Suns 2010 Preseason Thread

[Errntknght]

Hedo the facilitator is a myth as far as I've seen... maybe he requires someone who facilitates him being a facilitator. Or a system that is finely tuned to his game.

I sure have a hard time envisioning him orchestrating much of the offense with this team. He certainly doesn't fit as the classic triple threat high post player, a la Chris Webber while he could still drive. (True, thats not part of our offense now, but it could easily be fit in, if there was good reason to do so.)

 

[Yuma]

Our defense was actually quite good after the first quarter.

I don't know if it was us or the Mavs playing poor offense, but after two stinker games, it was amazing to see the turn around. I think when we find roles for Josh and Hakeem, we will have stronger defensive efforts. It seems like Hedo, Josh, and Hakeem are not even close to being integrated into the team yet. G. Lawal seemed like he could play some D in summer league, too.

Anyone else notice Earl Clark seemed like he was the invisible man?

 

[Griffin]

Who would have thought that our 51-point loss to the Raptors would not be the widest margin of defeat in this preseason. The Hornets just lost by 54 to the Magic.

 

[Chaplin]

Just saying, but Grant Hill claimed that it took 2 weeks into the regular season before he got comfortable playing with Nash and the Suns' style. No need to write off Hedo just yet, Errnt.

 

[Chaplin]

As expected, we waived Chucky Atkins today.

 

[Folster]

Odds and Ends from the Dallas game

In the first minute of the game Lopez made an impact by altering and blocking two separate shots. He showed further refinement in his offensive game developing a soft touch inside. I think averaging 15/7-16/8 is a realistic expectation for Lopez in the upcoming season. His health will be key to the Suns success as he is the lone defensive presence inside.

I'm not sure what to make of Hedo yet. He seems to stand around a lot with Nash on the floor and his shooting has been abysmal. I'd like to see Gentry experiment with moving him to the second unit. He'd provide support for Dragic and be more active in play-making.

Warrick impressed me with the way he played the passing lanes. I think he'd benefit by playing more with Nash in a Stoudemire type role, another reason why I'm in favor of moving Hedo to the second unit. I would even like to give Frye a look next to Lopez in the starting unit.

Watching Childress reminded me of Marion, and watching Marion made me happy we didn't give him a huge contract. Childress has the handles that Marion never possessed, but unfortunately the same shot that will hold him back. His high school coach really did him a disservice. I see him breaking out this year and becoming a Marion(Suns)/Josh Howard(Mavs) type player for us.

The ten man rotation is clearly set with Nash, Richardson, Hill, Hedo, and Lopez as the first unit and Dragic, Dudley, Childress, Warrick, and Frye as the second unit. Clark, Lawal, and whoever else makes the team will play sparingly unless there are major injuries.

 

[Folster]

As expected, we waived Chucky Atkins today.

That brings the roster down to 16 with Dowdell, Janning, Jones, and Siler on the bubble. Will we carry 14 or 15? I think Dowdell is out for sure although he looked good in the Dallas game, and Kerr had nice things to say about him. It's tough to say who stays out of the big men; Siler is Blanks' guy and Jones was Kerr's guy. It'd be nice to carry 15 and keep both big men in case Lopez goes down.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure what to make of Hedo yet. He seems to stand around a lot with Nash on the floor and his shooting has been abysmal. I'd like to see Gentry experiment with moving him to the second unit. He'd provide support for Dragic and be more active in play-making.

I never like to quote myself but I did not get any response from my earlier post on this thread. See below:

What really struck me about the Mavericks game is the Suns have no PF. I know it's not new but it stuck out like a sore thumb. It seems like the Suns only viable option at PF is Frye although it takes away from his strength, shooting the 3 point shot from the high post center position. Maybe Lawal can help later in the season as well as Warrick. The Suns just have a lot of players that seem redundant.

However, if Hedo would accept playing for the second unit, he could replace Frye at the high post center position position because of his 3 point shooting and play making skills. Dragic could use the help as his play making decisions are not always the best. This is my best guess as where Hedo would fit best and produce.

I think Frye is better equipped to play PF than Turkoglu and Turkoglu might be equally equipped to play the high post center position as Frye. As Turkoglu has excellent play making skills, a 3 point shot, not much hops and appears slower than Frye, why not consider using Turkoglu as center for the second unit. This way Frye can start at PF for the first unit alongside Lopez.

Any thoughts about this idea?

