Suns - Sonics Game Thread

[Wally]

Well, we won but I’ve about had it and I’m tired of complaining. Watching this team is not much fun right now and listening to Bender is worse than listening to that idiot broadcaster of the Rockets and about on an even keel with those guys from Boston. I should feel a lot better than this when we win. Am I alone? Was this a great win or was the only thing good about it was the fact that we won.
On the other hand, it was great seeing Barbosa back in action and I'm looking forward to the return of Amare & Z.

 

[elindholm]

Watching this team is not much fun right now and listening to Bender is worse than listening to that idiot broadcaster of the Rockets and about on an even keel with those guys from Boston.

Ouch! And people say I'm negative.

Come on. How can you not like a team that wins in spite of shooting less than 40% from the field, getting outrebounded by 18, and committing 6 more fouls?

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
That was just a spectacular pass and finish at the end. Did anyone else think there should have been a foul called on that alley-oop?

Joe Mama

Yep, I yelled "AND ONE" - my wife came out of the closet (I lock her up - or sometimes she just hides there in the close games) to see what got me excited enough to yell.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by elindholm
Watching this team is not much fun right now and listening to Bender is worse than listening to that idiot broadcaster of the Rockets and about on an even keel with those guys from Boston.

Ouch! And people say I'm negative.

Come on. How can you not like a team that wins in spite of shooting less than 40% from the field, getting outrebounded by 18, and committing 6 more fouls?

It's great to read such an uplifting post - I feel a lot better now. Thanks a lot

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Wally
Well, we won but I’ve about had it and I’m tired of complaining. Watching this team is not much fun right now and listening to Bender is worse than listening to that idiot broadcaster of the Rockets and about on an even keel with those guys from Boston. I should feel a lot better than this when we win. Am I alone? Was this a great win or was the only thing good about it was the fact that we won.
On the other hand, it was great seeing Barbosa back in action and I'm looking forward to the return of Amare & Z.

I think any NBA game is going to have its dry spots, but overall I thought this was a good game to watch. Obviously I could have done without that miserable first quarter of course.

I really do think D'Antoni is a much better coach than Frank Johnson. Even though the defense has not been a strong point of the team under D'Antoni so far I like the philosophy much better. I also think the defense will be much better when Amare Stoudemire and to a lesser extent Cabarkapa return.

I really like the way they played Lewis tonight. He did score 27 points, but he shot 40%. It could have been much worse. The double-team was somewhat random. They did not do it every time down the floor. This defense is not predictable like it always was under Frank Johnson. This Seattle team would have killed FJ' is constantly scrambling defense tonight.

Joe Mama

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by Wally
It's great to read such an uplifting post - I feel a lot better now. Thanks a lot

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Joe Johnson nearly cost us the game in the 4th quarter. The kid is the human marshmallow. All soft and gooey inside.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I just got back from the game. Everyone played bad, except for Hardaway and Barbosa. I personally thought Barbosa should have been playing instead of Casey in the 4th, but whatever.

D'Antoni impressed me a lot with te out of bounds oop play. I never saw that one coming, and I don't think the Sonics did either. Out of bounds oop to a 6-7 guy being double teamed with 7 seconds left?

Gutsy play, but it worked out. FJ would have never done something like that.


Jake pissed me off a lot this game. He just made some stupid stupid plays, but then agian I guess most of the team did too.

Oh well, fun game to be at, and nice that we won one.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by elindholm
Let's see if we can shake up the luck a little bit:

Should be a lousy game to watch/listen to.

Suns better lose this game.

IT WORKED!!!

 

[cheng]

Originally posted by Joe Mama


I really do think D'Antoni is a much better coach than Frank Johnson. Even though the defense has not been a strong point of the team under D'Antoni so far I like the philosophy much better. I also think the defense will be much better when Amare Stoudemire and to a lesser extent Cabarkapa return.

Joe Mama

I like what D'Antoni has done so far. Our offense has been much much better as we scored over 90 pt in each of 4 games. I would really like to see what this team can do when Amare and Zarko are back and have everyone's role defined so the team will play more consistent.

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
I just got back from the game. Everyone played bad, except for Hardaway and Barbosa. I personally thought Barbosa should have been playing instead of Casey in the 4th, but whatever.

D'Antoni impressed me a lot with te out of bounds oop play. I never saw that one coming, and I don't think the Sonics did either. Out of bounds oop to a 6-7 guy being double teamed with 7 seconds left?

Gutsy play, but it worked out. FJ would have never done something like that.


Jake pissed me off a lot this game. He just made some stupid stupid plays, but then agian I guess most of the team did too.

Oh well, fun game to be at, and nice that we won one.

I agree with everyting except the "Fun" word.....But you did notice that it was Barbosa defending the inbound pass at the end.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Wally
I agree with everyting except the "Fun" word.....But you did notice that it was Barbosa defending the inbound pass at the end.

