Spiderman has a heart problem??

[vince56]

Yo bro, Holmes is 5'9 210, Jackson is 6'2 235...they are completly different runners. Holmes is a scat back that has speed and Jackson is a power back that runs north south...they are nothing alike.

Holmes is smaller, but I wouldn't quite call him a scat back. His running style is very similiar IMO. I'm not claiming any of these guys are power backs, mind you, they're a great mix of power and speed, as I said before.

 

[SECTION 11]

Your comparing a RB touches to a WR touches?


Come on S11.....nice try though!

You're right. RB's have more value to an offense.

 

[clif]

how can people try to compare Roy williams production to that of Fitz is beyond me.

The main thing that kills the arguement is that Roy is catching passes from a guy who is one of the most least sacked QB's in the league. More chances to throw...more chances to catch and score.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

You're right. RB's have more value to an offense.

Value? If by that you mean a great rb is more likely to break open a game quicker han a great WR, I would agree with that....


Partly because he touches the ball twice as many times as a WR

 

[SECTION 11]

What do you do when you have the best rookie receiver in the NFL?
You draft another one and pay him 10 times more. Makes no sense at all.

At least Boldin can break plays. Fitzgerald is toast as soon as he gets it.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Holmes is smaller, but I wouldn't quite call him a scat back. His running style is very similiar IMO. I'm not claiming any of these guys are power backs, mind you, they're a great mix of power and speed, as I said before.

H eis not a scat back but he is more of an LT type not a power runner at all. Williams is a power runner, Lewis is pwoer etc, Holmes does not fit that mold IMO.

 

[SECTION 11]

Partly because he touches the ball twice as many times as a WR

That's half my argument. The other half is Quan and an inexperienced quarterback.

You don't force your young QB to make plays if you don't have to. We put ourselves in the situation we're in right now on offense.
You want to take heat of McCown, take double teams off of Boldin? Then draft a running back. Preferably one that picks up 6 yards on first down.

 

[vince56]

H eis not a scat back but he is more of an LT type not a power runner at all. Williams is a power runner, Lewis is pwoer etc, Holmes does not fit that mold IMO.

OK, then we agree to disagree

See, I think of Holmes, Williams, Jackson all as similiar runners. I wouldn't call any of them power runners. The bus is a power runner, J. Lewis is a power runner.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

What do you do when you have the best rookie receiver in the NFL?
You draft another one and pay him 10 times more. Makes no sense at all.

At least Boldin can break plays. Fitzgerald is toast as soon as he gets it.

See now your changing the arguement. Are you saying that drafting a WR at #3 wasnt a good idea? or that drafting a wr at all wasnt a good idea?

Denny thought the BPA at #3 was Fitz. period. He doesnt go for 'Need' so we all kinda knew he was gonna take Fitz there. I did not like taking a WR at #3 myself, but I understand why he did it and to me if your gonna take a WR there then Fizt was the bpa

 

[Russ Smith]

Green already stated that in an interview on Sporting News Radio. 1. Fitz, 2. Sean Taylor, 3. Kellen Winslow

BTW I like the Fitz - Keyshawn comparison. I think that's the realistic picture of what we can expect in the future from Fitz. But I don't see that that as something negative. Keyshawn is ont of the best receivers when it comes to route running, hands, jumping and blocking, but he lacks deep speed. Only problem with Keyshawn is the size of his mouth. Ignore that and focus purely on his production on the field. Who does he remind you of? (Hint: Best WR ever playing his last year in the league)

Well he doesn't remind me yet of the Keyshawn of his first 4 years, more the guy the next 4.


I hadn't seen that on who we would have drafted. Taylor I would have been happy with, especially now with Dex out all year.

That does point out again that Green apparently didn't think much of Roy Williams who so far has been the best offensive player of this draft.

 

[pete]

What do you do when you have the best rookie receiver in the NFL?
You draft another one and pay him 10 times more. Makes no sense at all.

At least Boldin can break plays. Fitzgerald is toast as soon as he gets it.

