Steve Nash trade thread

[Cheesebeef]

The Suns would need a SG and PF that are borderline allstars to get back into the playoff picture if you ask me. They don't even have assets to acquire abover average players at the positions unless they take on massive salary and players another team wants to dump.

I don't think Coro's argument are all that logical. I know for a fact that many fans do not want to see another season like this and would be more interested in a rebuilding team even if they don't win many games.

I also don't see the whole respect Nash thing. Did New York keep Ewing? Did Houston keep Olajuwon?

I am also not sure how the lockout is an argument to keep Nash? A lockout would mean a shorter NBA season, it is better to lose a short season than a full season while tanking. A lockout means Nash gets older without giving the team a return on the court.

gotta agree with all of this.

 

[slinslin]

Since San Antonio is like Sarvers poster child for anything maybe we should hope that the Spurs blow it up so the Suns come to their senses.

 

[AfroSuns]

I don't think Coro's argument are all that logical. I know for a fact that many fans do not want to see another season like this and would be more interested in a rebuilding team even if they don't win many games.

You know for a fact?? How many is many?
I can tell you majority wants Nash back.
I am of the camp that you just don't deal him solely because we want to change systems. If they can get good pieces, then by all means, send him off.
Nash's declining performance as the season goes on is due to lack of good backup pg and a scorer Suns can depend on. If Nash time can be managed, he is still an elite pg.

 

[slinslin]

You just have to look at the Suns communities on the internet to see that the team lost a lot of appeal over the last 3-4 years.

4-5 years ago this board had long game threads every game, game chats etc. Nowadays the average game thread is lucky to reach 3 pages. And when I look at the other sites phxsuns.net etc they are not nearly as active as either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nash's declining performance as the season goes on is due to lack of good backup pg and a scorer Suns can depend on. If Nash time can be managed, he is still an elite pg.

so that explains this season... what about last season when Nash's performance declined when he had a good backup scorer and one of the best scorers in the league to depend on with Amare?

 

[Cheesebeef]

You just have to look at the Suns communities on the internet to see that the team lost a lot of appeal over the last 3-4 years.

using the internet die hard fans as a barometer of general fandom at large doesn't hold much weight. we're the people who live, breathe and eat everything Orange. the overwhelming majority of people in that city probably would be pissed if we traded Nash because the average fan is pretty clueless.

hell, even on this board, you have a ton of people who don't want to let Nash go at this point.

 

[AfroSuns]

You just have to look at the Suns communities on the internet to see that the team lost a lot of appeal over the last 3-4 years.

4-5 years ago this board had long game threads every game, game chats etc. Nowadays the average game thread is lucky to reach 3 pages. And when I look at the other sites phxsuns.net etc they are not nearly as active as either.

You are right that we all want a change, all geared towards the same thing; Winning!!
Are Suns fans going to be as patient as Clippers, Wolves fans? i know am not. those teams have been doing it for years and where are they now? As has been previously mentioned, there are other methods than complete rebuild.
If anything, the reasons you mentioned shows how much the Suns cant afford to rebuild, one season away from reaching the WCF and no one wants to start a game thread. I can only imagine who would want to go pay to watch an unexciting losing team without a single championship banner.

so that explains this season... what about last season when Nash's performance declined when he had a good backup scorer and one of the best scorers in the league to depend on with Amare?

Are you saying last season was a failure?!? Suns were like one play away from reaching the finals. He may have tired out but it was nothing close to this season, heck the dude came back after a gash to his head against the Sours. We did not lose to lakers because Nash was spent, we lost because they were a better/bigger team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Are you saying last season was a failure?!?

HOLY CRAP. are you serious? talk about putting words into someone's mouth to completely spin the conversation away from the topic at hand which was: NASH BREAKS DOWN IN THE SECOND HALF OF SEASONS.

Suns were like one play away from reaching the finals. He may have tired out but it was nothing close to this season, heck the dude came back after a gash to his head against the Sours.

a) he tired out last season b) he tires out even worse this season... that what happens to guys who are 37 YEARS OLD.

you just can't deny the fact that he wore down with great talent around him and then wore out even worse this season. that's a pattern and one that usually happens to players in their late 30's.

