Spiderman has a heart problem??

[Pariah]

what? please show me where I said he was headed to the HOF or anywhere near that??

not being labeled a loafer? You might want to reread some early posts

Show me somewhere where anyone called him a bust or a loafer and I'll show you where you called him a HOFer.

There was a report about concerns about him not finishing routes. Appearently, it's a stone cold fact that that's what he did. There was then speculation as to why he was doing that. Injury? Still learning how to compete in the NFL? Questions about his heart? That's a little different than "labeling" him a loafer.

 

[clif]

Show me somewhere where anyone called him a bust or a loafer and I'll show you where you called him a HOFer.

There was a report about concerns about him not finishing routes. Appearently, it's a stone cold fact that that's what he did. There was then speculation as to why he was doing that. Injury? Still learning how to compete in the NFL? Questions about his heart? That's a little different than "labeling" him a loafer.

wait.. title of the thread..

Spiderman has a heart problem

here is one

he's allegedly loafing on routes

here is one

Seeing what Fitzgerald got as a contract I think it is totally appropriate to question something like him loafing on routes. He did hang around Moss you know and it's something he needs to address because several people are mentioning that and with his $ and considering the type of person we led to believe he was, strong work ethic great kid etc. Then for that kind of money I want his arse hustling every freaking down or we got seriously ripped!!!!

come on pariah..

 

[Pariah]

wait.. title of the thread..


here is one


here is one



come on pariah..

I've got news for you Clif, those aren't labels. The closest one you have there is the title of the thread, but that has not one, but two question marks after it.

Fitz didn't finish routes, and people are trying to figure out why. Nobody came out and said "Fitz is a bust" or "Fitz is lazy."

 

[AZCB34]

"Fitz plays when Fitz wants to." -Fitz

 

[clif]

I've got news for you Clif, those aren't labels. The closest one you have there is the title of the thread, but that has not one, but two question marks after it.

Fitz didn't finish routes, and people are trying to figure out why. Nobody came out and said "Fitz is a bust" or "Fitz is lazy."

Lets not argue over semantics...

 

[Russ Smith]

Williams is definitely an impact guy. I was looking at Russ' posts more as a knock on Rogers than about Williams.

So far he is better than Rogers was. And I like Rogers too.

 

[Pariah]

Lets not argue over semantics...

Whatever.

 

[C-MACK]

Here's what I have heard about Fitz's heart. When he was at the minicamps guys thought he was going to be a hard worker but that seemed to change in training camp after he signed his contract. Guys began resenting him. He ate lunch with the coaches and was seen at DG's side all the time. His dad would drive up to the field and hang out like he was part of the team. When he was practicing before and after the injury players thought he was going 3/4 speed unless he just isn't that fast. They were pissed that the coaches never did anything about it. After about a week of this the OC finally went off on him for loafing it but it has been a recurrent problem since then. People on this board talk about him like they know him saying he's a hard worker and great person. The fact is none of us know what kind of person he is and if he is a hard worker. We only have what we see on TV and what his college and pro coaches say about him.

A player on the Cards defense said he was loafing if that counts for anything. Can I confirm this by saying who it was that said this. No. But I figure it's better than pulling the I know more but can't tell stuff. You can say it's bs and I couldn't prove you wrong so take it for what it's worth. All I know is that is how at least one member of the team sees it.

 

[CardLogic]

A player on the Cards defense said he was loafing if that counts for anything. Can I confirm this by saying who it was that said this. No. But I figure it's better than pulling the I know more but can't tell stuff. You can say it's bs and I couldn't prove you wrong so take it for what it's worth. All I know is that is how at least one member of the team sees it.

Fair enough C-MACK, so you are saying that you have talked to one of the Cardinals players and this was their take, correct?

I am not trying to bust your chops, I just think that your comments are significant and want to understand if it is direct or friend of a friend of a friend type information.

This information goes contrary to the "official" reports of Fitz staying on the field at the end of practice to do additional work. If Fitz is loafing in practice, taking plays off, this early in his career it definately is an issue, and a major concern! Also anytime teamates sense and see actual favortism, that is not based upon on field performance, it is damaging to team unity and phsyce!

 

[MadCardDisease]

Personally I think this is all BS. First off "Spiderman" is a lame nickname. Second Fitz has a ton of heart.

I've keyed on Fitz during the game and he is always pumped up and full of enthusiasm. He's always clapping his hand or trying to get the other guys pumped up as they go to huddle up.

Did any of you that question his heart see him make that block in the 4th quarter to spring Williams for a first down. He never gave up until the whistle was blown. This kid is a player and has a ton of enthusiasm for the game!

 

[SECTION 11]

Personally I think this is all BS. First off "Spiderman" is a lame nickname.

That is hilarious.

 

[Lex]

I thought Spider Man was a jockey with a broken leg?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Show me somewhere where anyone called him a bust or a loafer and I'll show you where you called him a HOFer.

There was a report about concerns about him not finishing routes. Appearently, it's a stone cold fact that that's what he did. There was then speculation as to why he was doing that. Injury? Still learning how to compete in the NFL? Questions about his heart? That's a little different than "labeling" him a loafer.

