Steve Nash trade thread

[ASUCHRIS]

He'll do, but I was think more along the lines of Sean Marks or Dan Langhi.

I hear the Magic Lamp and Horatio Llamas are available...

 

[JCSunsfan]

I hear the Magic Lamp and Horatio Llamas are available...

So are Big Jake and Little Jake

 

[JCSunsfan]

I agree along the lines you are thinking. If the Suns can get a good trade for Nash then trade him. If not, the Suns need to to concentrate on getting a SG and a PF to supplement him. The Suns do not need another hole to fill. The Suns need to use the 13th pick plus perhaps Lopez and FA to fill these holes. The Suns are not going to rebuild into a contender overnight. It will likely take years and Nash will already be gone making the arguments about trading Nash moot.

Nash MUST be traded. We have to move on and we HAVE to get some value for him. If this means moving Lopez along with him, fine. In order to do this, Nash must be willing to play a few more years (check) and not be demanding a trade, thus reducing his value (check). Even if he was trade for just the cap space, we would have to do it, but I think we can do somewhat better than that.

We will see in the next two months. I predict that he will be traded before the draft and we will get a first round pick (mid, not lottery) for him. We might also pick up a young, promising but redundant player (Kaman type), but will also probably have to take back dead weight salary along with it.

 

[Gaddabout]

We will see in the next two months. I predict that he will be traded before the draft and we will get a first round pick (mid, not lottery) for him. We might also pick up a young, promising but redundant player (Kaman type), but will also probably have to take back dead weight salary along with it.

I predict you will be very disappointed in two months.

 

[Superbone]

Nash MUST be traded. We have to move on and we HAVE to get some value for him.

That is NOT what the FRONT OFFICE is thinking.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I predict you will be very disappointed in two months.

No. Its possible it might not happen, but either way, I won't be disappointed. I do not have that much emotion invested in it. Its just my prediction.

 

[Griffin]

Even if he was trade for just the cap space, we would have to do it

Why would the Suns trade Nash just for cap space? He has an expiring contract next summer, so the cap space will be there in 2012 if the Suns choose not to re-sign him. To create cap space this summer, the Suns would have to trade him for players they can buy out immediately (this would look really bad, btw, worse than the Shaq trade). But they wouldn't sign any FA's this summer with that cap space (there aren't any good ones anyway) so that move would only result in money savings and nothing more.

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree that he is a solid starting center; however, he needs to be paired with a more dynamic power forward for the team to be a playoff contender. Gortat can't be our best player in the frontcourt.

Depending on what system the Suns run, you could either get away with a PF who can score or a PF who is a shut down defender. I don't think the PF actually has to be the better all around player. In our current system Amare would be a good fit.......go figure.

 

[slinslin]

We could just as well look for a better center because Channing Frye is not a worse player than Gortat.

Frye+star center is at least as good as Gortat+start forward.

 

[slinslin]

All the centers on this roster are backups on good teams.

Gortat is a solid starting C in this league.

Uh oh, a week ago or so I got blasted for saying that realistically Gortat at best is a top 15-21 center in the league.

Basically he has no moves offensively that he can create on his own, gets spoon fed by Nash so his scoring and efficiency is infalted, he is 27 not very young, his total stats are not very meaningful because the Suns have been bottom feeders throughout since the trade, he came to the worst rebounding team in the league so naturally the rebounding numbers for an above average rebounder would go up unlike when you play with Dwight Howard or other great rebounders.

On a good team he is a backup I agree. On a bad team he is a starter. Top 15-21 is about right.

To think that some people here think we shouldn't trade him for a top 5 pick or better yet Derrick Williams is just insane.

 

[Cheesewater]

Uh oh, a week ago or so I got blasted for saying that realistically Gortat at best is a top 15-21 center in the league.

Basically he has no moves offensively that he can create on his own, gets spoon fed by Nash so his scoring and efficiency is infalted, he is 27 not very young, his total stats are not very meaningful because the Suns have been bottom feeders throughout since the trade, he came to the worst rebounding team in the league so naturally the rebounding numbers for an above average rebounder would go up unlike when you play with Dwight Howard or other great rebounders.

On a good team he is a backup I agree. On a bad team he is a starter. Top 15-21 is about right.

To think that some people here think we shouldn't trade him for a top 5 pick or better yet Derrick Williams is just insane.

Wait. According to you there are 14 to 20 better centers in the league but you expect a top 5 draft pick in trade?

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We could just as well look for a better center because Channing Frye is not a worse player than Gortat.

Frye+star center is at least as good as Gortat+start forward.

