try and find a replacement. It would be a lot of money for a backup, but I think if he signed the tender, we could definitely find a use for him.

That risk, though, is so minute as to be laughable. LD likely doesn't want to stay. We've heard grumblings that he'd like to go back to Texas, and I think both Dallas and Houston would love to have him. If they want to trade for him, they will not have to pay him 11 million a season; you can work out a sign-and-trade for a franchise player, where we get our compensation in the form of draft picks, and the other team gets to sign him to a brand new contract with an extension. I cannot think, for a minute, that if we and a franchised LD went to the Texans and offered him for even an expensive deal and extension, and a 3rd round pick, that it would be refused.

So, are some of you STILL thrilled with this move? Low-risk, high-reward. And if you don't have the balls to take a risk like that, you don't belong in an NFL front office.

Pure conjecture.

 

[joeshmo]

We will get a compensatory pick. Maybe even a 3rd or 4th rounder if we're lucky.

If the Cards sign a player of equal value which they better do after not only saying they will but after losing Davis, they will not get a comp pick.

You only get comp picks if you lose more quality FA's then sign, and with 30+ mill in cap space that is highly unlikely we dont at least sign one player to counteract the lose of Davis.

 

[BACH]

You've organized the process wrong. If he's traded as a franchise player, he never actually signs the 11.4 million dollar contract. He signs a long-term deal with his new team instead.

And, yeah, he would ostensibly do it in a heartbeat. Why? Besides leaving here and going home? Because a long term contract at market value (which will be quite high this offseason) will pay more than a 1yr, 11 million deal will. Because he could get hurt or suck next year. Because we could franchise him again after next season.

Maybe now you're realizing the iditioic decision we've made.

Nope! You cannot trade a player not under contract.

Can we agree that $11.4M is well-above Big's market value. The number is that high, because it's 20% higher than his enormous base salary is the last year of his rookie deal. The only recent example of this is Charles Woodson, and he signed his tender the same day as it was offered.

Why? Because your logic still doesn't add up. If Big gets injured then that long-term contract doesn't do him any good anyway...

Big would jump on a one year deal in a second. He gets $11.4M to play one year for us and then next season he gets a long-term deal form the Texans with a $12-$15M Signing Bonus. That's $25M in 13 months.

The only reason why Big would take a long term deal, is if the signing bonus is significantly higher than $11.4M. It's not, and therefore he would sign the tender in a second. That's the whole difference in this situation. The Base Salary is almost a big as a the signing bonus on a long-term deal, so the the advantages of a long term deal disappears.

 

[40yearfan]

Do you use a tool when you're trying to jam words into my mouth, or do you just use your hands?

I'm saying that Whis doesn't have the authority to "buck" RG in a situation where he knows it will definitely hurt his team. There's no other way to put it than that this team is going to be worse on March 1 than it was on February 28. It's not Whis's decision, and since it's his boss making the decision, he doesn't have any other choice but to go along with it and give the tepid thumbs up to it that was quoted in the paper this morning.

I "default" to the decision being Graves' because he's the Vice President of Football Operations, and it is his decision. I do disagree with it, and I think that Graves is a bad general manager, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it is very much Graves' decision, and if he had said, "We're keeping Davis until we find someone better," then Whis wouldn't have had anything to say about that, either.

How do you know it's not Wiz's decision? How can you be so sure? Why would the Cards brass allow him to hire anyone he wanted as assistants (when you said they wouldn't) and then tell him what players he had to keep or get rid of? You are making some big assumptions with nothing to go on other than gut feel.

Is it so hard to believe that Wiz and Grimm would disagree with you and say LD is not worth the money? Have you talked to them to confirm this? Even the newspapers aren't pursuing this line of thought, so what makes you so sure you are right?

 

[ajcardfan]

We will get a compensatory pick. Maybe even a 3rd or 4th rounder if we're lucky.

NEXT year. That does squat for us next season.

 

[Russ Smith]

If we franchised Davis and then went into FA and signed a replacement, can't we then retract the franchise tag? When's the cutoff for the tag to be removed is it before UFA starts?

