Suns @ Thunder 11-12-18

[Hoop Head]

I hope JJ gets to get out of Igor's doghouse. Bridges, when he gets to play, is a positive force. Not sure why Igor can't see this. Hopefully, these guys do develop for us! We haven't been too good developing guys lately.

I want to know what Ariza has to do, or continue not doing, to get in Igor's doghouse. He and Canaan shouldn't be seeing more than 20 minutes a night. At least Canaan plays hard, I'll give him that. He doesn't play very good but if he were limited to 15-20 minutes a night then I think he would be more productive. If his shots falling and he's playing well then maybe leave him out there a little longer. Ariza doesn't look like he's trying though and it's been that way all season. He put more effort in during preseason. I don't think he's ran once this season. I've seen him jog a little bit but he's hasn't moved quick enough to elevate his heart rate all season.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And what will that prove? Ayton is a rookie, after playing a year of college ball out of position.

Embiid will be in a no-win situation.

uh... when he stomps on Ayton and leads the Sixers to a 20 point blowout, that will be a win-win situation. How the hell could it not be?

 

[sunsfan88]

The Suns will fit Booker in the Harden mold whether he likes it or not.

He plays like him on the defensive end of the court, but just not on the other end.

 

[sunsfan88]

i was thinking the same thing before tonight's game
their #1 problem is lack of aggression

what a great message it would be to start Holmes, Bridges and Jackson next game and say that it is a reward them for their hustle

Jackson's hustle is a moronic hustle and doesn't belong on the court. But yeah agreed on the other two.

It would take a huge pair of balls to do it but Kokoskov could certainly send a message by benching Ayton. It may work the same way it did with Jackson last year when Triano benched Jackson and he responded by playing much better the remainder of the season. If we want to reward players actually putting forth effort then the next starting lineup should be;

Okobo
Booker
Bridges
Warren
Holmes

 

[sunsfan88]

Also some encouraging words from Kokoskov.

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does this make Ayton an Ayton HATER!? According to a lot of people it should considering anyone who dare say the same was lambasted as a moron who has no clue about basketball.

Didn't he say something similar to this after the game against the Pelicans too? When does he start taking his own advice? He needs to show us not tell us.

 

[Hoop Head]

We go home to play the Spurs on the 14th and face the Thunder again on the 17th before going back out to play in Philadelphia on the 19th. I think the 76er's game is where you bench Ayton if you want to send a message because Embiid will do enough talking to make sure he doesn't miss the message.

Now that we're starting to see some teams for the 2nd time this season we should be seeing improvement but I have a feeling the only improvement will be from our opponents. Watch the Spurs shut Ayton down completely and destroy the Suns by 50. It could get really ugly. I know Pop has spoken highly about Igor but we'll see how much he actually respects him because they'll probably roll right over the Suns. It's a matter of when they'll pull their starters though. I hope he doesn't do it too early.

 

[sunsfan88]

It’s incredible that OKC did all this without their best player Westbrook and their best defensive player Roberson.

 

[sunsfan88]

Another way to put that is, who is the Suns' fourth best player, and what kind of minutes would he get on other teams in the league? The answers are probably Bridges, and, maybe he's a ninth man on a mediocre team trying to develop him.

Bridges might be the best 2 way player (both offense and defense) on the Suns by the end of the season.

 

[sunsfan88]

Are you the time traveler Art Bell used to have on? If so will the Suns win a Championship before I die?

Assuming everyone on this board is at least in their mid 20s, I think it’s highly unlikely that the Suns win a title during their lifetime.

Of course anything can happen but just my guess.

Making the playoffs would be like making it to the Finals for me. Winning a series would be the equivalent of a title at this point.

 

[sunsfan88]

The only Suns player worse than Ariza tonight was Booker. He has quit on the team.

Kokoskov needs to follow two simple principles:

1. Play the guys who play hard, no matter who they are.
2. Don't play Trevor Ariza ever.

Those two strategies would be enough to make the team 10-12 points better per game. It may not be enough to compete, but it would be a start.

Add Josh Jackson and Ryan Anderson to #2 as well.

 

[sunsfan88]

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Ayton is boxed out far too easily by a Thunder guard. Just unacceptable and pathetic effort by the #1 overall pick.

 

[Finito]

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Ayton is boxed out far too easily by a Thunder guard. Just unacceptable and pathetic effort by the #1 overall pick.

That right there is downright pathetic. He literally walked him back 10 feet and Ayton just went with it. Honestly I don't think I've ever seen that. That's just flat out no effort

 

[taz02]

uh... when he stomps on Ayton and leads the Sixers to a 20 point blowout, that will be a win-win situation. How the hell could it not be?

