Suns pursuing Iman Shumpert

[Phrazbit]

How is Randolph notably better? On what planet is he notable better?

Earth.

Randolph is much better on the glass, much better defensively and just as good at scoring. And I've seen Randolph take over games and dominate on a big stage.

 

[elindholm]

Are there any advanced metrics that show Randolph to be a better defender than Jefferson? I'd be surprised. I've always thought that Randolph was weak defensively.

I'd give Jefferson the edge in value because of the players' ages, but I agree that they are similar offensively.

 

[Phrazbit]

Are there any advanced metrics that show Randolph to be a better defender than Jefferson? I'd be surprised. I've always thought that Randolph was weak defensively.

I'd give Jefferson the edge in value because of the players' ages, but I agree that they are similar offensively.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12UTA14.HTM#onoff

There is Jefferson's on court/off court stats. Utah is better defensively by a huuuuge margin when he is on the bench.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12MEM14.HTM#onoff

There are Randolph's. As I said earlier, Randolph is not a good defender but he holds his own decently, the Grizz get better defensively when he is resting but its marginal. Randolph was an inept defender early in his career but since he finally had things "click" in Memphis he has also become a serviceable defender.

Jefferson gives up a 19 PER to opposing centers while Randolph gives up a PER of 13 to opposing power forwards. System is certainly a big factor in defense and Zach certainly benefits from Memphis being a sound defensive team. However, Utah for the most part plays good team defense also, and (as noted before) when Jefferson is out of the game they significantly improve defensively.

 

[elindholm]

Okay, fair enough.

 

[jagu]

Why do the rebuilding Suns want Al Jefferson? Pointless.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Why do the pointless Suns want Al Jefferson? Rebuilding?

FTFY.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

Babby says we aren't rebuilding. We're retooling.

 

[BC867]

Babby says we aren't rebuilding. We're retooling.

Here is a definition I found online for a bunch of tools.

A person, typically male, who says or does things that cause you to give them a 'what-are-you-even-doing-here' look. The 'what-are-you-even-doing-here' look is classified by a glare in the tool's direction and is usually accompanied by muttering of how big of a tool they are. The tool is usually someone who is unwelcome but no one has the balls to tell them to get lost. The tool is alwasys making comments that are out-of-place, out-of-line or just plain stupid. The tool is always trying too hard to fit in, and because of this, never will. However, the tool is useful because you can use them for things; money, rides, etc.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tool

 

[jagu]

Babby says we aren't rebuilding. We're retooling.

Maybe they should just hire Tim from Home Improvement.

 

[cly2tw]

These deals seem to have no rhyme or reason.

my sentiment entirely.

 

[Errntknght]

Jefferson seems senseless, especially if we're trying to strengthen the team defensively.

Shumpert and Hayward are young, which is a very desirable trait for us. Shumpert poses some health risk but if our medical/training staff give him a green light, why wouldn't we want him?

 

[Mainstreet]

Jefferson seems senseless, especially if we're trying to strengthen the team defensively.

Shumpert and Hayward are young, which is a very desirable trait for us. Shumpert poses some health risk but if our medical/training staff give him a green light, why wouldn't we want him?

If Shumpert would cost the Suns a first round draft pick plus Dudley, I'd rather pass. I might part with Dudley and a lesser second round pick but that's it. Maybe I've been drinking the koolaid too much but I'm beginning to like the talent even into the second round of the 2013 NBA draft.

 

[Errntknght]

My bad, Mainstreet, I thought the deal was for Duds straight up but which first round draft pick? Ours, no, of course. I've been hearing this draft is pretty deep, too, just light at the top so one would have to ponder giving up the pick we get from the Lakers...

 

[Mainstreet]

My bad, Mainstreet, I thought the deal was for Duds straight up but which first round draft pick? Ours, no, of course. I've been hearing this draft is pretty deep, too, just light at the top so one would have to ponder giving up the pick we get from the Lakers...

I would do Dudley for Shumpert but no first round draft picks. Maybe add a lesser second round pick but not an early second round pick. I do not view Shumpert as a sure thing.

 

[sunsfan88]

Apparently the Knicks are trying to trade him too cause he's unhappy in NY.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/knicks-open-to-trading-iman-shumpert.html

 

[BC867]

Apparently the Knicks are trying to trade him too cause he's unhappy in NY.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/knicks-open-to-trading-iman-shumpert.html

Which probably means that he would be even more unhappy in Phoenix. Like Gortat. And who could blame them?