 

[desertdawg]

We did not lose to lakers because Nash was spent, we lost because they were a better/bigger team.

I'm freakin out man...Cheese is agreeing with slin and I'm agreeing with Afro...WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY!?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm freakin out man...Cheese is agreeing with slin and I'm agreeing with Afro...WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY!?

problem is... no one's disagreeing with Afro on why we lost to the Lakers... we weren't as good. doesn't mean that Nash didn't break down last season just the same as he did this season.

 

[desertdawg]

problem is... no one's disagreeing with Afro on why we lost to the Lakers... we weren't as good. doesn't mean that Nash didn't break down last season just the same as he did this season.

Well help me out with my average clueless ass, what do you plan on getting for Nash? Do you want him to be traded just so we can begin the rebuild or do you see us getting any real value for him?

As far as him breaking down, Gentry is a moron when it comes to managing minutes. Nash is still one of the best PGs in the league at running an offense, but he won't fetch a good price because of his age. We can make a decent run next year with Nash on the team, Hill too. Spurs are toast, Lakers will be Phil-less, if we get the right couple guys (they don't have to be allstars but one of those would be nice) we can go into the playoffs with a chance.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well help me out with my average clueless ass,

I knew someone here was going to take that wrong. the people HERE aren't the average clueless people who don't really pay attention to the team more than just watching them on TV.

what do you plan on getting for Nash? Do you want him to be traded just so we can begin the rebuild or do you see us getting any real value for him?

both. you get draft picks and you're smart about it. you don't ask for draft picks THIS year. you look down the road at what team's window's closing (the Magic) and get future picks for Nash so that when they crash, we're there for the reward... or you look at a team like the Clippers who have a ton of young talent and multiple first rounders.

As far as him breaking down, Gentry is a moron when it comes to managing minutes. Nash is still one of the best PGs in the league at running an offense, but he won't fetch a good price because of his age. We can make a decent run next year with Nash on the team, Hill too.

how in the heck do you figure this? we have no assets to make ourselves better (if you think we're going to do anything with Carter's contract except buy it out you haven't been attention to how this team operates for the last six years). Also, we're capped out... we're going to be a year older and here's the thing... we didn't just have a year where we got our asses kicked in the first round as a 4 seed... we didn't even get bounced as an 8 seed... we finished the year SEVEN GAMES OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS.

Spurs are toast,

and yet are still better than us.

Lakers will be Phil-less,

and that means... what? that they'll somehow fall out of the playoffs? because teams falling apart in front of us is the only way we get back in the playoffs.

if we get the right couple guys (they don't have to be allstars but one of those would be nice) we can go into the playoffs with a chance.

how are we going to pick up the right couple of guys?

 

[desertdawg]

I knew someone here was going to take that wrong. the people HERE aren't the average clueless people who don't really pay attention to the team more than just watching them on TV.



both. you get draft picks and you're smart about it. you don't ask for draft picks THIS year. you look down the road at what team's window's closing (the Magic) and get future picks for Nash so that when they crash, we're there for the reward... or you look at a team like the Clippers who have a ton of young talent and multiple first rounders.



how in the heck do you figure this? we have no assets to make ourselves better (if you think we're going to do anything with Carter's contract except buy it out you haven't been attention to how this team operates for the last six years). Also, we're capped out... we're going to be a year older and here's the thing... we didn't just have a year where we got our asses kicked in the first round as a 4 seed... we didn't even get bounced as an 8 seed... we finished the year SEVEN GAMES OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS.



and yet are still better than us.



and that means... what? that they'll somehow fall out of the playoffs? because teams falling apart in front of us is the only way we get back in the playoffs.



how are we going to pick up the right couple of guys?

Nobodies gonna give up their future (in the draft or from their roster) players for one Steve Nash.

Gentry sucks, his decisions baffle me, I've never seen a worse coach in Phx in all my 36 years. We actually have a center, a Nash, a Frye, we gotta Dudley, some cats that can play defense, (even though Gentry doesn't coach defense in his 15 minute practices) and I still think the midget is going to be pretty quick next year.

The part where you do have me is how are we going to get the necessary pieces to make a real run? I don't know, but I am still under the impression we are far better off with Nash than without him.

