Suns @ Bucks 2-26-17

[pokerface]

I think it is based upon whether you legitimately have young players to develop or not. The suns have 8 players on the roster that each have less than 4 years in the NBA. Five of which were drafted in the lottery. I remember one season where the 6ers didn't have a single player I was familiar with playing regular minutes. It was essentially a D-League team they were trotting out there.

Yeah and was anyone suspended or fined? Some teams have no choice but to play lotto...

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is more than one means to a goal. Although the Suns are not tanking (I think I said this before) other teams could use the same methodology to tank. I think it is based upon intent.

I think it's clear that the front office has instructed Watson to prioritize the development of the younger players but they'd never tell a coach to lose. And Watson is still very much trying to win each game, that's pretty obvious. The players will keep trying to win although at some point, they'll start mailing it in and worrying solely about personal stats. And I'm okay with this kind of tanking.

No one in the organization is trying to lose games for any reason other than competition. They aren't throwing games, they are allowing for losses in the present so they can win in the future and that's a tool that franchises need. That's what happens when you make it all about the championship, you have to let each franchise make strategic decisions that work towards that end.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah right...No one tells a player to lose. Different players get played. As a matter of fact we are one of they youngest teams in the NBA and they need to be developed.

And what are we supposed to feel bad about? Have we ever received a #1 pick....No. The Suns one time got a #2 pick... that's it. Also the suns are handicapped because we are a medium sized market and not owned by a billionaire. We are not NY or LA...We dont have owners named Cuban, Allen, or Ballmer. And in recent years we arnt some hotbed free agent destination..The last major free agent star we received was Nash.

So what are we to do...Play by the letter of the rules... out think..out draft..out hussle the other teams. We didn't make the rules. Other teams have benefited now it's OUR TURN.

I don't feel bad about the Suns losing which I think is the answer to the question I directed to you.

I asked Pokerface:

"So do you want the Suns to lose to get a better lottery pick?"

The Suns are not tanking so I feel no guilt if they lose. However, I'm rooting for the youngsters to win which may result in the Suns losing.

I personally think the Suns should play the veterans less such as Bledsoe but I think the Suns coaching staff is doing a good job of distributing minutes.

 

[Mainstreet]

Players play the game...They play their best for their own contacts. Players don't get told to lose games. I don't even know what we're debating...

Actually, we are not.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it's clear that the front office has instructed Watson to prioritize the development of the younger players but they'd never tell a coach to lose. And Watson is still very much trying to win each game, that's pretty obvious. The players will keep trying to win although at some point, they'll start mailing it in and worrying solely about personal stats. And I'm okay with this kind of tanking.

No one in the organization is trying to lose games for any reason other than competition. They aren't throwing games, they are allowing for losses in the present so they can win in the future and that's a tool that franchises need. That's what happens when you make it all about the championship, you have to let each franchise make strategic decisions that work towards that end.

I think this is what is going on and I believe McDonough even said he wants to look at the younger players the remainder of the season.

 

[pokerface]

I don't feel bad about the Suns losing which I think is the answer to the question I directed to you.

I asked Pokerface:

"So do you want the Suns to lose to get a better lottery pick?"

The Suns are not tanking so I feel no guilt if they lose. However, I'm rooting for the youngsters to win which may result in the Suns losing.

I personally think the Suns should play the veterans less such as Bledsoe but I think the Suns coaching staff is doing a good job of distributing minutes.

Wow mainstreet... You really are the buzz kill today.

Yeah I want the suns to lose for the rest the season...and? Does that make me bad? If so there are a lot of bad (and smart) fans on the board.

I'm not going to defend myself to you bud. You arnt making much sense. The suns are going for the reverse championship and we are going to be entertained one way or another. We as fans can root for whatever we feel helps the suns and makes us happy.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think it is based upon whether you legitimately have young players to develop or not. The suns have 8 players on the roster that each have less than 4 years in the NBA. Five of which were drafted in the lottery. I remember one season where the 6ers didn't have a single player I was familiar with playing regular minutes. It was essentially a D-League team they were trotting out there.

I have been opposed to the way the 76ers rebuild and they are still rebuilding.

 

[pokerface]

Actually, we are not.

