Suns @ Bucks 2-26-17

[Mainstreet]

I think they are tanking, but they just look better than other teams that have done similar, like the Sixers. The Suns are playing a good mix of young and not-so young...keeping it competitive and not getting the doors blown off. IMO it's a good way to do it.

The only thing, the way the Suns are playing the veterans, the last two games could have gone either way.

 

[pokerface]

I think they are tanking, but they just look better than other teams that have done similar, like the Sixers. The Suns are playing a good mix of young and not-so young...keeping it competitive and not getting the doors blown off. IMO it's a good way to do it.

I agree. They play so hard its hard rooting against them. I think this might be the last year of a tanked season. Next season we should start seeing the climb out of the bottomless pit we've been in.

 

[Mainstreet]

The way it is currently set up is just fine. The team with the worst record only has a 25% chance at the 1st pick and actually have a combined better chance at getting 3 or 4 than 1 or 2. Especially in drafts where there is essentially only one player worth tanking for it makes it far less likely that the team that simply tanks the best will get the chance at that player.

It still doesn't prevent tanking.

 

[pokerface]

It still doesn't prevent tanking.

No but it takes some of the reward out of it

 

[Mainstreet]

No but it takes some of the reward out of it

So do you want the Suns to lose to get a better lottery pick?

 

[JCSunsfan]

If we had drafted Alan Williams last summer, he would be all the rage right now.

That guy.

He looks unathletic and awkward but just seems to inhale rebounds and score down low and below the rim.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It still doesn't prevent tanking.

It does prevent teams from all out tanking. Sure occasionally a team will go all out (see 76ers the last couple years), but for the most part teams aren't trying to actively tank, but just make small moves here or there in the hopes to lose a few more games. It's only when teams that make it blatantly obvious that it becomes unacceptable. Bottom line is if you all out tank you may still end with the 4th pick and have to deal with possible repercussions from the league and the fans that pay to watch the games.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

So do you want the Suns to lose to get a better lottery pick?

Ill answer that. Yes, we need the 1 or 2 pick to get a difference maker in the draft. No more projects. No more Lens or Benders. We cant wait another three + years to "develop" another top 5 pick project. This season is over for winning. Concentrate on winning next season when it counts.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

So do you want the Suns to lose to get a better lottery pick?

Sure a lot of the hardcore fans want to see us lose for a better spot, but there is a difference between developing your youth and actually tanking.

 

[Mainstreet]

It does prevent teams from all out tanking. Sure occasionally a team will go all out (see 76ers the last couple years), but for the most part teams aren't trying to actively tank, but just make small moves here or there in the hopes to lose a few more games. It's only when teams that make it blatantly obvious that it becomes unacceptable. Bottom line is if you all out tank you may still end with the 4th pick and have to deal with possibly repercussions from the league and the fans that pay to watch the games.

I don't think there are repercussions for tanking although the 76ers came close. We agree, the incentive for tanking is less but it is still there. I would like a better system if there is one out there.

 

[Mainstreet]

Ill answer that. Yes, we need the 1 or 2 pick to get a difference maker in the draft. No more projects. No more Lens or Benders. We cant wait another three + years to "develop" another top 5 pick project. This season is over for winning. Concentrate on winning next season when it counts.

I will give you a like for honesty.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

If we had drafted Alan Williams last summer, he would be all the rage right now.

That guy.

He looks unathletic and awkward but just seems to inhale rebounds and score down low and below the rim.

He's smart and he gets it. He has the knack for the ball. This cant be taught. He's a undersized center but plays bigger than his height. He def needs to be in the rotation next season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Sure a lot of the hardcore fans want to see us lose for a better spot, but there is a difference between developing your youth and actually tanking.

It is a very fine line if there is one.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Sure a lot of the hardcore fans want to see us lose for a better spot, but there is a difference between developing your youth and actually tanking.

The last couple games are a perfect example of developing youth. They are getting highly competetive game experience, just not the wins.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

It is a very fine line if there is one.

There isn't a fine line actually. People have just been using the term "tanking" too loosely. Tanking is when a team goes out of there way to try and lose (trading their best players, telling the coach to start poor players in place of guys that are way better, etc.). There is a very big difference between going out of your way to lose games and just simply embracing player development without worrying about wins or losses and the latter is what the Suns are doing right now.