What do you do when you have the #3 overall pick in the draft? You take the best player available. Fitzgerald was considered by many to be one of the top 3 players available in the draft.

One, or even two, really good WRs will not suffuce for this offense. Denny did the right thing.

 

[SECTION 11]

See now your changing the arguement. Are you saying that drafting a WR at #3 wasnt a good idea? or that drafting a wr at all wasnt a good idea?

I say both. I wouldn't have taken one on the first day, and there's no way in hell I would have taken one at #3.

Forced to take a receiver, I would have prefered somebody that fit our need at the time, which was speed.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

That's half my argument. The other half is Quan and an inexperienced quarterback.

You don't force your young QB to make plays if you don't have to. We put ourselves in the situation we're in right now on offense.
You want to take heat of McCown, take double teams off of Boldin? Then draft a running back. Preferably one that picks up 6 yards on first down.

Ok so your arguement is not with Fitz but with drafting a WR at all then? I understand that! and I agree. I didnt initially like a WR at #3 at all. But at #3 BPA to me was Fitz and best wr in the draft-to me-was/is Fitz. I think over the long haul that will be proven but right now everyone is jumping on the Roy Williams band wagon-fine.

The arguements against taking a WR there I understand, against that wr being Fitz I dont.

 

[Pariah]

The arguements against taking a WR there I understand, against that wr being Fitz I dont.

The biggest argument for not taking fitz at number three but still taking a WR is named Roy Williams, and that arguement had and still has a lot of merit.

That said, we should have taken Ben Roethlisberger (hey, if Sec11 can pimp Jackson at this stage in the game, I want to get my shots in too!)

 

[pete]

I say both. I wouldn't have taken one on the first day, and there's no way in hell I would have taken one at #3.

Forced to take a receiver, I would have prefered somebody that fit our need at the time, which was speed.

Now that there is a good point. A speedy WR would have been a better fit for this offense. But Green took Fitzgerald because he thought he was a RARE talent. A Moss like player. My point is that it is going to take a few seasons, maybe longer, to see whether he is that kind of player. Not a few games!

 

[Russ Smith]

Roy Williams with Boldin and Poole would have been perfect, Poole and Boldin as good third down choices with Williams kicking your butt deep.

It was perfect and we could have also traded down to get more value.

This Fitz thing is starting to really aggravate me more every day just because we signed the kid to a ridiculous contract and he has no touchdowns just like Josh.

I don't think we could have gone down far and gotten Roy. Jax at 9 wanted Fitz per Green and Graves, they got stuck with Reggie Williams who's worse than Fitz so far on a WR starved team.

Detroit took him 7th, Mariucci said they had him rated #1 on their board at WR and they were between him and Taylor. On Sunday the announcers said that a LOT of NFL teams had Roy ahead of Fitz after all the personal workouts, not most, not all but us, but a lot.

So the odds were against us moving down and getting Roy, Jax was too late, Giants took Rivers at 4 for the deal, Washington took Taylor, I don't see them moving up to 3 to take Sean. 6 was Cleveland and WInslow but they swapped places with Detroit, who wouldn't have done that if they werent' sure they were going to get Roy Williams.

If we wanted a WR it should have come down to Fitz or Roy at 3, I don't think moving down was a viable option to get either guy.

 

[SECTION 11]

We could have traded down (potentially, I know it takes two to trade) and gotten Steven Jackson and Lee Evans.
Evans is a speed guy, can stretch the field. Almost 26 yards per catch. He's only got three, but you get the point. THAT's the kind of receiver we should have drafted, if in fact we had to have one.

 

[Russ Smith]

His 13 grabs are more than any other receiver on the team. Kind of reminds you of Anquan's stats from last year.

Fitz's style of play doesn't bother me as this is the same style that allowed him to grab a TD pass in all those consecutive games as a college player. Green drafted this kid because he scores. If he was playing in an offense that had a better O line and more experienced QB, his stats would most likely be better. Probably as good, if not better, than Roy Williams.

you do realize Roy is on a Pace to tie Moss' alltime NFL record for TD's by a rookie WR? To say if Fitz were in a better offense he'd have better numbers than Roy is a quantum leap.