Yeah it's more like a failed guilt trip

 

[Mainstreet]

Wow mainstreet... You really are the buzz kill today.

Yeah I want the suns to lose for the rest the season...and? Does that make me bad? If so there are a lot of bad (and smart) fans on the board.

I think most Suns fans want the Suns to lose without tanking by developing the young players. I do and I have said the same.

I'm not going to defend myself to you bud. You arnt making much sense. The suns are going for the reverse championship and we are going to be entertained one way or another. We as fans can root for whatever we feel helps the suns and makes us happy.

Somehow, I think the general definition of tanking is being intertwined with what the Suns are doing... developing the youngsters.

I hope most Suns fans can sit back and can enjoy watching players such as Ulis, Jones and Williams.

 

[Mainstreet]

Yeah it's more like a failed guilt trip

I don't think you ever understood my intent.

 

[Errntknght]

What I hate is all the minutes we lavished on guys who are not part of the future... well, that and wearing out Bled... oh yeah, and not running a well organized offense. Ooops, I forgot failing to find out if Len is or is not starter material from day 1 of the season - as if we had more important things to do. At least we learned Coach FeelGood is not up to the job as far as X's & O's are concerned. Fare thee well, Earl.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What I hate is all the minutes we lavished on guys who are not part of the future... well, that and wearing out Bled... oh yeah, and not running a well organized offense. Ooops, I forgot failing to find out if Len is or is not starter material from day 1 of the season - as if we had more important things to do. At least we learned Coach FeelGood is not up to the job as far as X's & O's are concerned. Fare thee well, Earl.

I agree with the first part. I'm unimpressed by Watson's in game coaching and whatever system he's running but we hired a young, inexperienced head coach, AFAIC, this is part of the cost. It will take another season or two to know for sure whether he has it or not.

 

[Errntknght]

I agree with the first part. I'm unimpressed by Watson's in game coaching and whatever system he's running but we hired a young, inexperienced head coach AFAIC, this is part of the cost. It will take another season or two to know for sure whether he has it or not.

He's was a PG, I expect him to know how to put an offense together. I expected the same thing from Hornacek and never saw it. In a way its worse now because we have a raft of young guys who are not learning the right stuff. If he installs a more organized offense next year I'll give him props for it - I'll also be quite surprised.

Of course you have to blame the front office for going with such an inexperienced coach - he didn't even spend a significant amount of time as an assistant. The FO didn't do their 'due diligence'. Such hubris.

 

[leclerc]

So much more fun to watch the team without PJ (and Knight) in there. More of TJ, Chriss, Williams and Ulis. Get back soon, Bender!

Beasley has not gotten prettier with age. Hope he's in a good place mentally and playing wise with Milwaukee.

Next year I'd like us to sign Len to a reasonable contract and have him be our starter. Move Chandler to a place he wants to go. Have Williams be our backup center. I think Len and Sauce are enough for rotation centers. Let the rest go to Chriss and Bender and Warren. Draft a stud and have a guard group of stud, Booker, Bledsoe and Ulis. Barbosa and Duds are fine bench guys.

 

[pokerface]

A lot of fans say they want Len for a reasonable contract...I don't even know what that would be since some of these same fans want to base some of that salary on the fact that his age is 23. When we start handing out contacts based on age and letting other teams set the price things get very murky.

The more murky it is the more I want to back off the situation or we will end up with another Brandon Knight dillema.... giving out contacts based on youth and potential instead of production.

 

[AzStevenCal]

A lot of fans say they want Len for a reasonable contract...I don't even know what that would be since some of these same fans want to base some of that salary on the fact that his age is 23. When we start handing out contacts based on age and letting other teams set the price things get very murky.

The more murky it is the more I want to back off the situation or we will end up with another Brandon Knight dillema.... giving out contacts based on youth and potential instead of production.

It's not that we WANT to do that, it's the way the league works.

 

[pokerface]

It's not that we WANT to do that, it's the way the league works.

I feel the Knight deal soured me on youth and potential paydays. I want Len paid more on what he is now but with other teams setting the price that wont be the case.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I feel the Knight deal soured me on youth and potential paydays. I want Len paid more on what he is now but with other teams setting the price that wont be the case.

