Sopranos

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He suckered me this whole last year of epsiodes. It seemed that every event this season was geared to the ending and then there was no ending. I have held a belief for awhile now that directors and writers lack the ability to end their production with the same creativity that goes into the body of their work. He owed us, the viewers, nothing but in return I owe him nothing in any future productions he might conjure up. No biggie. Just a TV show , but he can KMA.

He won't lose any sleep on the way to the bank with my critique.


A simple utterance from Tony , would have been a helluva lot better than a blank screen devoid of sound. Tell me you didn't switch channels to see if your cable went out.

As usual with The Sopranos, this ending scene makes you think and is not an easy and tidy payoff for you. And the more I think about it the more I really like the ending. An honest sense of dread in the final minutes. Was Tony actually shot or are they just living a life of extreme fear and paranoia? As the Journey song shown on the screen said moments before "Anyway You Want It".
 

Treesquid PhD

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Good ending, actualy making people think a bit isn't a bad thing. But in the era of Saw 3 and the such I don't expect anything less.
 

D-Dogg

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Ok, I'm so much better with the ending now. I actually like it, in retrospect.

I posted over at digg:
I tend to agree with the "the audience was whacked" concept. We have been removed from the show, but their lives go on...with the typical heavy tension for Tony. The lyrics for the song bear this out...

Working hard to get my fill,
Everybody wants a thrill
Payin anything to roll the dice,
Just one more time
Some will win, some will lose
Some were born to sing the blues
Oh, the movie never ends
It goes on and on and on and on



Their lives do go on and on and on and on. I like the concept of Tony getting whacked, but there's no substance for it with the war with NY over, relative safety at the moment. Chase just wanted us to get antsy, expecting something bigger and left it "normal." How many times has a huge mob war been hinted at, big things on the horizon only to fizzle out or end quickly? People complain about that, but the show has always been about ratcheting up the tension and then slipping back into "normalcy." Which he did again for the finale. I hated it last night, but love it this morning.

The show is "just a big nothing" as Liv used to say. It has never been about action; it has always been a look into the lives of this family. Very dumb stuff sometimes that really didn't even relate to anything. Just things that happened. Showing us that a day in the life of a mobster wasn't glamour and violence 24/7, and that it could be boring, depressing, happy, etc. just like anything else.

We usually watch with a couple and the wife always gets mad because things are set to happen and then nothing happens. I never mind, because I never saw the show as an "event" show as in things that happen drive it...rather, it is a people show as it really focuses on Tony and crew more than anything.

The finale closed up enough holes for me (a guide for the future of the kids, nothing changed for Carm, etc.) that I'm fine with it. Closure would be nice, but I like us just being pulled away from them abruptly. Chase just whacked the audience.
 
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conraddobler

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Oh there will be a movie, it's all about the almighty dollar and yes the actors will pretend not to want to do the movie until the $ show up then they'll change their mind, it's all a game.

I thought parts of the series were brilliantly written, I loved the show and like a schlep I'll go to the movie, there's no way I can say in honesty I won't and that's fine.

The movie is going to be very hard to do though, you can't develop plot lines that take a whole season to work through in a movie, although you can play off the show it's still not enough time to do the same thing as the show did. On top of that in a movie you have to make it somewhat self contained for those who've never watched the show.

My take is that they'll make some abomination of it as a movie, cash with it and numerous sequels and laugh all the way to the bank and in the meantime ruin the entire legacy of the show.
 

conraddobler

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I didn't mind the ending so much, although it was a bit jarring and I don't really appreciate the Jedi mind.... but other than that I didn't want to see Tony die really so I'm good with it.
 

DeAnna

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I didn’t like the ending. I kinda interpreted like Ryan – life goes on and they are still chasing the American dream. I don’t think he got shot; I mean in a rinky-dink diner with his whole family at the table? Was that the Russian guy that went to the bathroom? (I just threw that one in for KloD) Why was Meadow having such a hard time parking?

Too many loose ends – did Syl make it out of his coma? Did AJ supplant Chris as the mafia-producer?

Phil’s death was gruesome – thanks to his buddy in the FBI but I thought the whole terrorist thing would carry more weight.
 

Southpaw

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Okay, here is my Heavy take.

They will never change. Everyone who is left is their same hypocritical self.

One Final Look at `Sopranos' Characters

By JAKE COYLE
The Associated Press
Monday, June 11, 2007; 8:37 AM

NEW YORK -- The eruption heard across the country Sunday night at 10:03 p.m. EDT: Collective exclamations of "What?" "Are you kidding me?" and "#$&!?"