We do have a lot of youth on the squad, and it's pretty nice to have a vets like Nash and Hill for the right now. I just don't see us getting anything valuable in return for Nash, we would be losing a whole lot if we lost him.
Give me a realistic trade scenario, because I cant go with teams giving up their awesome goodies to land a 40 year old white guy who needs a backeeotomy. (and we will crush the Spurs next year)

 

[AfroSuns]

HOLY CRAP. are you serious? talk about putting words into someone's mouth to completely spin the conversation away from the topic at hand which was: NASH BREAKS DOWN IN THE SECOND HALF OF SEASONS.



a) he tired out last season b) he tires out even worse this season... that what happens to guys who are 37 YEARS OLD.

you just can't deny the fact that he wore down with great talent around him and then wore out even worse this season. that's a pattern and one that usually happens to players in their late 30's.

LOL, i am not trying to put words in your mouth or sway the argument by changing topics. I just believe they go hand in hand. If Nash ran outta gas the way you are making it out to be, there is no way Amare takes us to the WCF by himself, although he was a big factor.
This is not the first time we have all been harping on getting a good backup for Nash. There has never been one, last season is probably the first time the Suns were close but the second unit didn't start to play well until after ASB.

As far as trading Nash topic goes. i am all for trading him for decent pieces but you are not going to trade a top 5 PG for craps and it is classless to trade him to an owner like Sterling after what he has done for this franchise.
In the absence of a good deal; I am all for the Suns holding on to Nash and see how they can improve the pieces around him.

I'm freakin out man...Cheese is agreeing with slin and I'm agreeing with Afro...WHAT'S GOING ON TODAY!?

Yeah, peering outside my office window and waiting for a snow storm in the middle of April in Phoenix.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Nobodies gonna give up their future (in the draft or from their roster) players for one Steve Nash.

teams that are desperate (read ORLANDO) will. and the bottom line is, you don't know if you don't try.

Gentry sucks, his decisions baffle me, I've never seen a worse coach in Phx in all my 36 years. We actually have a center, a Nash, a Frye, we gotta Dudley, some cats that can play defense, (even though Gentry doesn't coach defense in his 15 minute practices) and I still think the midget is going to be pretty quick next year.

The part where you do have me is how are we going to get the necessary pieces to make a real run? I don't know, but I am still under the impression we are far better off with Nash than without him.

I just don't see us getting anything valuable in return for Nash, we would be losing a whole lot if we lost him.
Give me a realistic trade scenario, because I cant go with teams giving up their awesome goodies to land a 40 year old white guy who needs a backeeotomy. (and we will crush the Spurs next year)[/QUOTE]

how are we better off? We're an aging non-playoff team with a late lotto pick. Without him, we're a non-playoff team with a high lotto pick. Who's in better position to get better there desert?

I just don't see what this team would be losing without him. Meaningless wins that accomplish nothing but keep us from getting better draft picks? Yay.

 

[Gaddabout]

1) Nash has zero trade value. No one's going to give up a first-round pick for him. Not even a sketchy late first-round pick. He only has value to teams that like to run, and those teams, outside of the Knicks, aren't good teams. On a normal team that runs a typical offense, he's a 12/7 guy who can't play defense. And a very old one at that. His biggest value to a contender would be as a sixth-man offensive spark plug off the bench, and it's not a role he wants to play. Which is why he has rationalized staying in Phoenix.

2) The Suns aren't going to get better anytime soon no matter what Nash does. The only benefit to Nash leaving is the Suns will be SO BAD they'll be high up in the lottery. Maybe that's what people are thinking. But the Suns need several really good pieces to put things back together. Hill maybe has one more year. All the centers on this roster are backups on good teams. Dudley is a good energy guy but the Suns are relying on him being an every-game scorer, which is a sign how bad they are. They really have no legitimate starting power forward or two-guard. This is a long-term rebuilding project, and there isn't a Cotton Fitzsimmons around here to make crazy trades to get things turned around quickly.

3) Nash wants to stay here, and management isn't going to move him without his blessing. Period.

