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Another team with a promise?
Suns draft workouts
- Thread starter Ronin
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Chaplin
Better off silent
I can understand why Fultz, Ball and even Jackson wouldn't work out for the Suns, but Fox? That seems VERY strange at this point.
Could it be that the Celtics will trade the #1 to Sacramento and Sac will take Fox #1? Is that even a possibility? What other team would make a promise to Fox? For that matter, which 2 teams ahead of us would make promises to Fox and Jackson?
GatorAZ
feed hopkins
#5 and #10 isn't nearly enough to get #1 so I doubt it. If it's true JJ and Fox have a promise before Phoenix then it's true the Lakers aren't high on Lonzo. So far only Isaac, Fox and Tatum have worked out among the censesus top-10 guys. Who else is left if Fox, JJ, Fultz and Ball don't come in? Only Smith and Markannen i suppose...
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The Kings might be hoping the Suns let Fox slide to #5 if he does not grant a workout for the Suns. Fox probably wants to go to a team where he can start. Maybe the Suns should start talking to the Magic or another team who could use a PG. Make the Kings or other teams start to wonder about who the Suns select at #4.
I just listened, the suns aren't the team that jackson cancelled the workout with and told gambo jackson has a promise. Couldn't that just be a team below 4 jackson doesn't want to work out with? Weird, gambo said a team told him 100% promise.
Also said tatum was great in the suns workout, shot the ball better than monk, and suns even think he is good enough to to be 1a scoring option with booker.
Gambo thinks he is slightly ahead of issac, and may even be ahead of ball if they are both there at 4.
Also said tatum was great in the suns workout, shot the ball better than monk, and suns even think he is good enough to to be 1a scoring option with booker.
Gambo thinks he is slightly ahead of issac, and may even be ahead of ball if they are both there at 4.
overseascardfan
ASFN Addict
Gambo insinuated the team that promised Jackson is the Lakers because they've seen him work out already. Fox cancelled his workout with PHX maybe because Bledsoe & Ulis are on the roster but maybe PHI has zeroed in on him. So first 3 picks could be Fultz, Jackson, Fox which would leave Ball there at #4??
mojorizen7
ASFN Addict
Fultz, Fox and Jackson are the only three players i'd draft at #4. If those guys are gone i'm looking to move down.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I used to be like that, but I'm liking Ball more and more.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
If Ball is available at 4, you have to take him. The only way you pass on him is if you are convinced the father is an absolutely insane and cannot be controlled.
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So both Jackson and Fox are cancelling workouts with Phoenix.
Wow. There used to be a time when Phoenix was actually a desirable NBA destination for players.
Wow. There used to be a time when Phoenix was actually a desirable NBA destination for players.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Jackson hasn't cancelled his workout with us--he's scheduled for Wednesday.
Errntknght
Registered User
If Ball falls to us, I think we should listen to offers for the #4 pick. I'd trade it for the 5 & 10 - but of course, McD may not see it that way. There may be another offer he likes better though which he would take.
Chaplin
Better off silent
We may listen, but if Ball is there, he might be one of the most coveted #4 picks in Draft history. Why not just keep him? As a player, he might be more valuable than the 5 and 10.
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Gambo said he cancelled the workout with us too according to a guy who was listening to Gambo on the radio today on RealGM.
elindholm
edited for content
I think the father is a smokescreen to cover up Ball's legitimate basketball weaknesses. He's never going to be an adequate shooter in the NBA.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
You are not buying the "Jason Kidd with an adequate jumper" comparisons?
elindholm
edited for content
No. Kidd was an inaccurate shooter as a young pro, but his form never looked that ugly.
SirStefan32
Krycek, Alex Krycek
Agreed, but if (and that's a big if) Ball is as good of a distributor, he really only needs to be an adequate shooter (I'd say low-to-mid 30s from three) to be very effective. He is also very tall, so he should be able to shoot over PGs.
Either way, I'd hate to be the guy who has to choose between all that's available in this draft. Everyone has certain holes in their games, but so many players have so much potential. Some poor GM is going to pick a proverbial Darko Milicic before Wade, Bosh, Anthony, West, etc.
Chaplin
Better off silent
What does form have to do with it? #ShawnMarion #BillCartwright
Besides, if Jason Kidd could improve his shot in his career (which he did), why can't a 19-year-old kid?
elindholm
edited for content
Right. So if he's generational in one skill, then that might be enough to make up for his inability to shoot and his insane father-agent. No thanks.
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elindholm
edited for content
Those are two awfully peculiar examples. Marion was a freaky quick leaper and scored most of his points on fast breaks or slashing. Cartwright was a 7-1 center whose career shooting from 3-point range was 0-for-2.
If I read about someone who got a winning lottery ticket, why can't mine also be a big winner?
Also, it's a myth that Kidd improved his shooting, except from the line. His overall FG% hovered around .400 for his career and his 3FG% was .350. That's true whether you look at his early years or his late ones. He had two years in his mid-30s when he shot the three very well, but after that his numbers declined again. There may be a slight overall upward trend in the numbers, but you'd have to hash it out with a linear regression to see it.
Kidd got more selective in his shooting and learned how to find shots as a third or fourth option. In his last All-Star year, 1995-96, he averaged only 3.2 two-point attempts per game, while still playing 36 minutes. That's one two-point shot per 11 minutes of playing time. Imagine that! He was on a team with a bunch of other strong scorers, including Nowitzki still in his prime, so he could get away with it.
The unique set of circumstances that allowed Kidd to succeed as an incompetent shooter are very unlikely to be repeated. It would be a foolish gamble to waste a high pick on Ball when you need a Kidd-like scenario for it to pay off.
OP
OP
Gerald Bourguet @GeraldBourguet
Individual workout for Gonzaga's Zach Collins with the Phoenix #Suns today
Individual workout for Gonzaga's Zach Collins with the Phoenix #Suns today
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I really don't get this "inability to shoot" stuff. His shot's ugly, but it's pretty damn good. And for everyone talking about he won't be able to get it off in the pros, remember, he's probably going to have a 4 inch advantage on whatever PG is guarding him. He'll be able to get that off and if teams have to put their SG on him or a SF, then it creates a mismatch for the team somewhere else.
That 6'6 size is huge, especially for a guy who's athletic. And Kelvin Martin's shot was super funky and it didn't matter. Balls gets the shot up quick and was killer from long-range in college. Like CURRY long-range. I get being concerned about it... a little, but to flat out say he can't shoot isn't true.
hcsilla
ASFN Lifer
I think the concerns regarding Ball's shooting motion are legit.
It's fine if he can hit those in college but I have a hard time to see them go through against NBA defenders (PG's or not).
Having said that Ball seems to be a special talent: his athleticism, length, court-vision, defensive potential are very unique in this combination.
At # 4 you just don't hesitate if he is there: you simply take him. Then trade whatever combination of Bledsoe, Warren and MIA picks for #5 and take Jackson as well.
It's fine if he can hit those in college but I have a hard time to see them go through against NBA defenders (PG's or not).
Having said that Ball seems to be a special talent: his athleticism, length, court-vision, defensive potential are very unique in this combination.
At # 4 you just don't hesitate if he is there: you simply take him. Then trade whatever combination of Bledsoe, Warren and MIA picks for #5 and take Jackson as well.
