Suns fire McD

[JCSunsfan]

Yep. If you simply take Sarver at his word, he did not think McD is the guy he wants taking us the next step.

OK. Fine. I would not have fired McD because I have no confidence in Sarver's ability to make a good hire to replace him. But it is what it is.

I do think that the decision coming up about whether to pick up Bender's option or not probably is a factor. Not sure who would be on what side.

 

[Hoop Head]

No it's not. This just circles back to what the Sarver critics have been saying all along.

Sarver is the real problem. Looks like he's the jackass who kept the team away from true tanking.

What are you talking about, we were truly tanking last year and the final half of the previous season. There is no debating that we tanked. What more should have been done?

 

[SirStefan32]

I am with Sarver. But I think I am the only one. He says things are going to look better after the summer. You give him the summer and the draft and all. Then you look at the make up and play of the team in October. If things have really improved, you keep him, if not, you fire him.

Sarver is probably getting feedback from players and front office personnel around the league.

One other thing. This front office has a big decision to make about Dragan Bender in the next few weeks. If they were at odds about what should be done there, it could have been the final straw.

You are not the only one. I am in agreement as well.

 

[BC867]

Would you rather have kept McD?

He should have been dismissed at the end of last season.

What I would rather have seen is Sarver recognizing that we needed a GM with the credentials to say to him, when need be, "You hired me to do this job. Now trust me to do it!"

The tie-in is that Sarver just said on the air that he does not micromanage. The need for him to say that indicates that it is a factor. He just made it that.

And by turning the position over to two in-house underlings, there is no indication that it will change.

 

[AzStevenCal]

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That's BS. He gave a lot of specifics, just not the juicy ones that all of us gossip addicted fans would love to hear. I want to hear him say that drafting Chriss or Bender or Jackson was a stupid move or trading up for Bridges was a killer etc, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing for him to do. He did the right thing, he didn't drag anyone through the mud as much as we all wished he would.

 

[Hoop Head]

I don't blame Sarver for thinking we should be at the end of our rebuild and start trending upward, that's how it looks for teams that snag the #1 overall pick when there is a great prospect at the top of the draft for them to take. I think it was interesting he didn't make any prediction on this season but also said that enough progress wasn't made. This team isn't a playoff team and it shouldn't be right now but it should be closer than it is with their lack of a PG and a PF headed forward but yet we have a half dozen good wings. That makes no sense in terms of construction of the roster.

I found another interesting part of the interview is when Sarver talked about bringing in James Jones last offseason as someone to help them communicate with players because McD had failed to do that well and Sarver mentioned talking to Jones last night. I would think they discussed the firing even though Sarver tried to take full responsibility. I thought when he was talking up Jones and said he spoke with him last night about something he realized after he said that how it sounded, that he spoke with him just 12 hours or so before this happened and this move was likely discussed. Gambo and Burns didn't press or even ask about that comment by Sarver though and I would have liked them to because that was a good chance to push for more info on when he decided to fire McD but I can see why they didn't also, they always get Sarver on when big Suns news happens and they don't want to ruin that. I did like Sarver's excitement about Ayton when the conversation turned there also.

 

[AzStevenCal]

He should have been dismissed at the end of last season.

What I would rather have seen is Sarver recognizing that we needed a GM with the credentials to say to him, when need be, "You hired me to do this job. Now trust me to do it!"

The tie-in is that Sarver just said on the air that he does not micromanage. The need for him to say that indicates that it has not been a factor. He just reiterated it.

And by turning the position over to two in-house underlings, there is no indication that it will change.

He said it because they kept asking him about it. He acknowledged that he used to be too involved and according to him, that stopped even though the perception still remains. Ryan has also said the same thing before, it will be interesting to see if something else comes from the Ryan camp now that he's no longer here.

 

[Hoop Head]

I am with Sarver. But I think I am the only one. He says things are going to look better after the summer. You give him the summer and the draft and all. Then you look at the make up and play of the team in October. If things have really improved, you keep him, if not, you fire him.

Sarver is probably getting feedback from players and front office personnel around the league.

One other thing. This front office has a big decision to make about Dragan Bender in the next few weeks. If they were at odds about what should be done there, it could have been the final straw.