WHAT?

Stone cold facts?

Where do you people get your information? I had never heard that before.

The original arguement to this whole thread was S11 spouting off about why Fitz was a bad pick. Had nothign to do with RW until later on. I wont deny RW is having a superb year and is a superb talent, I am not however ready to start crying like some of you that "Damn we eneded up with Fitz when we could have had RW" It is only game 3.

If you odnt believe Fitz has the potential to be every bit as good if not better than RW, take a look at Fitz college numbers inparticular the areas ont he field he scored from. He is not, as some people would like to believe-although I doubt they watched him much-only good for the red zone. That is total and complate BS and has been debunked numerous times.

Again, my issue is not with RW it is qitht he report that Fitz is lazy, has no heart, doesnt finsih routes or whatever you would like to call it. That has never once been a knock on him and now all of a sudden you people take it as gospel since it was written on a message board or reported by Jurecki?

Come on most of you guys are better than that!

Oh S11, Jackson at #3 would have been the biggest-let me repeat THE BIGGEST mistake this franchise could have made since Buddy Ryan. Ask Parcells why he passed on him, ask Detroit....

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

My argument is that Fitz was a bad pick because Steven Jackson was a better one.

Thats absurd.

You can argue there are 6-8 guys who might have been a better pick than Fitz at #3.....But Steven jackson is NOT one of them!

 

[kerouac9]

You honestly think Fitzgerald is no more talented than Poole, Williams, or Johnson? We must be watching a different team.

No, pete. That's not what I said. What I said was that Larry Fitzgerald right now is not doing anything different or more specactular than Poole or Williams. None of them are getting separation. None of them are getting yards after the catch. None of them are scoring TDs. What, based on what's going on right now on the field, is the difference between these players? As far as I can see, nothing besides a flea-flicker possibly designed to make Fitz look good.

What's the off-field difference between the players? About $15 million. What are we paying for? Fitzgerald, we were told all through camp and before the draft, was a "polished" finished product. Is this as good as it gets?

Expectations are higher for Fitz than the other WRs on the roster. That's what you get for being the #3 overall pick in a draft rife with wideouts. I'm not seeing what makes him special. Please, tell me.

 

[kerouac9]

Of the 12 Td catches Fitz had at Pitt his final year 8 of them were over 25 yards and 5 of them over 50 yards.

Of his 69 catches he had 21 of them over 20 yards, 14 over 35 yards, and 6 over 50yards

Nah he isnt big play at all. All he does is catch 5 yards hitches right?

Come on, you have it in your mind that Fitz is a Keyshawn clone and you couldnt be further from the truth!

I dont understand the 'ability to get open' comment. They have relativley the same number of catches....are you saying Fitz isnt open and thus is being thrown to less?

Great. He did well in college, against a bunch of crappy schools. Against the one team where he played an NFL-caliber cornerback, he was totally shut down. Are we going back to this discussion? Really? Seriously? We have three NFL games of performance to look at. Do we really need to go back to the college scores? I bet Marcel Shipp had a bunch of long runs at UMass, but that doesn't mean anything here. Maybe he does have the ability to run more than five-yard hitches, but he hasn't really shown the ability to get open on them, or turn the 5-yard hitch into a 25- or 75-yard gain.

When I was talking about "ablilty to get open," I was referring to this comment:

[Roy Williams] does[n't] have any more ability to 'get open' thatn does Fitz

That's the way I interpreted it. I totally disagree. I think that it's pretty obvious that Williams has a much greater ability to get open than Fitzgerald has shown. Fitz's one "big play" was a trick play, and he was still bracketed by DBs.

 

[jstadvl]

It's my understanding

the kid stays after practice and works routes and catches passes for an extra half an hour. I don't think it's his work ethic. I think he's hurt, should be spelled by Poole periodically.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Great. He did well in college, against a bunch of crappy schools. Against the one team where he played an NFL-caliber cornerback, he was totally shut down. Are we going back to this discussion? Really? Seriously? We have three NFL games of performance to look at. Do we really need to go back to the college scores? I bet Marcel Shipp had a bunch of long runs at UMass, but that doesn't mean anything here. Maybe he does have the ability to run more than five-yard hitches, but he hasn't really shown the ability to get open on them, or turn the 5-yard hitch into a 25- or 75-yard gain.

When I was talking about "ablilty to get open," I was referring to this comment:



That's the way I interpreted it. I totally disagree. I think that it's pretty obvious that Williams has a much greater ability to get open than Fitzgerald has shown. Fitz's one "big play" was a trick play, and he was still bracketed by DBs.

So you want to forget about years of college stats for ROOKIES and base everything on 3 games as a pro? LOL hold on let me wipe the tears....

Umm yeah....ok...thats unfair. They have played three games and yet RW is a stud but they have played 20 college games and b/c Fitz had great numbers you choose to ignore that? Once again brilliant

Oh and btw the whole "He played Miami and got shut down by a corner" has been debunked now about 30 times, but of course your narrow view wont allow you to grasp that.

