So much for a championship

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

OK...Pistons are still damn good without Billups and have always given the Suns trouble either way.

The Nuggets are starting to get their act together and when Melo and AI are both shooting lights out there won't be many teams that can stop them.

The Kings, yeah, I'll give you that one. That was rough.

The Sixers game was at the end of a nice road trip as a back to back when the Suns were missing a couple starters of their own.

Again, I'm not saying the Suns should be happy with the way they have been playing lately. But it certainly isn't as bad as you make it out to be or as dire a situation as many on the board are.

if someone digs enough they can always come up with an excuse for any loss. they also end up burying their head in the sand. these are bad losses. not for the fact that they are losses, but for the fact that they had common themes . . . no defense, no rebounding, no sense of urgency. the w-l column is not followed by a column entitled "good excuses."

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Great point. I guess it's a still a blessing to have a team that struggles and still goes 14 and 5. Things could be worse and we could be struggling and go 5-14. I think the standards are so high right now that people are having trouble seeing the big picture.

the big picture is a championship. anything less is a disappointment. by definition that's high standards. the suns set those standards. holding them to those standards should be expected. they are currently looking like they will be hard pressed to meet the standard they set.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

though i was not a huge b-ball fan during that season, i can say this: the difference between these two teams is that we are more effective with imposing our running style onto other teams. back then, though we were dominant, we were more like the warriors who play the style well but couldnt always get other teams to play that way with them.

completely disagree with you here. back in '05 we had out tempo b/c no one knew how to contain it. we didn't have to impose it, it just happened with the way we played.

earlier this year we were imposing it on teams. i was really impressed. it was what made me confident we were going to win it all.

but lately i don't see us imposing our will on other teams. the players have consistently said (nash and marion in particular and even coach d) that we're not running enough. does that sound like we're imposing our will on other teams? no. and the good teams just don't seem to allow us to do as we please b/c they're good teams and usually VERY well coached and our system is no longer a surprise. coaches, the good ones, are catching up. it's natural in sports.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's a pretty big caveat. Remember, the Clippers were pretty good last year.

pretty good i'll grant you, but no world beaters. and yeah, it is a caveat, but i still stand by my point, they didn't really "turn it on" come the playoffs, they just played well enough to win two hard-fought close series.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I meant deep into the playoffs. Getting to the WCF two years in a row is deep into the playoffs. Technically, Jalen Rose and Jumaine Jones also played in the finals, though they don't have an apparent role on this team right now.

jumaine is accurate, i don't think rose played in the playoffs at all in his career. correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Scot1]

Let me add my vote to the slightly hopeful side. The Suns have the talent to win, they don't seem to have significant injuries, the starters even got some rest last night. They have been playing disgracefully, but they have turned around on a dime from bad play before. Will they? Nobody knows, and the signs, while pretty bad, are very uncertain. So I think hope is defensible.

 

[mribnik]

jumaine is accurate, i don't think rose played in the playoffs at all in his career. correct me if i'm wrong.

He played in the 1999-2000 Finals (Lakers vs. Pacers). It appears Jalen had 2 30 point games and another 20+ point game.

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19992000.html

Edit: He actually averaged 23 ppg for the series.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2000.html

 

[arwillan]

He played in the 1999-2000 Finals (Lakers vs. Pacers). It appears Jalen had 2 30 point games and another 20+ point game.

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19992000.html

Edit: He actually averaged 23 ppg for the series.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2000.html

well thats promising, but he has got to get some meaningful minutes at the end here, especially if JJ is gonna keep on bricking his three's.

 

[elindholm]

It was Rose's performance in those 2000 playoffs that got him his big contract. He was an even bigger factor than Miller during their run that year.

 

[Covert Rain]

Jalen Rose getting benched after 3 good games and 1 bad is just another example of D'Antoni's mismanagement of the bench this season.

 

[Ballamania]

so pretty much what some are saying is that its not a big deal to lose like that to the warriors on national tv, to have ANOTHER player have a huge game against us,oh yeah, its meaningless with san antonio lurking. does anyone ever watch the spurs or mavs play regularly? ok, they are championship calibur teams and playing the same teams that the suns play. what i dont get is besides the game where the warriors beat the mavs, these teams handle their business. they dont get embarrassed or outcoached down the stretch of games. i always wish to see the mavs and spurs lose when they are on and even when they are losing they just seem to get right and win.its frustraing because thats not consistent with the suns. i've watched about 3 or 4 games in the past month to see these 2 teams lose and even when they are down by 15 they still come back. its PRIDE. good luck on thinking that this team wont make us nuts in the playoffs and none of this crap they are doing will show up then. i really hope some type of magic happens but that no DEFENSe, getting outrebounded, taking 50 jumpers to the oppositons 40 layups crap is getting old. what happened to the suns that used to blow out 75% of the leaugue last year without amare? get ready because i dont think this will be easy at all.

