Suns Trade Half the team.

[Phrazbit]

Were we winning with Goran while Bledsoe was down? That team lead by Dragic last year was a far cry from your 30-35 win campaigns you claimed earlier.

They played .500 and fell out of the playoff slot, their record with Bledsoe was 28-15, without him 20-19.

If your argument is "who is the winner" then its Bledsoe in a landslide. The team led by Dragic the year before won 25 games, so really... I was rounding up.

 

[iLLmatiC]

You and I have nothing else to discuss if you think Goran was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team guy.

 

[iLLmatiC]

They played .500 and fell out of the playoff slot, their record with Bledsoe was 28-15, without him 20-19.

If your argument is "who is the winner" then its Bledsoe in a landslide. The team led by Dragic the year before won 25 games, so really... I was rounding up.

I'm arguing against your 30-35 win campaign crap you spewed a few posts ago. Goran lead a Bledsoeless team above .500.

 

[Phrazbit]

You and I have nothing else to discuss if you think Goran was the 2nd or 3rd best player on the team guy.

Fine.

Again, the stats say I'm being kind in that estimation. I do think he is better than his poor play this year, but his problems have more to do with his inability to create without a pick and roll partner than our PG setup. He played great last year with Bledsoe, but he had Frye too. Its the loss of Frye as a PnR partner thats killed him. He will have that with Bosh. But without someone like that to play off of Dragic is mediocre player.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm arguing against your 30-35 win campaign crap you spewed a few posts ago. Goran lead a Bledsoeless team above .500.

They went 20-19 without Bledsoe, offset by the 25-57 the year before.

So far there has been no indication that Dragic as "the guy" creates anything remotely close to a playoff team.

 

[slinslin]

I am a little sad for Isaiah.

He and his fiance just bought their first home in Phoenix and based on everything you hear the players generally liked Isaiah and loved him in the locker room too unlike what fans from the outside what to project on IT.

And I can't really blame IT. He just went out there and competed and played well and did what he was asked to do.

Overall it was still the right move because IT is such a competitor and would have continued to push Bledsoe causing friction most likely in the long run.

 

[chickenhead]

I suppose applying Occam's Razor would explain this as simply the extension of giving Bledsoe the max before extending Dragic. Talk at the moment was that IT was insurance for Bledsoe; once Bledsoe was signed he was insurance for Dragic. Now it's Knight who replaces both. But the fact is simply that Bledsoe was made the priority.

I thought the idea of a 3PG system was fun, and of course didn't know that it would work. Maybe the FO was using it as an experiment while accruing assets: perhaps PGs were the quantity they were most comfortable evaluating and dealing. Hopefully now they see Bledsoe/Knight as the young complement they want, while reserving the cap space for other positions moving forward.

That's the positive way to look at it anyway. But the roster is young, and they do have cap room. Plus there was a net reduction in primary guards

 

[CardsFan88]

8th seed / 9th spot – whatever, we had a decent team that was there to be built on. Bledsoe and Dragic in the back court, Alex Len in the front court – they’re not assumptions. Picking up Stoudemire is reaching a bit but he did get bought out and he did go to a 6th seed moderate-only contender in Dallas. That easily could have been us – assuming we kept the team structure as it was last year and brought in anyone other than IT.

That's a big whatever. You were just saying we should make wholesale future decisions based on that we should of made the playoffs. There's really only about 6 spots that matter in the playoffs between both conferences, the rest is filler with pretty much no shot. They ARE assumptions.

We could not stand pat, Dragic was gone. We brought IT in because we might lose Bledsoe, and perhaps even Dragic. It was not the crazy move people thought. Dragic went crazy with me first, when he realized that Sarver's promises, weren't McD's promises. To be honest, I think we are BETTER then we were last year. At times we've been flat out dominant. It's just the players weren't team players. Who were we going to bring in? That's the point. We DID bring in the best player we could and got a 1st round pick out of it. Again you are assuming we'd be magically better. We have more talent this year and took a step back, despite even getting better. The West got better then we got. Again, you keep looking back... if we didn't get Thomas... but we did. There were valid reasons for it. We even got a 1st round back. What you should be pissed off at, isn't McD, but Dragic for acting like a bum about it. I still love Dragic, but he headjobbed himself, and that's the breakdown point of everything. Not McD, but Dragic's me-first head. His agent got in his head, that this was his time, and he bought it.