The choose-your-own-adventure ending of "The Sopranos" left endless loose ends that seemed to parody the typical audience expectations for a series finale. If you were bothered by the never-heard-from-again Russian who escaped assassination in the Pine Barrens, well, you're probably not very happy now.


Meanwhile, "Sopranos" creator David Chase was in France, unreachable to all press, according to an HBO publicist. You might call it a safe house, far away from the giant hit he just ordered on "Sopranos" watchers.

But as ambiguous as the conclusion of the HBO drama was, the 86th episode _ titled "Made in America" _ still left us with final, indelible images of the main characters.

TONY SOPRANO: Many expected Tony to die, but the mob boss managed to live through the episode; whether he lives much past that is a matter of subjectivity. Were the shady-looking characters hanging around the diner in the final scene there to kill Tony? Were they undercover cops? Neither? With a likely indictment hanging over his head, our last impression of Tony (James Gandolfini) was of a relatively peaceful family man who had come to terms with many of his headaches, including Uncle Junior (whom he had disavowed after Junior shot him) and therapy (which he disavowed after Dr. Melfi ended their sessions). He showed interest in both in the finale. His kids continue to disappoint, but perhaps not too much. Any judgment of Tony's lasting mental state, though, would take pages and pages, and still leave unresolved issues.

PHIL LEOTARDO: In the battle of Tony vs. Phil, New Jersey vs. New York, Tony won. Phil (Frank Vincent) met his fate at a gas station where he was shot, and then had his skull accidentally run over for good measure. Tony was able to turn Leotardo's crew after even they acknowledged that the New York boss had gone "too far" in his war. Tony blamed the "tension" partly on Leotardo's inherited insecurity from the deceased New York boss Johnny "Sack" Sacramoni, a veiled reference to Johnny Sack's sensitivity to his wife's weight. As always, slight comments linger, even beyond the grave.

A.J. SOPRANO: Tony's son was his old self. He didn't kill himself, his dad or figure prominently in the mob war fallout. Instead, A.J. (Robert Iler) griped about America and quoted "Yeets." He accidentally burned his SUV to a crisp, but also finally kissed his model friend Rhiannon. He decided he wanted to join the Army, but was dissuaded when his parents got him a job on a movie, which was put into production after "Danny" Baldwin passed a script to Tony. That future seemed no more likely to last for A.J. than any other, but it was he who warmed his family in the final scene by quoting Tony in wanting to "remember the times that were good."

MEADOW SOPRANO: Tony's daughter (Jamie-Lynn Sigler) mainly remained on the sidelines in the finale, as she had for much of the season. She and Patrick Parisi are headed for marriage, and he might be getting her a job at his law firm once she's completed law school. When Tony pressed her on why she wasn't still going to medical school, Meadow said she became interested in law only after seeing the police badger her family _ perhaps furthering Tony's guilt. We also learned that Meadow is an absolutely terrible parallel parker.

AGENT DWIGHT HARRIS: We learned more about the FBI agent (Matt Servitto) in the final episode than in all those before it: His job is hurting his relationship, and he's having an affair with another agent. Harris also supplied Tony with the approximate location of Leotardo. Working terrorism, he clearly misses the more understandable, exciting world of the Mafia. When told of Leotardo's death, he cheered: "We're gonna win this thing!" There were, though, several reveals of FBI surveillance on Tony, including phone taps. And Carlo Gervasi was rumored to have flipped after his son was arrested for selling ecstasy.

CARMELA SOPRANO: Carmela (Edie Falco) remained a faithful wife to Tony and was seen flipping through real estate brochures, suggesting real estate remained her devotion. She also grown tired of Tony's use of his depression as a crutch _ similar to how Tony viewed Christopher Moltisanti's alcoholism. When Tony spoke to A.J.'s therapist about the hurt his mother caused, Carmela's eyes rolled.

PAULIE "WALNUTS" GUALTIERI: The Soprano soldier (Tony Sirico) proved both his allegiance to Tony and his deep distrust of felines. A cat adopted by the crew that sat and stared at a photo of Christopher particularly bugged Paulie, who thought it might signify a "jinx" following Christopher's death. Though Paulie was suspected of cooperating with the New York family, he proved loyal to Tony. When Tony offered Paulie Carlo's job, Paulie hesitated, but eventually took it. In between, he showed he was feeling his age, and was haunted by sighting of the Virgin Mary _ in the Bada Bing, of all places.

SILVIO DANTE: After being shot last week on orders from Leotardo, Silvio (Steven Van Zandt) was only shown briefly laid up unconscious in a hospital bed, his wife quietly filing his toenails. No mention was made of any recovery for Tony's second in command.

JANICE SOPRANO: Tony's sister and the wife of the late Bobby Bacala was shown in mourning, but feeling relatively resilient. Janice (Aida Turturro) joked to Tony: "I need to watch my weight. I need to snag another husband."