 

[arwillan]

so pretty much what some are saying is that its not a big deal to lose like that to the warriors on national tv, to have ANOTHER player have a huge game against us,oh yeah, its meaningless with san antonio lurking. does anyone ever watch the spurs or mavs play regularly? ok, they are championship calibur teams and playing the same teams that the suns play. what i dont get is besides the game where the warriors beat the mavs, these teams handle their business. they dont get embarrassed or outcoached down the stretch of games. i always wish to see the mavs and spurs lose when they are on and even when they are losing they just seem to get right and win.its frustraing because thats not consistent with the suns. i've watched about 3 or 4 games in the past month to see these 2 teams lose and even when they are down by 15 they still come back. its PRIDE. good luck on thinking that this team wont make us nuts in the playoffs and none of this crap they are doing will show up then. i really hope some type of magic happens but that no DEFENSe, getting outrebounded, taking 50 jumpers to the oppositons 40 layups crap is getting old. what happened to the suns that used to blow out 75% of the leaugue last year without amare? get ready because i dont think this will be easy at all.

exactly. the spurs and mavs have their offense and defense balanced, and they roll over the easy teams. the only time they really struggle is against the better teams in the league and thats how it should be


if we dont at least make it to the finals this year, i think D'antoni will be packing his bags. it will then be clear that either our players arent good enough (we all know they are) or that we arent being coached well enough (seems to be logical). i think we need a coach who can still let us be the number one offense in all categories like we are now but who can coach us into some solid defense.

though we all say these things, it seems the suns are 12th in defensive production

 

[mribnik]

so pretty much what some are saying is that its not a big deal to lose like that to the warriors on national tv, to have ANOTHER player have a huge game against us,oh yeah, its meaningless with san antonio lurking. does anyone ever watch the spurs or mavs play regularly? ok, they are championship calibur teams and playing the same teams that the suns play. what i dont get is besides the game where the warriors beat the mavs, these teams handle their business. they dont get embarrassed or outcoached down the stretch of games. i always wish to see the mavs and spurs lose when they are on and even when they are losing they just seem to get right and win.its frustraing because thats not consistent with the suns. i've watched about 3 or 4 games in the past month to see these 2 teams lose and even when they are down by 15 they still come back. its PRIDE. good luck on thinking that this team wont make us nuts in the playoffs and none of this crap they are doing will show up then. i really hope some type of magic happens but that no DEFENSe, getting outrebounded, taking 50 jumpers to the oppositons 40 layups crap is getting old. what happened to the suns that used to blow out 75% of the leaugue last year without amare? get ready because i dont think this will be easy at all.

Once again, the Suns standards are set pretty high. They're 14-5 since the all-star break, and while they have only had a few good performances, that still accounts for something. San Antonio has been destroying teams as of late, but I've seen Dallas struggle to beat quite a few crappy teams lately. I don't think it's a huge deal to have another player have a huge game against us. Bibby and Richardson couldn't miss from 3, and while the perimeter defense was poor, it's not like they were carving the Suns up all over, they were hitting long shots (some of Bibby's were well beyond the 3-point line). The defense was crap though, you're right.

On a related note, I absolutely hate watching the Suns players getting ready to double-team but never following through. They always seem very undecided on whether to help out or not, and the result is that they are never guarding anybody. The end result is a wide open layup or a three-pointer every time. A few years back when the Suns played the Spurs in the playoffs, they used to double down on Duncan immediately with Marion or another quick lanky player. It was pretty effective. The Suns got better at it last year against the Lakers as well. They immediately double-teamed Lamar Odom on the baseline and it worked pretty well. I have no idea why they are always so hesitant to do it now. If you're going to double, do it immediately, don't stay halfway between your defender and the guy you're going to double, it's worthless.

 

[Ballamania]

yeah, and we always double with a midget. our doubles are not always effeective because we double guys 6'9 and 6'10 with 6'2 and 6'3. i coach basketball and i know thats a recipe for disaster once that pass gets out

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's a pretty big caveat. Remember, the Clippers were pretty good last year.

how good is a team that doesn't even win 50 games? It's an okay playoff basketball team - nothing more, nothing less. we got to the WCF purely because of a cheduling quirk that had us avoiding both SA and Dallas, even though they both had better records than us and we barely made it there, even though we didn't play anyone who even scratched 50 wins. it was a great and memorable run, but not one (especially considering the turnover in key players) that really pertains to this club IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

jumaine is accurate, i don't think rose played in the playoffs at all in his career. correct me if i'm wrong.

your wrong - Jalen had one of his biggest years ever when Indy went to the Finals against the Lakers back 2000.

 

[arwillan]

your wrong - Jalen had one of his biggest years ever when Indy went to the Finals against the Lakers back 2000.

according to nba.com he had almost averaged a double double in the finals.

23 points and 8 rebs. sounds like something we can use

 

[mribnik]

how good is a team that doesn't even win 50 games? It's an okay playoff basketball team - nothing more, nothing less. we got to the WCF purely because of a cheduling quirk that had us avoiding both SA and Dallas, even though they both had better records than us and we barely made it there, even though we didn't play anyone who even scratched 50 wins. it was a great and memorable run, but not one (especially considering the turnover in key players) that really pertains to this club IMO.