I have no problem with how Knight is paid, it's how Knight has played that annoys me. If you're going to give a guard 20 to 25 minutes per game, he ought to easily be able to earn Knight's contract.

 

[BC867]

He's was a PG, I expect him to know how to put an offense together. I expected the same thing from Hornacek and never saw it. In a way its worse now because we have a raft of young guys who are not learning the right stuff. If he installs a more organized offense next year I'll give him props for it - I'll also be quite surprised.

Of course you have to blame the front office for going with such an inexperienced coach - he didn't even spend a significant amount of time as an assistant. The FO didn't do their 'due diligence'. Such hubris.

You also have to blame the Front Office for fielding team after team with too many Point Guards/all pretenders. At best, even an improved Bledsoe leaves him as less than a true NBA facilitator or team leader. It is not good enough to think, "He's not as bad as he was." And Knight, of course, is a disaster.

A youth movement with both of our leading scorers in the backcourt is not a well rounded plan. Is the upcoming draft going to change the team philosophy? Or will it take a change in philosophy to alter the results of our upcoming draft?

Until the fans see the Front Office abandon its Guard obsession (which has led to disappointment season after season), nothing is going to improve our status in the competitive NBA.

The biggest "I" factor (inexperience) on the Suns starts with the owner and rolls downhill. Unfortunately, "downhill" describes the team we root for.

 

[sunsfan88]

I have no problem with how Knight is paid, it's how Knight has played that annoys me. If you're going to give a guard 20 to 25 minutes per game, he ought to easily be able to earn Knight's contract.

Knight was paid on potential and not actual play. Because when he got paid, the cap was much lower than it is now and it was almost a max contract for Knight with only $2-3M/yr being apart from a max contract at the time.

 

[pokerface]

Knight was paid on potential and not actual play. Because when he got paid, the cap was much lower than it is now and it was almost a max contract for Knight with only $2-3M/yr being apart from a max contract at the time.

Yeah right... Knight was overpaid because he was young and they thought he would get better. Now we are facing the same decisions with Len.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Knight was paid on potential and not actual play. Because when he got paid, the cap was much lower than it is now and it was almost a max contract for Knight with only $2-3M/yr being apart from a max contract at the time.

Yeah right... Knight was overpaid because he was young and they thought he would get better. Now we are facing the same decisions with Len.

No, Knight was paid as much because of how he'd played in Milwaukee as he was on potential. And they already knew the Cap was going to skyrocket (they knew that when they signed Bledsoe) and that both guards contracts would be very manageable under the new system. He just hasn't performed as advertised let alone took the next step everyone hoped he'd take.

 

[pokerface]

No, Knight was paid as much because of how he'd played in Milwaukee as he was on potential. And they already knew the Cap was going to skyrocket (they knew that when they signed Bledsoe) and that both guards contracts would be very manageable under the new system. He just hasn't performed as advertised let alone took the next step everyone hoped he'd take.

I don't care what you think the ratio was...They were paying for upside and they got regression.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't care what you think the ratio was...They were paying for upside and they got regression.

The point is, it's a very reasonable contract for the job we want him to fulfill, he just isn't doing the job. We'd gladly hand that money out to his replacement as long as he could give us 20 to 25 minutes of effective basketball each game.

 

[JCSunsfan]

You also have to blame the Front Office for fielding team after team with too many Point Guards/all pretenders. At best, even an improved Bledsoe leaves him as less than a true NBA facilitator or team leader. It is not good enough to think, "He's not as bad as he was." And Knight, of course, is a disaster.

A youth movement with both of our leading scorers in the backcourt is not a well rounded plan. Is the upcoming draft going to change the team philosophy? Or will it take a change in philosophy to alter the results of our upcoming draft?

Until the fans see the Front Office abandon its Guard obsession (which has led to disappointment season after season), nothing is going to improve our status in the competitive NBA.

The biggest "I" factor (inexperience) on the Suns starts wiChth the owner and rolls downhill. Unfortunately, "downhill" describes the team we root for.

This team has three seven footers. And they play when healthy. We have only two starters at the guard position. We are trying to see what we have in Ulis for a backup. We start and play traditionally sized players at every position. They play a small ball line up no more, probably less, than any other NBA team does.

The guard obsession was two years ago. Time to catch up.