I don't think for a second Roy will wind up with 17-18 TD catches, the NFL will adjust, but your statement was just a bit too far fetched to go unchallenged.

Did you hear what TO said about Roy? Said that the Philly DB's were telling him during the game "it's like trying to tackle you in practice." That's how impressed they were.

 

[Russ Smith]

See now your changing the arguement. Are you saying that drafting a WR at #3 wasnt a good idea? or that drafting a wr at all wasnt a good idea?

Denny thought the BPA at #3 was Fitz. period. He doesnt go for 'Need' so we all kinda knew he was gonna take Fitz there. I did not like taking a WR at #3 myself, but I understand why he did it and to me if your gonna take a WR there then Fizt was the bpa

Simple question, if Roy Williams dad were a good friend of Green and Roy was the former Viking Ball boy, and Fitz was just some record breaking WR from Pitt with no history with Green, would he still have been the BPA on our board?

My answer is no.

 

[kerouac9]

Now that there is a good point. A speedy WR would have been a better fit for this offense. But Green took Fitzgerald because he thought he was a RARE talent. A Moss like player. My point is that it is going to take a few seasons, maybe longer, to see whether he is that kind of player. Not a few games!

First, Fitz compares very little to Randy Moss. Very little. The player who did compare to Randy Moss? Roy Williams.

Also, it didn't take Randy Moss "a few seasons" to develop. It's not taking Roy Williams "a few seasons, maybe longer" to develop. It happened with them immediately. If Fitz is this far behind now, will he ever catch up to capitalize on those "rare" skills (all of which, IMO, can be taught)?

 

[CaptTurbo]

Sorry 11, no 1st round RB's too much money too low of a life expectancy.

 

[Russ Smith]

Now that there is a good point. A speedy WR would have been a better fit for this offense. But Green took Fitzgerald because he thought he was a RARE talent. A Moss like player. My point is that it is going to take a few seasons, maybe longer, to see whether he is that kind of player. Not a few games!

Because Moss only set an alltime NFL record for TD catches by a rookie?

After 3 games, all not starts, Moss had 15 catches for 221 yards and 3 TD's, including 2 in his debut game. in his 5th game he caught 5 balls for 190 yards and 2 TD's. ANd it took NFL teams about 2 games to realize no nickel CB in the NFL was going to cover Moss, so the argument that Fitz is seeing #1 CB's and Moss #3's doesn't hold up.

Moss ran a sub 4.3 40, Fitz had to go to speed camp to get to 4.46 on a fast track that put Shawnte Spencer into the 2nd round too. Guess what the biggest complaint on him is now with the 49ers, not as fast as they thought he would be so when he makes a mistake, his recovery speed is not good enough.

The thing is this stuff is not new, this was argued to death months ago, Wally got reamed for it, so did S11 and others. I posted direct quotes from people pointing out that the reason Pittsburgh used their practice field, and not their game field for the pro day workouts is it's a faster surface.

if Green really thought Fitz was moss like, he messed up. He's going to be good but he'll never be faster than any other player on the field like Moss almost always is.

 

[Pariah]

Sorry 11, no 1st round RB's too much money too low of a life expectancy.

You'd better get your arguements for not taking a RBs in the first round ready, because I think there's a better than 50/50 chance that we take one next year.

 

[CaptTurbo]

You'd better get your arguements for not taking a RBs in the first round ready, because I think there's a better than 50/50 chance that we take one next year.

Thats ok I embarressed all the Thomas Jones fans when he was drafted. Ill do it again if I must.....

 

[kerouac9]

if Green really thought Fitz was moss like, he messed up. He's going to be good but he'll never be faster than any other player on the field like Moss almost always is.

Many, many, many people were saying this at the time. I know that I was saying how Pitt was running on a fast track.

Where's MaoTosiFanClub to mention that Fitz doesn't compare to Moss, he compares to Cris Carter, to make the Fitz apologists feel better? What round was Carter drafted in, again?