Doesn't matter we've clearly said we won't tag him,but I think people forget you can remove the tag, I just can't remember when the cutoff to do so is.

 

[Renz]

NEXT year. That does squat for us next season.

No, but at least it's something. Anyway, if Joe is right we probably won't get a compensatory pick when we sign somebody else's FA's.

Either way, we will be spending money on a LT, it just won't be Big. If we get a comparable lineman at less money in FA then we come out way ahead. Especially considering that we weren't going to get the effort out of Davis commensurate with his salary.

 

[Feeble Mcjackson]

Have you guys watched Leonard Davis Play? He plays heartless uninspired football and only cares about making a check. He was the highest paid player on our team and one of the most disapointing top draft picks in the last decade.

Kudos to whiz for getting rid of the losing individualistic mentality with players like Davis.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Have you guys watched Leonard Davis Play? He plays heartless uninspired football and only cares about making a check. He was the highest paid player on our team and one of the most disapointing top draft picks in the last decade.

Kudos to whiz for getting rid of the losing individualistic mentality with players like Davis.

 

[Mulli]

Have you guys watched Leonard Davis Play? He plays heartless uninspired football and only cares about making a check. He was the highest paid player on our team and one of the most disapointing top draft picks in the last decade.

Kudos to whiz for getting rid of the losing individualistic mentality with players like Davis.

I have been thinking this same thing

 

[Renz]

If we franchised Davis and then went into FA and signed a replacement, can't we then retract the franchise tag? When's the cutoff for the tag to be removed is it before UFA starts?

Doesn't matter, IMO. Big would sign that $11 mil. contract before the ink was dry.

 

[kerouac9]

How do you know it's not Wiz's decision? How can you be so sure? Why would the Cards brass allow him to hire anyone he wanted as assistants (when you said they wouldn't) and then tell him what players he had to keep or get rid of? You are making some big assumptions with nothing to go on other than gut feel.

Is it so hard to believe that Wiz and Grimm would disagree with you and say LD is not worth the money? Have you talked to them to confirm this? Even the newspapers aren't pursuing this line of thought, so what makes you so sure you are right?

You're right, I can't be sure that it's not Whis's decision, but I can be sure that he's not the trigger man on the decision, because Rod Graves is. How do I know that, because he's the Vice President of Football Operations.

The Cards' brass would allow him to hire anyone he wanted as assistants (except maybe Clancy Pendergast) and then tell him what players would be kept or released/allowed to test free agency because they're mutually exclusive areas. Picking your underlings/staff is very much different than picking personnel, because a lot more issues are involved in personnel than staffing, like the salary cap, the draft, other available free agents, etc.

It's not hard for me to believe that Whis and Grimm would think that Davis isn't worth the money. I think that most everyone here would say that. Honestly, I have some douby taht Whis and Grimm have been watching "tons of film" on Davis, because as of a few days ago, Grimm was saying that he hadn't seen almost anything about our roster. That said, it is really difficult to swallow that Whis and Grimm would think that nothing is more valuable than Leonard Davis, which is the situation that the Cards are in right now.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that the Cards wouldn't put full personnel control in the hands of two guys who have never been head coaches or involved in personnel ever in their careers?

 

[ActingWild]

Paying $11 mil. for a potential backup is laughable at best. I realize it isn't "our" money, but it is somebody's money. You can't make multi-million dollar decisions in a vacuum.

IMO, going with the unknown takes more guts than just tagging a guy because he's all ready on your team, even when you know he isn't worth what you are paying him.

Considering the way we went most of last season with $10 million under the cap because there "just weren't any good options out there" and given the current OL market, I have no problem spending $11 million of our cap space for 1 more year as a stop gap for the 2008 FA season if we can't trade him.

Davis has not played like a top left tackle, but given what's out there, we're making our OL worse by letting him go, which even then I could handle if we got at least SOMETHING for him. Whether it's deserved or not, nationally people think Davis is worth something and are willing to pay for him and we're saying "No, you're all wrong and we're going to prove it by just letting him go."