Last years Clippers were a good team. Much like you were saying about Miami, The Clippers tanked at the end of the year to get a lower seed and take advantage of the scheduling quirk you speak of. They were a legitimate 50-win team though and due to the Suns injuries, created lots of problems for the Suns. That was a good series win IMO. You're right about everything falling the Suns way, but I'd say the Clippers were a very good team last year.

Edit: I could be wrong about the Clips tanking, but I remember there being a lot of discussion about it.

 

[arwillan]

Last years Clippers were a good team. Much like you were saying about Miami, The Clippers tanked at the end of the year to get a lower seed and take advantage of the scheduling quirk you speak of. They were a legitimate 50-win team though and due to the Suns injuries, created lots of problems for the Suns. That was a good series win IMO. You're right about everything falling the Suns way, but I'd say the Clippers were a very good team last year.

Edit: I could be wrong about the Clips tanking, but I remember there being a lot of discussion about it.

they also had a good leader in sam cassel, and a dominant block player (EB). i think they were a perfectly legit playoff team, and i think they may have given a healthy suns team a run for their money.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Last years Clippers were a good team. Much like you were saying about Miami, The Clippers tanked at the end of the year to get a lower seed and take advantage of the scheduling quirk you speak of. They were a legitimate 50-win team though and due to the Suns injuries, created lots of problems for the Suns. That was a good series win IMO. You're right about everything falling the Suns way, but I'd say the Clippers were a very good team last year.

Edit: I could be wrong about the Clips tanking, but I remember there being a lot of discussion about it.

the Clippers were what they were last year - a decent team and that's all. I'm not saying it wasn't a great series win - it was - with as short handed as we were, it was a miracle that we got where we did, but that doesn't make the Clippers any better or worse than they were last year. In the last month of the season, the Clips were 5-6 - or basically playing around .500 ball as they had been the entire season after they started out 14-5.

you want to talk about very good teams - I look at the Jazz, Houston and Detroit as very good teams - the Clips weren't on those team's level IMO.

 

[msdundee]

exactly. the spurs and mavs have their offense and defense balanced, and they roll over the easy teams. the only time they really struggle is against the better teams in the league and thats how it should be

It should be that way, but it isn't. Nobody can count on rolling over all the easy teams and it's not like a bad loss is unique. Spurs and Mavs have both lost to the Warriors (the Mavs twice, once by 17). Mavs lost to the Wizards on the road. Spurs also lost to the Hornets and this month to Boston -- definitely not among the "better teams in the league." Those last three were gimme games.

That's why those "easy teams" can be spoilers, especially this time of year and especially if they're out of the playoff race and playing with nothing to lose. Even the worst teams in the league have at least one player who can get hot and go on a tear.

 

[Skumbag]

Can't we all just get along?

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[jenna2891]

It should be that way, but it isn't. Nobody can count on rolling over all the easy teams and it's not like a bad loss is unique. Spurs and Mavs have both lost to the Warriors (the Mavs twice, once by 17). Mavs lost to the Wizards on the road. Spurs also lost to the Hornets and this month to Boston -- definitely not among the "better teams in the league." Those last three were gimme games.

That's why those "easy teams" can be spoilers, especially this time of year and especially if they're out of the playoff race and playing with nothing to lose. Even the worst teams in the league have at least one player who can get hot and go on a tear.

exactly.

 

[Lorenzo]

It should be that way, but it isn't. Nobody can count on rolling over all the easy teams and it's not like a bad loss is unique. Spurs and Mavs have both lost to the Warriors (the Mavs twice, once by 17). Mavs lost to the Wizards on the road. Spurs also lost to the Hornets and this month to Boston -- definitely not among the "better teams in the league." Those last three were gimme games.

That's why those "easy teams" can be spoilers, especially this time of year and especially if they're out of the playoff race and playing with nothing to lose. Even the worst teams in the league have at least one player who can get hot and go on a tear.

the mavs also started 0-4. The mavs haven't been without close games to teams that have bad records. they seem to find ways to win those games most of the time. the bucks are an example. The last time they played in MIL. dallas was down by like 15 late in the 3rd qtr. They came back and actually held the bucks scoreless from the field in the final 5 mins. This last game against the bucks the mavs gave up 62 pts in the first half. Redd was torching them. But they held redd in check in the 4th qtr and found a way to win despite the loss of their mvp. despite missing key free throws(diop). Right now the mavs are finding ways to get it done regardless of who they play. Now they've had some tough losses. Like the L.A. lakers loss, the phoenix loss, ect. but most of the time they find ways to get it done.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

With due respect to the initial poster who began this thread, it's posts like these that keep me away from here and the Cardinal forum during the season. There's way too much jumping off of the collective bridges after a loss, that makes it almost mind numbing.