That's got to be because his arms are so exceedingly long. Tonight's game featured two players with ridiculously long arms in Barbosa and Calvin Booth.

Marbury did not shoot especially well (8-22), but I thought he had a pretty good overall game tonight. His defense was very good tonight, and I'm not just talking about all of this steals from his weak side help. He played a very nice defensive game overall.

That said, JJ, Shawn Marion, and Marbury were a combined 29.5% (18-61) from the field tonight.

I believe now and I believed after the game against Charlotte that if the Suns were going to be back to full strength within this week they would contend for one of the last playoff spots. It would be tough, but I do believe they could make a go of it. Unfortunately Amare Stoudemire and Zarko Cabarkapa will not be back for 4 more weeks, so it will take a miracle as dramatic as the parting of the Red Sea to get to the postseason.

Joe Mama

 

[jbeecham]

I really don't have much positive to say. I'm happy the Suns won, but I'm not very impressed. The Suns played poorly and somehow still found a way to win. Penny was the only guy that shot well, but his stupid turnovers still piss me off to no end. I know he's not the only one who turns the ball over, but his turnovers are worse than everyone else's because they are careless and lazy and they happen every game (which shouldn't happen because he's supposed to have this great bball IQ and he's a veteran).

Ok, here's one positive: I have been impressed with D'Antoni's plays coming out of timeouts.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

One other thing about D'Antoni......

I liek how he is experimenting with different lineups while we were loosing. It was obvious that the lineups weren't working, so instead of forcing it, he would evaluate a weakness, and adjust the lineup in order to compensate.

 

[George O'Brien]

Barbosa

I only caught the second quarter, but I was surprised that Barbosa had only 11 minutes for the game. He was a sparkplug in the push the Suns made in the first half to come back from the deep hole they were in.

I noticed that Barbosa was not really used as a point guard. Every time he come up the floor, he passed to Penny and that was the last Barbosa touched the ball in the half court set.

Barbosa is the only Sun that creates offense with his defense. He has got to get more minutes.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

He basically closed out the 3 quarters for the suns tonight to give Marbury a break. I personally thought he should have played the 4th and the full OT in place of CJ. I don't know what his steal count was, but it had to be huge for the amount of time he spent in there.

Sportsline gave him 3 steals in 11 minutes. However all those steals came in a 3 minute period. He also almost had a fourth when JJ dove on the ball and got a jump.


His arms are so freakishly long, and he is so ridiculously fast. Watching him play was by far the best part of my night at the game.

 

[PhiLLmattiC]

Originally posted by jbeecham
I really don't have much positive to say. I'm happy the Suns won, but I'm not very impressed. The Suns played poorly and somehow still found a way to win. Penny was the only guy that shot well, but his stupid turnovers still piss me off to no end. I know he's not the only one who turns the ball over, but his turnovers are worse than everyone else's because they are careless and lazy and they happen every game (which shouldn't happen because he's supposed to have this great bball IQ and he's a veteran).

Ok, here's one positive: I have been impressed with D'Antoni's plays coming out of timeouts.

Actually i'd say JJ driibling to the baseline picking up his dribble off balance and throwing it away which he does quite often are careless and lazy. JJ also turns it over on fast breaks. I think penny tries to thread the needle too much and thats when the defense picks it off. They may be telegraphed but I wouldn't define them as being lazy or even careless. Other than that he protects he ball very well especially averaging about 2 TOs a game or even less. Marbury's turnovers usually come when he's held the ball for too long in the half court set. CJ doesn't hold the ball enuff to turn it over but when he does it usually happens when he throws a bad pass because he's too anxious.

 

[Joe Mama]

I've been anti-Casey Jacobsen for the last couple seasons, but he has been playing some solid basketball lately. His defense, which once was his biggest weakness, has been good. I really like his energy because unlike some of the other Phoenix Suns players he's always giving 110% on every play. His physical limitations get him beat at times, but it's never for a lack of effort.

The Suns played fantastic defense in overtime. That was not a problem. What they needed was offense because none of the players on the floor could shoot worth crap last night. I wanted Hardaway in the game, but I'm not sure if I wanted him in for JJ or Jacobsen.

Last night's game illustrated something I've been saying about Shawn Marion for some time. Any more on many nights he is going to be a defensive liability at small forward. The small forward position is getting bigger and taller every season. As Cabarkapa gets better I believe he is going to need to start or placed orders minutes against many of these bigger lineups with Shawn Marion defending the shooting guard. It means his rebounding numbers will most likely go down, but his fast-break opportunities should increase.