Yeah, it was a good decision to let Boston go...but it was still a BAD one to get nothing for him.

 

[joeshmo]

Doesn't matter, IMO. Big would sign that $11 mil. contract before the ink was dry.

You can still trade him just as easily. He would go to the other team and sign a long term deal anyways restructering that 11 Mill. And yes he would rather sign a long term deal because that is what all players want, becuase he can be injured just as easily as him signing that 11 Mill check to the bank. He would also get a much higher bonus check then that 11 Mill to go with the security.

The only thing that signing the tender offer early does is make the team try much harder to trade him and maybe even take lesser compensation from a team of the players choice just to make sure it happens. It puts more control of where the player wants to go in the players hands then it does the teams.

 

[40yearfan]

You're right, I can't be sure that it's not Whis's decision, but I can be sure that he's not the trigger man on the decision, because Rod Graves is. How do I know that, because he's the Vice President of Football Operations.

The Cards' brass would allow him to hire anyone he wanted as assistants (except maybe Clancy Pendergast) and then tell him what players would be kept or released/allowed to test free agency because they're mutually exclusive areas. Picking your underlings/staff is very much different than picking personnel, because a lot more issues are involved in personnel than staffing, like the salary cap, the draft, other available free agents, etc.

It's not hard for me to believe that Whis and Grimm would think that Davis isn't worth the money. I think that most everyone here would say that. Honestly, I have some douby taht Whis and Grimm have been watching "tons of film" on Davis, because as of a few days ago, Grimm was saying that he hadn't seen almost anything about our roster. That said, it is really difficult to swallow that Whis and Grimm would think that nothing is more valuable than Leonard Davis, which is the situation that the Cards are in right now.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that the Cards wouldn't put full personnel control in the hands of two guys who have never been head coaches or involved in personnel ever in their careers?

Simple. The Cards team that used to be is no more. Because you are who you are, you expect them to do things to somehow screw up a good start to a new season like they always seem to do. But you overlook the fact that this is not the same old Cardinals.

Every move they have made is towards turning this team into a winner. They got a hard nosed coach, any assistants he wanted (Grimm was a steal), and the pocket book is wide open. They realize they have to perform this year or the money tree will dry up. Believe me, with the taste of money MB has in his mouth, he is not going to pinch pennies now.

I truely believe this was a decision made by Wiz and Grimm and I agree whole heartedly with it. Let's get players like DD and AW and Q. People who want to win. LD does not fit that profile.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

Let's get players like DD and AW and Q. People who want to win. LD does not fit that profile.

WTF?

 

[SECTION 11]

and the pocket book is wide open.

Letting Big walk is a money move, not a football one. We're worse now than we were yesterday.

 

[Shane]

This is a very good move. It sends a message to the entire team that underperformance is not rewarded with a huge salary.

And Graves' stature actually goes up, IMHO. This is a tough call that could blow up in his face, but it is great to see the FO take a stand and show that they are willing to take a chance, in order to make the team better.

The Shark

 

[AntSports Steve]

In 2006, the Cards started the season with over $10M in cap space.

I'm sure in 2007, they will try hard to sign several top guys. I don't think the Cardss will convince enough top players to sign with the Cards to use up there well over $30M in cap space.

If the Cards start the 2007 season with over $15M in cap space, I will consider that a failure.

 

[40yearfan]

WTF?

Dockett, Wilson and Boldin.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Have you guys watched Leonard Davis Play? He plays heartless uninspired football and only cares about making a check. He was the highest paid player on our team and one of the most disapointing top draft picks in the last decade.

Kudos to whiz for getting rid of the losing individualistic mentality with players like Davis.

....he is heads above the rest of the available free agent lineman. What does that tell you.

Translation. We plan on letting go of a heartless, uninspired player, and plan on replacing him with someone even worse.

 

[40yearfan]

Letting Big walk is a money move, not a football one. We're worse now than we were yesterday.

Sorry S11, but I don't agree with you on this one. I think it was a move made to show the rest of the players that lazy will no longer be tolerated. I'd love to poll the players to see what they think of this move.