I don't agree with this 100% but I am with Sarver on this move more than I am against him. I think this should have happened before preseason but I'm ok with it happening. The timing isn't awful but it's curious and I think a little too late. At the beginning of training camp McD should have needed to explain what he acquired and if Sarver wasn't happy that was when he should have let him go. Deals don't often get made at that time, they do happen just before the season starts sometimes if teams have holes to fill for whatever reason but our holes were apparent when the team reported to camp and they didn't get fixed and weren't likely to until just before or after the regular season got going, that's why I think it should have happened 2 weeks ago instead of today, since it did happen at all.

 

[SirStefan32]

He said it because they kept asking him about it. He acknowledged that he used to be too involved and according to him, that stopped even though the perception still remains. Ryan has also said the same thing before, it will be interesting to see if something else comes from the Ryan camp now that he's no longer here.

I believe Sarver. I started believing he took a back seat when the Dragic saga went down. Old Sarver would have stepped in.

 

[GatorAZ]

I believe Sarver because the preseason has exposed the PG situation and the real games start soon. I’m glad McD is gone but if he didn’t want to trade anything significant for Jeff Teague then good on him. I’m keeping our unprotected pick for any PG short of Steph Curry lol.

 

[JCSunsfan]

BTW. Am I correct in this? I cannot remember hearing players saying they did not like Sarver. In fact, they all seem to like him.

It was McD and his communication issues. I could be wrong on this.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He should have been dismissed at the end of last season.

What I would rather have seen is Sarver recognizing that we needed a GM with the credentials to say to him, when need be, "You hired me to do this job. Now trust me to do it!"

The tie-in is that Sarver just said on the air that he does not micromanage. The need for him to say that indicates that it is a factor. He just made it that.

And by turning the position over to two in-house underlings, there is no indication that it will change.

At the end of the season is the worst time to fire a GM. There are too many things already going. THIS is the time of year you evaluate a GM and decided to make a change.

 

[SirStefan32]

BTW. Am I correct in this? I cannot remember hearing players saying they did not like Sarver. In fact, they all seem to like him.

It was McD and his communication issues. I could be wrong on this.

Mike James and one of the Morris twins, if I remember correctly. Outside of that, there have been no public statements.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I believe Sarver. I started believing he took a back seat when the Dragic saga went down. Old Sarver would have stepped in.

I do too. I think Sarver learned a lot about his shortcomings as a basketball mind from his Childress/Warrick/Turkoglu debacle and once money was no longer a pressing issue, he gave Ryan all the room he needed to run it his way. And Ryan did a lot of good things but he's proved time and again that he's not cut out for the public side of the business. And then there's his less than ideal scouting and drafting history which was supposed to be his strength.

 

[Hoop Head]

BTW. Am I correct in this? I cannot remember hearing players saying they did not like Sarver. In fact, they all seem to like him.

It was McD and his communication issues. I could be wrong on this.

You are correct, I believe. I don't think a player has bashed Sarver outside of retired players like Barkley. No players who have played for the Suns have said anything negative about him though, not even Shaq when Barkley is going on an anti-Sarver rant and I think that's telling. Shaq is not one to bite his tongue. He has said that Phoenix was a paycheck for him since he's retired but hasn't bashed the organization. He said he wished he could have done more but he was an All-Star as a Sun after all and that should count for something. I think the only thing Shaq has said about Sarver is how Sarver encouraged him to talk title when he was acquired. That isn't a bad thing, IMO. Sarver was a clueless fan then and we all knew/know that. Shaq was a big deal still when we acquired him, he quickly became once he left but he wasn't awful here.

 

[AzStevenCal]

At the end of the season is the worst time to fire a GM. There are too many things already going. THIS is the time of year you evaluate a GM and decided to make a change.

Absolutely. There's always something going on for the GM position but I can't think of a much worse time to fire one than at the end of the season.

 

[SirStefan32]

I do too. I think Sarver learned a lot about his shortcomings as a basketball mind from his Childress/Warrick/Turkoglu debacle and once money was no longer a pressing issue, he gave Ryan all the room he needed to run it his way. And Ryan did a lot of good things but he's proved time and again that he's not cut out for the public side of the business. And then there's his less than ideal scouting and drafting history which was supposed to be his strength.

I am even OK with giving McD a pass for scouting and drafting. Everyone has hits and misses. I'd argue that Booker and Warren make up for Bender and Chriss, and that. However, he has no people skills, and no understanding the fact that employees (players) are human beings. He is also stubborn, in my opinion. The multiple point guards thing is a great example.

My guess is that McD assured Sarver they would have a point guard by the training camp, and he failed to deliver.