 

[Cheesebeef]

2) The Suns aren't going to get better anytime soon no matter what Nash does. The only benefit to Nash leaving is the Suns will be SO BAD they'll be high up in the lottery. Maybe that's what people are thinking. But the Suns need several really good pieces to put things back together. Hill maybe has one more year. All the centers on this roster are backups on good teams. Dudley is a good energy guy but the Suns are relying on him being an every-game scorer, which is a sign how bad they are. They really have no legitimate starting power forward or two-guard. This is a long-term rebuilding project, and there isn't a Cotton Fitzsimmons around here to make crazy trades to get things turned around quickly.

this is my line of thinking... although I disagree with one thing. Gortat is a solid starting C in this league. everything else is spot on with my way of thinking. the sooner we burn down the forest, the sooner we can start making it grow again.

3) Nash wants to stay here, and management isn't going to move him without his blessing. Period.

unfortunately, this is probably true as well.

 

[Mainstreet]

1) Nash has zero trade value. No one's going to give up a first-round pick for him. Not even a sketchy late first-round pick. He only has value to teams that like to run, and those teams, outside of the Knicks, aren't good teams. On a normal team that runs a typical offense, he's a 12/7 guy who can't play defense. And a very old one at that. His biggest value to a contender would be as a sixth-man offensive spark plug off the bench, and it's not a role he wants to play. Which is why he has rationalized staying in Phoenix.

2) The Suns aren't going to get better anytime soon no matter what Nash does. The only benefit to Nash leaving is the Suns will be SO BAD they'll be high up in the lottery. Maybe that's what people are thinking. But the Suns need several really good pieces to put things back together. Hill maybe has one more year. All the centers on this roster are backups on good teams. Dudley is a good energy guy but the Suns are relying on him being an every-game scorer, which is a sign how bad they are. They really have no legitimate starting power forward or two-guard. This is a long-term rebuilding project, and there isn't a Cotton Fitzsimmons around here to make crazy trades to get things turned around quickly.

3) Nash wants to stay here, and management isn't going to move him without his blessing. Period.

I agree along the lines you are thinking. If the Suns can get a good trade for Nash then trade him. If not, the Suns need to to concentrate on getting a SG and a PF to supplement him. The Suns do not need another hole to fill. The Suns need to use the 13th pick plus perhaps Lopez and FA to fill these holes. The Suns are not going to rebuild into a contender overnight. It will likely take years and Nash will already be gone making the arguments about trading Nash moot.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree along the lines you are thinking. If the Suns can get a good trade for Nash then trade him. If not, the Suns need to to concentrate on getting a SG and a PF to supplement him. The Suns do not need another hole to fill. The Suns need to use the 13th pick...

jesus christ... this is EXACTLY what i fear is going to happen. we're going to fool ourselves that our below .500 aging team can make one last run and cut off the nose WHILE spiting our face.

seriously, if the team trades away the future to try and prolong the pathetic present that we're in, it's the height of stupidity... or in other words... par for the course.

 

[Mainstreet]

jesus christ... this is EXACTLY what i fear is going to happen. we're going to fool ourselves that our below .500 aging team can make one last run and cut off the nose WHILE spiting our face.

seriously, if the team trades away the future to try and prolong the pathetic present that we're in, it's the height of stupidity... or in other words... par for the course.

I'm not saying this. IMO, the Suns window has closed. However, giving Nash away does not do anything. The Suns need to think youth in all the moves they make.

 

[Folster]

this is my line of thinking... although I disagree with one thing. Gortat is a solid starting C in this league.

I agree that he is a solid starting center; however, he needs to be paired with a more dynamic power forward for the team to be a playoff contender. Gortat can't be our best player in the frontcourt.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree that he is a solid starting center; however, he needs to be paired with a more dynamic power forward for the team to be a playoff contender. Gortat can't be our best player in the frontcourt.

No doubt. You know who he'd be perfect next to? That Amare Stoudemire guy!

 

[devilalum]

It doesn't matter what the Suns do they're going to be awful for at least
the next 6 years regardless.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree that he is a solid starting center; however, he needs to be paired with a more dynamic power forward for the team to be a playoff contender. Gortat can't be our best player in the frontcourt.

agree with this as well.

 

[Folster]

No doubt. You know who he'd be perfect next to? That Amare Stoudemire guy!

He'll do, but I was think more along the lines of Sean Marks or Dan Langhi.