1. Dragic isn’t old and hasn’t got the burn of most guys his age. He’s had two and a bit seasons only of playing heavy minutes, and they aren’t even that heavy – 34per game mins is relatively small.
2. If Dragic is any good as a play maker he’ll adjust his game as he gets older – we won’t know until he gets there if he’s capable of it, my guess is that he will. Slin kindly pointed out that he should have adjusted this season, but how? He’s a playmaker that needs ball in hand which he wasn’t getting.
3. $20m is a stretch and I wouldn’t want to pay that but, as I’ve pointed out before $20m for Dragic plus $14m for Bledsoe – against a suggested cap in two years’ time of $90m and the % of the salary cap that this would take up is 38%. That’s not debilitating assuming no injuries.

As I said, he isn't old, but Dragic without the minutes has lots of nicks on him, and his style of play makes him always banged up or with a twisted ankle. That's going to wear on him as he gets older. So yes, he has more wear then his playing time suggests because of his style of play. In fact, Dragic is due for another ankle turn.

But again you missed my point. If one guy is ascending (Knight) and the other guy isn't (Dragic) and they are about the same right now, who has the likely better future? Knight by a mile.

We don't know what the cap will be. 90 million might be it, it might not be. Maybe it's 70 or 75 or 80. Either way, you want capspace, if you can get it. Right now you are assuming it will be 90. But that's not the case here. We have the option to try out Knight or trade him, that would give us more cap space, but remember we were likely going to pay Dragic what he wanted, so we were prepared to do it. You again are jumbling things up. We can think of Knight/Dragic as interchangeable. Maybe we keep or let go of that chunk of cap space. But what these moves did, was remove IT's contract, and removes the sign or lose that was coming up on Plumlee. So we got rid of THAT 6 million or so of IT, and aren't pressured to give Plumlee a big raise or lose him.

You make it sound like RMcD has a grand plan with ‘roster churn’ and ‘asset allocation’ – he ruined the roster in the off season so his track record so far is not good. His make up play is pretty good however so let’s hope he’s learned the lessons. But I just can’t justify destroying chemistry like that; every ball club wants it but can’t get it, we had it and threw it away like a piece of trash. Damn.

Again you are assuming. It's not a grand plan, it's just a simple and sane realization that if you aren't good, you don't max out your cap. You keep your flexibility. Why go over the cap when you still don't have a star?

Was McD supposed to sit and let us again be a non-playoff team or at the very most a 8th seed who get bounced? Chemistry of a non-playoff team is not that important. I'm sorry, but McD had to keep trying to improve his roster, it's his job. Standing pat when you still suck, isn't a plan. You don't stop improving a decent but still crappy team because of chemistry, and these players are supposed to be professionals not head cases. It sucks that me-first players ruined the chemistry, but McD didn't ruin the chemistry, the players did. McD added a player, so without his move, it might not have happened as much, but, these guys are paid millions in a professional game, and THEY failed much more then McD. Also all the problems weren't just IT and Dragic. We forget that Plumlee was also reportedly not happy. Not because of IT, but because of the ascension of Len. So the chemistry problems were coming from multiple fronts. Most of it can be boiled down to players pissed off when they shouldn't of been. You could understand frustration, but not acting out like they did.

So you’d rather be where we are now, with god knows what sort of team on our hands, than fighting for a competitive spot in the playoffs, with a team that plays well together, is greater than the sum of its parts, has sentimental Stoudemire on board, all the while not pi$$ing off the fan base through another year of missing out and potentially being attractive to free agents? C’mon. The only thing this scenario depended on was a competent FO.