 

[Hoop Head]

It seems the fear that a lot of us had about McD putting us in a tough spot without a PG and other teams taking advantage of us dealing from a position of weakness is a part of this, there's really no denying that at this point. If a deal was held up because of him that made sense I would like to think James Jones would have made Sarver aware and then McD would have been canned with the deal going through within the next day or two.

I guess that could happen still and the way Sarver ended his radio interview seemed like he was hinting at something, IMO. He said he hopes the next time he's on he'll have a more positive thing to discuss or something like that, I can't remember the verbiage he used but it seemed to hint at something more than what I've written.

 

[Mainstreet]

I am even OK with giving McD a pass for scouting and drafting. Everyone has hits and misses. I'd argue that Booker and Warren make up for Bender and Chriss, and that. However, he has no people skills, and no understanding the fact that employees (players) are human beings. He is also stubborn, in my opinion. The multiple point guards thing is a great example.

My guess is that McD assured Sarver they would have a point guard by the training camp, and he failed to deliver.

I think the Suns not having a starting point guard as the season nears is telling as well.

My guess is if McDonough had traded for one earlier (like during the draft) the firing would not be happening now.

However, I no longer trusted McDonough with the draft so it would have probably only postponed the decision.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am even OK with giving McD a pass for scouting and drafting. Everyone has hits and misses. I'd argue that Booker and Warren make up for Bender and Chriss, and that. However, he has no people skills, and no understanding the fact that employees (players) are human beings. He is also stubborn, in my opinion. The multiple point guards thing is a great example.

My guess is that McD assured Sarver they would have a point guard by the training camp, and he failed to deliver.

I don't think he's been horrible at drafting but I would say he's been a disappointment. And I really point to the Chriss selection for that. I think it's arguably the greatest draft blunder in modern NBA history. Oh sure, there's been far worse picks, Bender for example. But in this case, IMO, had anyone in that department actually watched him play basketball, we would have never considered him. We all sit around and watch highlights and get all excited but I think we have the right to expect better of that from the professionals. And in this case, they clearly didn't do their work.

As for PG, yeah, I think Ryan expected to have one by now and I'm sure that was a sticking point for Sarver. I suspect that we would have had one by now if we hadn't made the Bridges trade. So Sarver is looking at a team that has no point guard and apparently no power forward and wondering how McDonough failed to improve at 2 of our 3 greatest areas of need.

 

[SirStefan32]

It seems the fear that a lot of us had about McD putting us in a tough spot without a PG and other teams taking advantage of us dealing from a position of weakness is a part of this, there's really no denying that at this point. If a deal was held up because of him that made sense I would like to think James Jones would have made Sarver aware and then McD would have been canned with the deal going through within the next day or two.

I guess that could happen still and the way Sarver ended his radio interview seemed like he was hinting at something, IMO. He said he hopes the next time he's on he'll have a more positive thing to discuss or something like that, I can't remember the verbiage he used but it seemed to hint at something more than what I've written.

Yeah, Sarver wouldn't come out and say it, but this is about a point guard in some way. I expect we'll see a trade in a day or two, and I think the Suns are going to overpay.

 

[Raindog]

I am even OK with giving McD a pass for scouting and drafting. Everyone has hits and misses. I'd argue that Booker and Warren make up for Bender and Chriss, and that.

To be fair, none of his picks, with the obvious exception of Ennis, really looked like stinkers at the time. Hindsight is 20-20.

I was more frustrated with his trades. He never seemed to have a clear idea how to build a cohesive roster, and many of the trades and FA signings seemed to be rather random... simply for the sake of re-arranging the furniture, so to speak, instead of getting a better, more complete set of furniture.

 

[GatorAZ]

It’s only a matter of time before they trade for Dragic. I remember when Sarver nixed the Felton signing and brought in Dragic personally. Normally you want your owner to stay out of it but that decision worked out.

 

[SirStefan32]

To be fair, none of his picks, with the obvious exception of Ennis, really looked like stinkers at the time. Hindsight is 20-20.

I was more frustrated with his trades. He never seemed to have a clear idea how to build a cohesive roster, and many of the trades and FA signings seemed to be rather random... simply for the sake of re-arranging the furniture, so to speak, instead of getting a better, more complete set of furniture.

Agreed.

 

[SirStefan32]

It’s only a matter of time before they trade for Dragic. I remember when Sarver nixed the Felton signing and brought in Dragic personally. Normally you want your owner to stay out of it but that decision worked out.

I looked that up a week or two ago, and it's a really cool story. He met with Dragic and they made a deal in the parking garage.