I just not sure what to make of this Phoenix Suns team. I like many of the pieces. I don't like some of the others, and I'm not sure how they all fit together on any given night. Because many of the players are so consistently inconsistent their minutes and roles will probably change from night to night. At this point the only players with well-defined roles are Marbury and Amare Stoudemire. Either of them might be asked to play a different position for a few minutes, but in the end Amare is the power forward and Marbury is the point guard.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

Originally posted by PhiLLmattiC
Actually i'd say JJ driibling to the baseline picking up his dribble off balance and throwing it away which he does quite often are careless and lazy. JJ also turns it over on fast breaks. I think penny tries to thread the needle too much and thats when the defense picks it off. They may be telegraphed but I wouldn't define them as being lazy or even careless. Other than that he protects he ball very well especially averaging about 2 TOs a game or even less. Marbury's turnovers usually come when he's held the ball for too long in the half court set. CJ doesn't hold the ball enuff to turn it over but when he does it usually happens when he throws a bad pass because he's too anxious.

If those passes are threading the needle I don't know basketball anymore.

It is plain lazy crosscourt passes that he trows with no need for it. And he does it over and over and over again.

I am surprised that Penny still has so many supporters.
He plays with no fire, no focus. He simply looks like he doesn't care much about playing for the Suns, he is simply sitting out his contract in my opinion.

 

[Dr. Dumas]

My only problem with the game, was playing JJ in the 4th and OT. I say play JJ all the minutes you want in the first 3 quarters and put in Penny for the entire 4th. This team needs a sence of calmness in the 4th, which JJ does not provide.

Barbosa looked awesome- I'm hoping that this will help reduce Marb's minutes which will help him to be fresh in the 4th.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
If those passes are threading the needle I don't know basketball anymore.

It is plain lazy crosscourt passes that he trows with no need for it. And he does it over and over and over again.

I am surprised that Penny still has so many supporters.
He plays with no fire, no focus. He simply looks like he doesn't care much about playing for the Suns, he is simply sitting out his contract in my opinion.

Slin, you are going way overboard on Penny Hardaway. He is never going to be a defensive stopper again, but last night his defense was just find most of the time. Have you actually watched last night's game yet? If it wasn't for Hardaway last night the Suns would have been killed.

Hardaway's turnover at the beginning of the fourth quarter was banned because it led to an open court basket for Seattle. He just didn't get enough air under his pass. The ones that I always point out or the lazy, telegraphed passes at the top of the half-court. Those almost always lead to easy baskets. Still, those mistakes were not nearly enough to cancel out the positives last night.

Don't forget it was his spectacular pass that helped win the game for the Suns last night. Do you really think any other player on this team could have made that pass? I don't for a second.

Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

I think slinslin's point, with which I wholeheartedly agree, is that there is no need for Hardaway's "token" turnovers. Of course everyone will make mistakes, misunderstand where a teammate is, get in trouble on a surprise double-team, whatever. Hardaway is the only player on the team who consistently makes turnovers that violate the most fundamental, elementary-school-level rules of basketball. There is no good reason at all for those turnovers to keep occurring. If he could keep doing the good things and eliminate the inane turnovers, he'd be a lot more valuable.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
If he could keep doing the good things and eliminate the inane turnovers, he'd be a lot more valuable.

You mean BOTH turnovers per game? Yeah, I can see how his value goes up so much if he eliminates them...

 

[jbeecham]

If the Suns lost the game last night then I know I'd be bitching even more about Penny's stupid turnovers that lead to 4 easy fast break points for the Sonics in the 4th qtr when the Sonics were having trouble scoring. Luckily for the Suns, Rashard Lewis missed 2 ft's and then dribbled the ball off of his foot to give the Suns the chance to win.

Another thing, if Penny was dribbling the ball and the other team steals it or he gets double teamed and turns it over then that's ok because things like that happen. It's not so much that Penny is turning the ball over, it's in the way that he is doing it (and does it every game). Last night he was at the top left side of the key behind the 3pt line with Radmanovic guarding him. Penny should have drove around him and created an easy shot for himself or someone else. Instead he picked up his dribble and got stuck and tried to lob a pass over Radmanovic which was easily picked off for a fast break by Antonio Daniels (or another Sonic). His other turnover was a pass from the 3pt line on one side of the court to outside the 3pt line on the other side and he threw it chest high and hit a sonic player right in the numbers. It was like Joe Montana to Jerry Rice.

 

[Chaplin]

You guys are so eager to point out Penny's turnovers that lead to baskets for the opposite team. Are you saying that NONE of the turnovers by any other player turns into points? What was it, the Clipper game where the scored something like 25 points off of turnovers?

I'm just flabbergasted that the nitpicking has gone this far. Penny Hardaway isn't even in the top 5 of the problems of the Phoenix Suns this year. In fact, I would say that he is one of the top 5 GOOD things about the Suns so far--and no amount of whining about his 2 turnovers per game is going to change that, really.