While I like Channing, there isn't a GM in the league that would prefer him to Gortat.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wait. According to you there are 14 to 20 better centers in the league but you expect a top 5 draft pick in trade?

I can't wait to see how slin answers this question.

 

[Folster]

The only teams that I could legitimately see having interest in Nash this offseason are: Atlanta, Orlando, New York, Miami, Toronto, Dallas, and Portland. I don't by that Minnesota has genuine interest in Nash as was reported during the deadline or that he would even want to play there.

Atlanta certainly has the most to offer in a package. Hinrich, Crawford, Smith, Williams, Teague, and a future first rounder could be possible pieces in a deal.
Orlando could be desperate enough, but we already raided their cupboards this past season. Their only players I'd have interest in are Reddick, Bass, and Nelson as a stop-gap.
A trade with New York would only be possible as a token thank-you to Nash. They are devoid of talent. We could expect back their 17th pick this year, maybe Fields, and Billups for salary purposes. This deal would have to come after the draft because NY can't trade their pick this year.
Miami has nothing to offer.
Toronto would just be a fairwell tour for Nash. They likely wouldn't give up much.
Dallas would afford him one last ride with Dirk and Co. The best we could get in return is maybe Roddy and a late pick.
Portland has some young talent. Fernandez, A Johnson, and Mills, would be possibilities. Oden would be the most intriguing while Batum would be improbable. Miller would likely come in return for salary purposes. They have the 19th pick in the draft this year.

 

[Gwindor]

Basically he has no moves offensively that he can create on his own, gets spoon fed by Nash so his scoring and efficiency is infalted, he is 27 not very young,

About no off moves we can talk in next season. He can't focus on that during practices in Orlando coz they seen him only as D player.
And talking about Gortat that he is not young player always makes me smile, especially when i read that Suns should not give up on Lopez, becouse bigs develop late. Personally i think that Gortat will play about twice as many minutes in his career as Lopez ( considering Lopez staying in NBA on whole career) becouse Gortat is not injury prone.
Also without Nash his productivity was decent. At least decent IMHO.

his total stats are not very meaningful because the Suns have been bottom feeders throughout since the trade, he came to the worst rebounding team in the league so naturally the rebounding numbers for an above average rebounder would go up unlike when you play with Dwight Howard or other great rebounders.

Frye become also good rebounder alongside Gortat. Suns were crappy rebounders coz there was only one decent rebounder in the game earlier (Frye) and he wasn't able to deal with other team rebounders alone. Frye averages decent reb #'s in last few games

On a good team he is a backup I agree. On a bad team he is a starter. Top 15-21 is about right.

I think you are wrong, and IMO next season will show you how much wrong you are. But this is your opinion and I respect it.

To think that some people here think we shouldn't trade him for a top 5 pick or better yet Derrick Williams is just insane.

Your one statement contradicts another.

 

[slinslin]

I can't wait to see how slin answers this question.

Huh? I said that if you could get a top 5 pick for Gortat you would do definitely do it. I didn't say that Gortat is worth that pick.

PS: It is the nature of trades that one of the teams gets less than what they give up with rare exceptions.

 

[slinslin]

While I like Channing, there isn't a GM in the league that would prefer him to Gortat.

I would say it entirely depends on the team.

It's also not my argument. I just said Frye is as good a player as Gortat and that it doesn't matter if the Suns add an allstar PF with Gortat or an allstar center to Frye.

 

[Covert Rain]

I just said Frye is as good a player as Gortat and that it doesn't matter if the Suns add an allstar PF with Gortat or an allstar center to Frye.

Ridiculous. No he is not. Ask any team who would they rather have, a top 10 center or Frye??? Centers are much harder to find then a PF like Frye. Frye doesn't rank has high among his PF peers as Gortat does at center among his peers. Frye's best attribute is scoring and he was #21 in the league among PF's. His rebounding? #25. That doesn't compare.

Adding a better PF would matter because right now the team doesn't have a true post up guy right now. Getting a PF who can legitimately post up and give you more high percentage shots allows your center to concentrate on defense and rebounding on both ends.

Having a shutdown PF at that position would give you a very imposing front court that keeps guys out of the paint. You would have to rely on scoring more from your other positions but that is OK.

 

[slinslin]

Ridiculous. No he is not. Ask any team who would they rather have, a top 10 center or Frye??? Centers are much harder to find then a PF like Frye.

And a team that has a center would much rather have Frye. Your point?

Frye is a better player that is the bottom line, we never talked about who is more VALUEABLE but Frye is better than Gortat regardless of the position.

I would rather have Dwight Howard and Channing Frye than Marcin Gortat and Blake Griffin. Get it?