You are so predictable K9 it 's funny. You latch onto players and just wont let them go-no matter what happens.. Vick, Levar Fischer, Adrian Wilson, and now RW. Just like you had excuses for Vicks play Sunday, you will have excuses for Fitz if he has a great 'breakout' game.
It couldnt possibley be him (like it couldnt have possibly been the Cards defense that shut down the almighty Vick) it must of been because the cornerback he was playing against was hurt, or blah blah blah...yada,yada,yada


Tired and weak.

 

[Russ Smith]

the kid stays after practice and works routes and catches passes for an extra half an hour. I don't think it's his work ethic. I think he's hurt, should be spelled by Poole periodically.

I tend to agree and I sincerely HOPE we're right. If this is the real Fitz, he's even less explosive than I thought he would be. Great hands, going to be very good, just not fast and that's what I feel this offense needs, some gamebreakers.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Well not if he doesn't consider yards per catch and touchdowns as important as sheer number of catches.

but of course if those numbers supported his case, he WOULD think they were more important.

Bottom line is points win games, one guy has 4 TD's, one has zero. Roy has taken up for grab balls in traffic and turned them into TD's.

If Harrington is such a great WR how come Tai Streets didn't do that? How come Rogers played 5 games with him last year and had 5YPC less and 1 less TD than Roy has put up in 3 games?

At some point you have to see that Roy is doing a lot of this by himself.

NOt picking on you Pariah I have clif on ignore so I only saw his post when you replied to it.

Still too early to declare a winner in the Roy Williams vs. Fitz battle.

Lets not forget that Williams had a history of injuries and also some character questions while at UT. I put about as much stock in Fitz loafing on plays as I do in the tidy bowl man.

Also, I'll point out that, as far as the draft, you take the good with the bad. Its not an exact science.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

the kid stays after practice and works routes and catches passes for an extra half an hour. I don't think it's his work ethic. I think he's hurt, should be spelled by Poole periodically.

I tend to agree more with this than any other lame brain half baked theory out there. Not once have I ever heard where Fitz doesnt have heart or is lazy, doesnt finish routes etc. All reports i hear where thathe worked hard after practice to learn the system.

Does it happen that after a player gets a contract they change? of course, but not very likely in this case.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I put about as much stock in Fitz loafing on plays as I do in the tidy bowl man.

.

No someone already said it was a "stone-cold' lock he loafs and doesnt finish routes , I am not sure who, but I would like to see that report!

 

[HookemCards]

Still too early to declare a winner in the Roy Williams vs. Fitz battle.

Lets not forget that Williams had a history of injuries and also some character questions while UT. I put about as much stock in Fitz loafing on plays as I do in the tidy bowl man.

Also, I'll point out that, as far as the draft, you take the good with the bad. Its not an exact science.

Well I've seen this thing about RW's alleged injuries in college, but still other than missing one or two games to injury in 4 yrs, there's not much to it, but the character issues are something I've never heard before. Please enlighten us.

I agree with those who say its too early to judge Fitz, he may be a great reciever, however he will never be a speed guy. RW's superior speed is well documented (ran 4.37 on slow track at proday), and was known long before the draft. This team needs speed at wideout, and if what C-Mack says is true, BJ isn't going to provide it.

Looking back at the draft, it was clearly a very strong WR draft and pretty weak RB draft. Also historically, rookie RBs have an easier time adjusting to the pro game than rookie WRs. Green knew both of these things, and decided to get one of the great WR's last year, let him develop a year with the rest of the young guys, then next year, grab one of the very good RB's coming out (Benson, Brown, Williams, McClendon, Gore, Harris, Sproles), since they take less time to develop. There is no way you can convince me that Green thought we were set at RB with Smith and Shipp. I think Green was right about taking a WR at 3, he just was wrong about which to take, thats why I was hoping the Raiders would take Fitz.

 

[black]

Fitz is the real deal, and he's only 21 years old. 21! He's still got alot of growing to do and it will be in a Cardinal uni! Kudos to Green and Graves.

 

[Russ Smith]

Still too early to declare a winner in the Roy Williams vs. Fitz battle.

Lets not forget that Williams had a history of injuries and also some character questions while at UT. I put about as much stock in Fitz loafing on plays as I do in the tidy bowl man.

Also, I'll point out that, as far as the draft, you take the good with the bad. Its not an exact science.

Dont' recall character issues, the knocks on Roy were lots of leg muscle pulls, and that people said he seemed to be lazy at times. Didn't get in trouble that I recall. Remember Roy as a senior VOLUNTEERED to be on special teams, first game of the season he nearly blocked a punt, got called for a silly roughing penalty and I couldn't believe my eyes when I realized who the heck it was.

Roy stuck around for 4 years knowing full well he'd go top 10 maybe top 5(rated ahead of Rogers by most scouts) if he'd come out.

The big knock on him other than injuries was he wasn't very polished and seemed to get by largely on talent, that's because he didn't have the advantage that Fitz did growing up with teh Vikings and then having a good college coaching staff. Remember all the talk around the draft 2 years ago about how Chris Simms had been misused in college?