CORRADO "JUNIOR" SOPRANO: Tony had long abandoned his increasingly senile uncle and former head of the family after Junior (Dominic Chianese) accidentally shot Tony at the start of the sixth season. But Tony visited Junior at what appeared to be a state-run old-age home, to tell him to leave his money (if he can remember where he buried it) to Bacala's children. Junior didn't recognize Tony; when Tony reminded Junior that he once ran Northern New Jersey with Tony's father, Junior replied: "We did? That's nice."

DR. JENNIFER MELFI: Melfi (Lorraine Bracco) was a no-show in the finale after her abrupt termination of therapy with Tony in the penultimate episode. Tony appeared to use A.J.'s therapist as a Melfi stand-in, divulging, "You see, I never could please my mother." You can take the mobster out of therapy, but you can't take therapy out of the mobster.
 

Gaddabout

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I sometimes think I've missed out on American culture because I've watched every episode of the Soprano's with an instinctive resistance to root for Tony. It was often difficult to watch without an identifiable hero, and I'm sorry, but I already feel we herald anti-heroes far too much in our culture.

What I enjoyed about the show is the same thing I guarded against. When I first started watching I was certain the writers were going to attempt to redeem TS, which is an American fantasy: Take all the interesting quirks to a dark character but turn him into the ultimate unwilling hero. A mobster as the lobsided grinning pirate/scruffy nerf herder. I've always been more of Luke Skywalker-type than a Han Solo-type, but we seem very rare these days. TS wasn't redeemed because he couldn't be, which was the escape hatch so many viewers were looking for to justify their own fascination with the show. I admire the writers for taking that bold step. If they had delivered true justice, practically everyone on that show would've died a miserable death, but it wouldn't satisfy the neo-reality they had created. Instead, justice was delivered to the audience by relaying the kind of anxiety every mobster must live with. In some ways I think the writers were attempting to redeem themselves.

The ending sort of parallels the sympatico I think I've shared with the writers. On one hand there is something fascinating about a life that seems without remorse, willingly above the law and even social mores. I suppose to white guys from the suburbs, it's the ultimate voyeur experience to witness that kind of personal freedom. On the other hand we see the toll it takes, the constant denial of shame and guilt, the finality of denying the totality of the human experience. Upon closer inspection, it's more appalling to think someone would aspire to foist this lifestyle on themselves, where once it was just appalling to think to someone could consciously commit such evil on others. The writers failed to apologize -- rightfully -- for these characters because as badly as we feel for them, there is no justifiable empathy.

Movie or not, the ending was the correct one, IMO. There is no relief, there is no closure, there is no peace in this world. Prosperity is an illusion. Eat, drink and be merry, or at least pretend to as a show of strength and power, for tomorrow you are likely to be whacked on the toilet by your best friend. At least you should anticipate it to happen -- half out of mercy, half out of envy, entirely out of justice. In quiet there is the ambiguity of relationship that so many of us living lesser lives of power take for granted, and the sum total is wasted life rolled up in a ball of conflict and confusion.
 
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MigratingOsprey

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i'm becoming more comfortable with it, but I still don't like it

something I heard today and I'm probably leaning towards is that Chase killed the audience

we entered the family's life - we followed them around - they always did what they were going to do, regardless of what we thought they should do

the program has never been a narrative - you never really looked through tony's eyes before - we were all just voyuers into this world - then our eyes went black at the height of tension - everyone went WTF, checked their connections, tivos, etc - we never saw it coming

their life goes on with drama and tension - we have exited their lives
 

KloD

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I'm actually a little surprised at how many people are disappointed with the ending. We didn't get a beginning, why do we need an ending? Oh well, I'm satisfied (my man attitude).

I do agree the money these folks will make does open up for a movie to be made no matter how sick of the characters they may be.
 

Bada0Bing

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I loved the ending. I had been wondering all week how I was going to feel if he got whacked. I'm glad it didn't happen. That last scene had so much suspense that it was driving me crazy.

I watched most of this episode a 2nd time when I went to bed. It's actually one of the funnier episodes in a while. The cat scenes where hilarious and Paulie was absolutely classic. Pretending to sweep the floor when he sees Tony coming, sitting out there holding that ridiculous reflector thing, etc.

It was really interesting to get some more detail on the FBI guy. How his life was not all that dissimilar to Tony's.

I really doubt that there'll be a movie. I think we're all done getting our glimpse into their lives and like was mentioned earlier, we've been whacked.
 

Renz

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When something is touted as a "final episode" you expect more closure than what we got.

If the audience is expected to write their own ending then the show's writers should return their paychecks.
 