 

[Chaz]

Apparently the Knicks are trying to trade him too cause he's unhappy in NY.

http://www.hoopsrumors.com/2013/02/knicks-open-to-trading-iman-shumpert.html

I suspected this about this trade and the Josh Smith rumors.

I am sure Phoenix is talking to pretty much everyone who calls and the other side will leak the story to try and get things moving saying that Phoenix is interested.

Phoenix would be a place I would call if I wanted to move players because they have draft picks.

 

[sunsfan88]

Which probably means that he would be even more unhappy in Phoenix. Like Gortat. And who could blame them?

Why would be be unhappy in PHX? He's upset in NY cause he's being forced out of his natural position as SG and cause their not developing him.

Both those things would be immediately solved in PHX.

 

[BC867]

Why would be be unhappy in PHX? He's upset in NY cause he's being forced out of his natural position as SG and cause their not developing him.

Both those things would be immediately solved in PHX.

Because we have a relatively untalented owner and Front Office that has shown that it is not too damn bright in putting together a balanced and winning team.

In general, a player would have to be narcissistic to be the best talent on a horrible team vs. a good player on a winning team. Except, of course, if it is personal because he is not being allowed to use his best assets.

 

[Folster]

I'd like to see Dudley and Telfair to NY for Shumpert and Camby. Then trade Gortat to OKC for the Toronto pick, PJ3 and Perkins. If the Lakers miss the playoffs then we have 3 lotto picks. Snag the best wing possible and a young center like Alex Len. If there is a player we like with the Lakers pick, take him or trade the pick for a pick in the following draft.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'd like to see Dudley and Telfair to NY for Shumpert and Camby. Then trade Gortat to OKC for the Toronto pick, PJ3 and Perkins. If the Lakers miss the playoffs then we have 3 lotto picks. Snag the best wing possible and a young center like Alex Len. If there is a player we like with the Lakers pick, take him or trade the pick for a pick in the following draft.

Brown and the Minny pick for Shump and the Ghost of Kurt Thomas

 

[JCSunsfan]

Because we have a relatively untalented owner and Front Office that has shown that it is not too damn bright in putting together a balanced and winning team.

In general, a player would have to be narcissistic to be the best talent on a horrible team vs. a good player on a winning team. Except, of course, if it is personal because he is not being allowed to use his best assets.

We are rebuilding. We put it off for quite a while. The fact that we have lots of picks is evidence of a good step in the process.

Yes, most players are that narcissistic. See Joe Johnson, James Hardin, etc.

 

[PhxGametime]

I haven't seen Shumpert play since injury but I'm starting to believe the Suns should keep their Draft Picks unless a star/semi-star is available. I really liked Shumpert in the Draft (would've been my Pick) but it scares me Trading for an athlete coming off injury... leg injuries are scary.

I envisioned him as a Iguodala like talent with great athleticism, size, defender, etc. - I also have a feeling he'd be asked to take over games but I see him as a (possibly elite) complimentary player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

ACL injuries are fully recoverable these days as long you take the time to rehab.

Although, I do agree. The focus for the Suns right now should be collecting assets and looking for a face of the franchise.

I am not sure giving up Dudley is wise. He is the rare player who WANTS to be here. He has the ethic and attitude that can provide a locker room culture to build around. I don't think I would trade him for a mid-level player like Shumpert (even if Shumpert is the better player long term). If we had an opportunity for a star caliber player and the team was demanding that we throw Duds in the deal, I would consider it.

 

[AzStevenCal]

ACL injuries are fully recoverable these days as long you take the time to rehab.

Although, I do agree. The focus for the Suns right now should be collecting assets and looking for a face of the franchise.

I am not sure giving up Dudley is wise. He is the rare player who WANTS to be here. He has the ethic and attitude that can provide a locker room culture to build around. I don't think I would trade him for a mid-level player like Shumpert (even if Shumpert is the better player long term). If we had an opportunity for a star caliber player and the team was demanding that we throw Duds in the deal, I would consider it.

I'm not saying you're wrong but what are you basing your "wants to be here" comment on? As for his ethic, maybe it's just me but he doesn't look as lean or chiseled as I'd expect that type of player to be.

He frequently appears to be outworked by the other guy. When he gets up against a motor guy he just seems to coast. I'm having trouble reconciling this with the player we first brought in. Even when he was more of a doughboy he seemed to always have an extra gear. I don't see it very often anymore and that started the day Amare left. Compare his effort now to his effort 3 years ago, he used to play a lot more like Tucker than he does today IMO.

Steve