FYI, we now consider a 20 point loss a close game. It's not a blowout unless we lose by 30.

I was fast forwarding through the OKC game watching the score at the bottom. When I saw we were down by 14 in the 4th, I thought wow its a close game and started watching.

Igor has to be on the hot seat, every aspect of this team looks bad.

 

[95pro]

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Ayton is boxed out far too easily by a Thunder guard. Just unacceptable and pathetic effort by the #1 overall pick.

The nba is fierce. When the other guys sense weakness and fear their confidence rises and they can smell blood. Bench guys and the like are taking it to the suns, demeanor says a lot about the suns this year.

 

[1Sun]

We are seeing the negative effect the lack of a point guard and poor coaching are having on our future cornerstones. Can anyone honestly say that Booker, Jackson and now Ayton are not regressing horribly?

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

In the third quarter Igor had the lineup out there (sans Booker) that is the best one. Ayton, Bridges, Warren, and Okobo. Eventually he will run with this group (plus Booker) as the starters/main group.
They got after it and got it down to 10 with good defense and decent offense.

 

[Suns_fan69]

I was watching the game with company over so I wasn't fully locked in, but Jamal Crawford was the best point guard on the team. I'd give Canaan the Ryan Anderson treatment and have Crawford/Okobo run the point for 48 minutes.

I'm also done with Booker as PG. Having him handle the ball to attack is fine, but having him bring up the ball and run the offense so far has been a disaster. He's having to maneuver a set defense from mostly a standstill as opposed to attacking while receiving the ball on the move with the defense already bent with a few screens and cuts.

 

[Mainstreet]

Hey, I'm not giving up the lotto numbers. I'm buying the team and I'm getting my own foam finger.

I can live with this although the money would have been nice.

Just promise to read the Suns forum. LOL

 

[Mainstreet]

Enough with the words. Show us!

I think we are all there but there is enough blame to pass around. All the players need to come out of the gate aggressive.

 

[Mainstreet]

He plays like him on the defensive end of the court, but just not on the other end.

Booker still needs to get 100% healthy and his point guard duties lessened. Then he can better concentrate on his game.

 

[95pro]

I was watching the game with company over so I wasn't fully locked in, but Jamal Crawford was the best point guard on the team. I'd give Canaan the Ryan Anderson treatment and have Crawford/Okobo run the point for 48 minutes.

I'm also done with Booker as PG. Having him handle the ball to attack is fine, but having him bring up the ball and run the offense so far has been a disaster. He's having to maneuver a set defense from mostly a standstill as opposed to attacking while receiving the ball on the move with the defense already bent with a few screens and cuts.

Another problem when running their offense, is that booker walks it up, the defense is set already by the time he crosses half court. They're already keyed in on everyones position making it far too easy to defend the suns.

When Crawford was pg last night, he'd run and get into the offense a lot quicker than anyone ive seen on the suns this year.

Canaan can go as far as im concerned. His defense and "toughness" are overrated, he's a liability on both ends of the court now.

 

[Mainstreet]

Didn't he say something similar to this after the game against the Pelicans too? When does he start taking his own advice? He needs to show us not tell us.

If we are talking about Igor, the players need to implement the game plan. He wants the players to start the game aggressive.

After the Thunder game, Ayton says he will "start turning it up." We shall see.

 

[SactownSunsFan]

Yeah, it'd be nice to see Ayton give more effort and hustle. He's mostly just been going through the motions, and at this point in the season that's not acceptable. Holmes may not have half the talent, but he consistently hustles. Ayton should take notes.

 

[Mainstreet]

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Ayton is boxed out far too easily by a Thunder guard. Just unacceptable and pathetic effort by the #1 overall pick.

That right there is downright pathetic. He literally walked him back 10 feet and Ayton just went with it. Honestly I don't think I've ever seen that. That's just flat out no effort

I'm not defending Ayton but the Suns got two cracks at the basket. It looked like Ayton was more concerned about getting back on defense.

 

[Hoop Head]

I wonder if working with Holmes in practice has helped Ayton. Chandler was the backup C up until he was bought out recently so it would make sense that Chandler and Ayton paired off in practice, if Igor even runs practice. I can't imagine Chandler made life too difficult for Ayton though. If he's now needing to adjust to a player who is high energy and pushing him physically perhaps that's why he's been more vocal about improving. If he was shown up in practice or stopped by Tyson, he could say that's an 18 year vet who is a former champion and defensive player of the year. If the same happens against Holmes though, he's stopped by a guy who was given away by his last team and is playing on a minimum contract after being a 2nd round pick 3 years ago. Holmes went against Embiid in practice in Philly, you would think, so he's better suited to give Ayton trouble but we'll see if that helps him or not.