D-Dogg

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If the audience is expected to write their own ending then the show's writers should return their paychecks.

As of the sixth season, the whereabouts of Valery, the Russian, remain unknown, despite demand for continuity from many fans. David Chase has said in the past that the episode was not intended to evolve into a story arc.

HBO's promotional material lists him as dead, although it does so with a question mark. On the fate of the Russian, Terence Winter said:
"That's the question I get asked more than any other. It drives people crazy: 'Where's the Russian? What happened to the Russian?' We could say, 'Well, he got out and there's a big mob war with the Russians,' or 'He crawled off and died.' But we wanted to keep it ambiguous. You know, not everything gets answered in life."

Chase said "They shot a guy. Who knows where he went? Who cares about some Russian? This is what Hollywood has done to America. Do you have to have closure on every little thing? Isn't there any mystery in the world? It's a murky world out there. It's a murky life these guys lead. And by the way, I do know where the Russian is. But I'll never say because so many people got so pissy about it."

That's the way he thinks. I like it.
 

Chaplin

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When something is touted as a "final episode" you expect more closure than what we got.

If the audience is expected to write their own ending then the show's writers should return their paychecks.

Well you're still talking about it today, so they must have done something right.
 

D-Dogg

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What's nice is he did enough to leave enough breadcrumbs to support 3 main theories, IMO. Each with pros and cons, points to argue for them and against them.

1) Life goes on in general and nothing happens at all. same ol sopranos.
2) Tony is whacked.
3) The audience is whacked.
 

DeAnna

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Someone on another website mentioned this:

"after searching around, here's what was found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he."


Don't know if it holds water, tho.
 

CaptTurbo

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Someone on another website mentioned this:

"after searching around, here's what was found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he."

.


3? Are you counting the boy scouts?
 

KloD

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Someone on another website mentioned this:

"after searching around, here's what was found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he."

Don't know if it holds water, tho.

That is really interesting. Wouldn't Tony have recognized Phil's nephew?
 

D-Dogg

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Someone on another website mentioned this:

"after searching around, here's what was found out. The guy at the bar is also credited as Nikki Leotardo. The same actor played him in the first part of season 6 during a brief sit down concerning the future of Vito. That wasn't that long ago. Apparently, he is the nephew of Phil. Phil's brother Nikki Senior was killed in 1976 in a car accident. Absolutely Genius!!!! David Chase is truly rewarding the true fans who pay attention to detail.

So the point would have been that life continues and we may never know the end of the Sopranos. But if you pay attention to the history, you will find that all the answers lie in the characters in the restaurant. The trucker was the brother of the guy who was robbed by Christopher in Season 2. Remember the DVD players? The trucker had to identify the body. The boy scouts were in the train store and the brothas at the end were the ones who tried to kill Tony and only clipped him in the ear (was that season 2 or 3?).

Absolutely incredible!!!! There were three people in the restaurant who had reason to kill Tony and then it just ends. This was Chase's way of proving that he will not escape his past. It will not go on forever despite that he would like it to "don't stop". Not the fans!!! Tony would like it to keep going but just as we have to say goodbye, so does he."


Don't know if it holds water, tho.


It isn't true. None of the actors in the diner scene had other credits. And Tony killed one of the black guys in that season one scene.

It's a hot, and completely UNTRUE rumor.
 

DeAnna

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3? Are you counting the boy scouts?

Apparently they are.

Someone else pointed out also a conversation where Bobby and Tony talked about what it feels like when you die. Tony supposedly said "everything blacks out." Kinda what happened to everyone's screen last night - so they are assuming that he did get killed.
 

D-Dogg

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Apparently they are.

Someone else pointed out also a conversation where Bobby and Tony talked about what it feels like when you die. Tony supposedly said "everything blacks out." Kinda what happened to everyone's screen last night - so they are assuming that he did get killed.

Also supports the "we the audience got whacked" concept. We saw black...their lives go on but we can't see it any longer. We got killed. The ultimate hit.
 

D-Dogg

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3? Are you counting the boy scouts?

The incorrect information counts the three people as:

  1. Trucker hat USA guy
  2. Members Only Jacket guy
  3. Two young black guys.

Again though, they aren't anyone special...just guys. Maybe to make you *think* they are those guys, but they aren't credited as such. The entire diner scene was a misdirection.


Someone on some site had an interesting take on Meadow and her parking too...instead of birth control, her doctor appointment was because she found out she was pregnant...her frazzled state was because of that. Interesting, but we'll never know because Chase killed us off. :D
 

DeAnna

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LoL, on another site someone said maybe Meadow walked in, saw the gunman and knocked the gun out of his hand.

Then some wisearse said "what? she can't even parallel park." :lol:
 
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