 

[Folster]

I never like to quote myself but I did not get any response from my earlier post on this thread. See below:


I think Frye is better equipped to play PF than Turkoglu and Turkoglu might be equally equipped to play the high post center position as Frye. As Turkoglu has excellent play making skills, a 3 point shot, not much hops and appears slower than Frye, why not consider using Turkoglu as center for the second unit. This way Frye can start at PF for the first unit alongside Lopez.

Any thoughts about this idea?

Sorry. I didn't read your post. I was in upstate NY all weekend for a wedding. I just watched the game this morning. Perhaps I sleepily skimmed your post last night and subconsciously recalled it as I watched the game.
I'd like to see Warrick given an opportunity with the first team before Frye just because his game is most similar to Stoudemire. I was also a little disappointed by Frye chucking three pointers all night. Well, I guess he had 5 boards and a block in under 17 min. I really don't like your idea as using Turk of a center; he'll have enough trouble guarding 4's. Either way, you and I are on the same page about moving Hedo to the second unit.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sorry. I didn't read your post. I was in upstate NY all weekend for a wedding. I just watched the game this morning. Perhaps I sleepily skimmed your post last night and subconsciously recalled it as I watched the game.
I'd like to see Warrick given an opportunity with the first team before Frye just because his game is most similar to Stoudemire. I was also a little disappointed by Frye chucking three pointers all night. Well, I guess he had 5 boards and a block in under 17 min. I really don't like your idea as using Turk of a center; he'll have enough trouble guarding 4's. Either way, you and I are on the same page about moving Hedo to the second unit.

I just keep thinking that Turoglu is better when he has the ball to create. Also Dragic could use his help. Playing Turkoglu as a high post center for the second unit would give him this opportunity. I think Turoglu can better defend a center than a PF not that either is the best option. The Suns need to get Turkoglu the ball where he can be involved.

 

[Bufalay]

No one mentions we are FINALLY off the snide on TNT? Maybe we can pick up some of those TNT wins this season!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtaPP9ILmMM

 

[Chaplin]

Watching Childress reminded me of Marion, and watching Marion made me happy we didn't give him a huge contract. Childress has the handles that Marion never possessed, but unfortunately the same shot that will hold him back. His high school coach really did him a disservice. I see him breaking out this year and becoming a Marion(Suns)/Josh Howard(Mavs) type player for us.

This falacy about Marion's jumpshot is surprisingly still a topic that comes up every so often around the board. Both Marion and LB had really strange shots and their stroke didn't affect their percentages much--it was mostly about being in a funk (especially LB). Childress can shoot it however he likes, as long as he makes it (and there's nothing saying he won't), then there really isn't anything to complain about.

 

[Folster]

This falacy about Marion's jumpshot is surprisingly still a topic that comes up every so often around the board. Both Marion and LB had really strange shots and their stroke didn't affect their percentages much--it was mostly about being in a funk (especially LB). Childress can shoot it however he likes, as long as he makes it (and there's nothing saying he won't), then there really isn't anything to complain about.

His jumpshot form absolutely held him back from being a complete player. His jumpshot and his lack of ballhandling prevented him from creating his own shot. His release point is at his chest making it difficult to elevate over the defender no matter how high he jumps, and he has little to no follow-through making the range of the shot inconsistent apparent in his floater that was usually short. He managed to hit a high percentage because he played around the hoop and out on the break and the jumpshots that he did take were when he was open usually set-up by Nash or another penetrating point guard.

Here's a question: Marion is a career 49% shooter and Kobe is a career 45% shooter. If you switched their jumpshots would Kobe still be as effective?

 

[Chaplin]

His jumpshot form absolutely held him back from being a complete player. His jumpshot and his lack of ballhandling prevented him from creating his own shot. His release point is at his chest making it difficult to elevate over the defender no matter how high he jumps, and he has little to no follow-through making the range of the shot inconsistent apparent in his floater that was usually short. He managed to hit a high percentage because he played around the hoop and out on the break and the jumpshots that he did take were when he was open usually set-up by Nash or another penetrating point guard.

Here's a question: Marion is a career 49% shooter and Kobe is a career 45% shooter. If you switched their jumpshots would Kobe still be as effective?

Marion couldn't create his own shot because he wasn't skilled enough to do so. Creating your own shot has nothing to do with your form. It's more attributed to his inability to handle the ball than his shooting. The thing is, with his speed and lateral movement he could have just made a quick move and freed himself up without having to worry about a defender right in front of him. As it was, he was unable to do that because he simply couldn't control the ball well enough.