 

[pokerface]

Ill answer that. Yes, we need the 1 or 2 pick to get a difference maker in the draft. No more projects. No more Lens or Benders. We cant wait another three + years to "develop" another top 5 pick project. This season is over for winning. Concentrate on winning next season when it counts.

The good news is a top five pick this year might not be such a project...But I get what you're saying.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He's smart and he gets it. He has the knack for the ball. This cant be taught. He's a undersized center but plays bigger than his height. He def needs to be in the rotation next season.

His per 36 numbers are amazing. 18p/16r/2.8b/1.4s

Oh yeah. and 8.4 pf

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

His per 36 numbers are amazing. 18p/16r/2.8b/1.4s

Oh yeah. and 8.4 pf

He'll clean that up with more playing time. Plus the refs are gonna call him more not really knowing him. Ive got more faith in him than the "other" guy going forward.

 

[pokerface]

There isn't a fine line actually. People have just been using the term "tanking" too loosely. Tanking is when a team goes out of there way to try and lose (trading their best players, telling the coach to start poor players in place of guys that are way better, etc.). There is a very big difference between going out of your way to lose games and just simply embracing player development without worrying about wins or losses and the latter is what the Suns are doing right now.

Yeah right...No one tells a player to lose. Different players get played. As a matter of fact we are one of they youngest teams in the NBA and they need to be developed.

And what are we supposed to feel bad about? Have we ever received a #1 pick....No. The Suns one time got a #2 pick... that's it. Also the suns are handicapped because we are a medium sized market and not owned by a billionaire. We are not NY or LA...We dont have owners named Cuban, Allen, or Ballmer. And in recent years we arnt some hotbed free agent destination..The last major free agent star we received was Nash.

So what are we to do...Play by the letter of the rules... out think..out draft..out hussle the other teams. We didn't make the rules. Other teams have benefited now it's OUR TURN.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah right...No one tells a player to lose. Different players get played. As a matter of fact we are one of they youngest teams in the NBA and they need to be developed.

And what are we supposed to feel bad about? Have we ever received a #1 pick....No. The Suns one time got a #2 pick... that's it. Also the suns are handicapped because we are a medium sized market and not owned by a billionaire. We are not NY or LA...We dont have owners named Cuban, Allen, or Ballmer. And in recent years we arnt some hotbed free agent destination..The last major free agent star we received was Nash.

So what are we to do...Play by the letter of the rules... out think..out draft..out hussle the other teams. We didn't make the rules, other teams have benefited now it's OUR TURN.

I'm not sure you read my comment because I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I also never said anything about telling a player to lose. I was simply explaining the difference between "tanking" and what the Suns are doing which is more on the side of "developing".

 

[pokerface]

I'm not sure you read my comment because I'm not disagreeing with anything you said. I also never said anything about telling a player to lose. I was simply explaining the difference between "tanking" and what the Suns are doing which is more on the side of "developing".

I was really talking to mainstreet more than you. I was just agreeing with your post.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I was really talking to mainstreet more than you. I was just agreeing with your post.

You should have activated the directional transmitter on the underside of your keyboard.

 

[Mainstreet]

There isn't a fine line actually. People have just been using the term "tanking" too loosely. Tanking is when a team goes out of there way to try and lose (trading their best players, telling the coach to start poor players in place of guys that are way better, etc.). There is a very big difference between going out of your way to lose games and just simply embracing player development without worrying about wins or losses and the latter is what the Suns are doing right now.

There is more than one means to a goal. Although the Suns are not tanking (I think I said this before) other teams could use the same methodology to tank. I think it is based upon intent.

 

[pokerface]

There is more than one means to a goal. Although the Suns are not tanking (I think I said this before) other teams could use the same methodology to tank. I think it is based upon intent.

Players play the game...They play their best for their own contacts. Players don't get told to lose games. I don't even know what we're debating...

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There is more than one means to a goal. Although the Suns are not tanking (I think I said this before) other teams could use the same methodology to tank. I think it is based upon intent.

I think it is based upon whether you legitimately have young players to develop or not. The suns have 8 players on the roster that each have less than 4 years in the NBA. Five of which were drafted in the lottery. I remember one season where the 6ers didn't have a single player I was familiar with playing regular minutes. It was essentially a D-League team they were trotting out there.