Also sure I would rather have a top 10 center than Frye. But Gortat is no top 10 center.

 

[Covert Rain]

And a team that has a center would much rather have Frye. Your point?

My point is your comment was about Frye being just as good as a player. Clearly he is not. Frye doesn't stack up statistically against his peers at his position like Gortat does at center.

You have no basis for your comment.

Frye is a better player that is the bottom line, we never talked about who is more VALUEABLE but Frye is better than Gortat regardless of the position.

Now Frye is better?? Make up your mind. What is your basis? Statistically Gortat ranks among the best centers. Frye does not. Again, what is the basis for this? There is nothing that backs Frye is better than Gortat regardless of position.

Oh wait....I forgot...Gortat sucks so everybody is better.

I would rather have Dwight Howard and Channing Frye than Marcin Gortat and Blake Griffin. Get it?

No I don't. Because this wasn't about arbitrarily matching players. Ofcouse I would rather have Howard over Gortat but that is no reflection whatsoever on Fry's ability. Frye is average at best and Gortat is not. If I could just pick and choose my PF I could probably name 15 other PF's in this league I would take over Frye.

If what you stated was my only choices (I have no clue why), I would rather have Howard and Griffin. Frye settles too much for jumpers and Griffin gets to the line which is what the Suns are sorely missing on this team. Frye doesn't offer much in the way of defense or rebounding.

Also sure I would rather have a top 10 center than Frye. But Gortat is no top 10 center.

Again, just because you say so doesn't make it so. His #'s as a starter say otherwise.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Frye is a better player that is the bottom line, we never talked about who is more VALUEABLE but Frye is better than Gortat regardless of the position.

this is really ridiculous.

 

[slinslin]

No I don't. Because this wasn't about arbitrarily matching players. Ofcouse I would rather have Howard over Gortat but that is no reflection whatsoever on Fry's ability. Frye is average at best and Gortat is not. If I could just pick and choose my PF I could probably name 15 other PF's in this league I would take over Frye.

If what you stated was my only choices (I have no clue why), I would rather have Howard and Griffin. Frye settles too much for jumpers and Griffin gets to the line which is what the Suns are sorely missing on this team. Frye doesn't offer much in the way of defense or rebounding.

You don't want to understand it huh?

Howard AND Frye or Gortat AND Griffin.

We don't have to get a stud PF to pair with Gortat. If we can get one we can just as well get a stud center and pair him with Frye. There is no clear cut better scenario because just like you can name 15 PFs better than Frye I can name 15 centers better than Gortat.

 

[Covert Rain]

this is really ridiculous.

It's just slinslins new way of saying Gortat sucks. First it was Lopez was better. Now he can't hang his hat on that. Now Frye is better (even though they don't play the same position).

Exact same argument against Gortat but this is his new "straw" to grasp at. Sort of like the two uncorrelated stats he could come up with compared to all the rest that didn't support his argument about Gortat.

Howard AND Frye or Gortat AND Griffin.

We don't have to get a stud PF to pair with Gortat. If we can get one we can just as well get a stud center and pair him with Frye. There is no clear cut better scenario because just like you can name 15 PFs better than Frye I can name 15 centers better than Gortat.

You are all over the place. Howard and Griffin together are still better than Howard and Frye. How does that support your argument that Frye is better than Gortat?

I still don't get you picking and choosing only those 4 players. Your limiting that field only because in some warped way you get to count Howard's talent in factoring how good Frye is. That's stupid.

Let's play your game.

Given the choice between Howard/Griffin or Howard/Frye....I take Howard/Griffin. Given the choice between Gortat/Frye or Gortat/Griffin.....I take Gortat/Griffin for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

We could play this game all day.

Bottom line......show me proof that Frye is better than Gortat.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i'm still waiting to find out the rational for why Frye is a better player than Gortat.

 

[slinslin]

You are all over the place. Howard and Griffin together are still better than Howard and Frye. How does that support your argument that Frye is better than Gortat?

I still don't get you picking and choosing only those 4 players. Your limiting that field only because in some warped way you get to count Howard's talent in factoring how good Frye is. That's stupid.

Let's play your game.

Given the choice between Howard/Griffin or Howard/Frye....I take Howard/Griffin. Given the choice between Gortat/Frye or Gortat/Griffin.....I take Gortat/Griffin for the reasons I outlined in my previous post.

We could play this game all day.

Bottom line......show me proof that Frye is better than Gortat.

Are you playing stupid on purpose?

Howard AND Frye or Gortat AND Griffin.

You have no choice of Howard and Griffin, sigh.