You put that Marion is a 49% career shooter. Is it your stipulation that if he had a different form on his shot that percentage would go up? How much? 49% career is pretty damn good.

I liked Marion while he was here, he was my favorite player on the team for a couple years. But his issues really had nothing to do with his shooting form.

 

[elindholm]

Marion couldn't create his own shot because he wasn't skilled enough to do so. Creating your own shot has nothing to do with your form.

That's generally true, but part of Marion's problem was that his shooting mechanic started with the ball very low, around his sternum. That made it more difficult for him to create space. Someone with better technique doesn't need quite as much room to get a good shot off, especially with Marion's quick jumping ability. It would have been quite easy for him to develop a fadeaway, for example, if his technique were more sound. But if you try to imagine Marion shooting a fadeaway with his form, you will laugh.

You put that Marion is a 49% career shooter. Is it your stipulation that if he had a different form on his shot that percentage would go up?

Considering how many of his shots were at the rim, he should have been able to add several points. Stoudemire is over 54% for his career, and over 56% since returning from microfracture.

 

[Folster]

That's generally true, but part of Marion's problem was that his shooting mechanic started with the ball very low, around his sternum. That made it more difficult for him to create space. Someone with better technique doesn't need quite as much room to get a good shot off, especially with Marion's quick jumping ability. It would have been quite easy for him to develop a fadeaway, for example, if his technique were more sound. But if you try to imagine Marion shooting a fadeaway with his form, you will laugh.

Exactly. All you have to do is imagine Kobe Bryant trying to do any one of his offensive moves with Marion's shot and you can see how it hindered Marion's offensive development. Shooting form may not be as critical as throwing form for a QB or a pitcher, but it's still critical. I'm sure a shooter like Eddie Johnson would confirm this. You could probably confirm this by emailing him, but I wouldn't want to waste his time.

 

[Chaplin]

If anybody is interested and didn't know, we are playing the Jazz tonight and the 1st quarter just ended--we have a 31-25 lead and we're shooting very well. Also, we lead the rebounding battle 13-6. Leading scorer is JRich with 8, Warrick with 5 and Hedo, Robin and Grant all have 4 points.

 

[Absolute Zero]

If anybody is interested and didn't know, we are playing the Jazz tonight and the 1st quarter just ended--we have a 31-25 lead and we're shooting very well. Also, we lead the rebounding battle 13-6. Leading scorer is JRich with 8, Warrick with 5 and Hedo, Robin and Grant all have 4 points.

Thanks for the update. Haven't been able to find a stream, but CBSSportsline is posting the scores and it looks like we took a nosedive in the 2Q.

 

[Griffin]

Looks like the Suns are experimenting a bit with playing Clark and Warrick at PF with the starters instead of Turkoglu. Turkoglu played in the first quarter but is out with a back injury.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Turkoglu played in the first quarter but is out with a back injury.

Egads, hope it isn't serious

 

[AfroSuns]

From the Stats, Frye was a black hole.

 

[Folster]

http://www.nba.com/games/20101012/UTAPHX/gameinfo.html?ls=gt2hp0011000048

The Good:
Childress with 11/8rebs (4 off)
Warrick with 11/3rebs (2 off) in 18.5 mins.
Nash with 10 asts
Dragic with 15/4/5asts
Lopez with 11/6/1blk
J Rich with 13/2stls
Clark with 4 blks
Frye with 3 blks
Suns outrebounded the Jazz 46-39

The Bad:
Turkoglu out with a back contusion
Frye went 1-10 (7 attempts were 3's)
Suns shot 58.8% from the FT line
18 turnovers

 

[elindholm]

Just from the box score, it looks like the Suns lost the game from the free-throw line. They shot better, won the rebounding battle, and were close in turnovers. 14 missed free throws add up.

 

[Chaplin]

It's reported that Hedo just has a back bruise--I doubt it's anything serious.

Channing's shooting is a little alarming, but this is only his second game and he obviously has had more than basketball on his mind over the past couple weeks.

Leading in rebounding is the best stat of the night, to go along with Dragic's solid game. And I still think people need to give Warrick some credit. He fits in well with the team. And the starters were apparently pretty solid.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Earl Clark had 4 blocks in 20 minutes last night - that's somewhat encouraging.