No, I just realize we weren't ANYWHERE with them, and we aren't ANYWHERE without them. You think we lost something, I KNOW we didn't. 8th spot in the playoffs is not a competitive spot. We had a competitive fun team, that if we lose, will be what I miss most. But Knight reminds me of Joe Johnson a bit, and that would fit better then Dragic on the philosophy that our GM wants. But again you are assuming that without IT, we would be right where we are. Without IT we probably have fewer wins then we had now.

Stoudamire was not coming here. He left to win a championship. That excludes us.

I'm not pissed off about the situation. You think you have the right to be pissed off. Well you do. But your viewpoint depends on how you are viewing things, because I'm not pissed off, and I loved Dragic from Day 1, unlike many here on this board. I saw him becoming what he became. I wish he could of stayed. But through the fault of our GM...ACTING LIKE A GM... Dragic went crazy and forced himself out. Is our GM supposed to be on pins and needles and not make moves that make us better because someone on the roster might not like it? You literally want the henhouse to run the GM spot? Of course not, but that is what you are saying. That the players wishes and desires are above the direction that management want to take the team. That will not result in a championship, because the players will tend to be loyal to themselves first, and we had a non-playoff team.

Our FO IS competent. They've made many great trades. They've picked up a bunch of picks. They got blindsided by Dragic and did what they did.

You must not remember the times when we would of given up 2 first round picks to get rid of IT. Instead we got one. We didn't unload Dragic for nothing, we got two first round picks. Then he also orchestrated a three team deal to bring in Knight. That's not competent, that's a stunning display of balls and the ability make stuff happen. He is a real GM with a real bright future. He was the monkey in the middle and ended up with Knight, Granger, Thorton, and 3 first round picks. I've NEVER seen a GM in any sport pull that off. Be burned like he was and pull that off. That is competence.

Again, being Phx, with our weather, and nightclubs (which trust me when I say they ALL party big time. Nash, Marion, Dragic, various Cardinals and D-Backs players...they LOVE it here). We are always a destination for FA's. The only thing that can screw that up is $arver or selfish players talking. Well $arver took a step back a couple of years ago, and I'll give him credit (for once in my lifetime) that he didn't step in and screw all this up. Oh yeah, you remember that part about GM competence, remember that McD pulled this all off while $arver was balking at making trades. So that's even more competence.

What hurt us again, we go back to it, was Dragic acting a fool. But that won't last very long. We still will be a destination. But remember, that great destination we were, didn't get us Lebron. So last year when we had good chemistry, it wasn't good enough to sway. So let's no oversell it or undersell it. Let's just say we have it, but it's not everything. We may have lost some because of DRAGIC, but not a ton and we'll be fine.

That’s too broad a discussion – we gave away a first rounder that could come back to bite us. Deng and Rondo hurt. Great track record we’ve got there.

Yes we did lose the Lakers pick. It's top protected for the next two or three years. I've heard two, but last night I read an article (which could be wrong) that stated three years. But you need to remember we gained three picks back....one with limited protection, that could eventually turn unprotected, and another pick that is even BETTER then the Lakers pick, because it is completely unprotected. If Miami gets the #1 pick that year, we get it. So actually pick wise, from where we stand today, we have BETTER picks in our stable then we had yesterday morning. Now again, maybe the Lakers pick turns out great and a few years from now Miami's doesn't. Or maybe it's the other way around. You don't like that uncertainty. I can understand that. But at the same time we got two additional picks, and they maybe better. Again, like I've said before, it's also possible we trade Knight for a better pick then that Lakers pick, and we might even get to select it before that Lakers pick gets conveyed. You are assuming again that the Lakers pick is going to be great, and either of Miami's isn't.

That's not fair, it really isn't. Track record doesn't mean squat. Every flip of the coin is unique. There is no trend or all seeing eye that conforms stuff to certain rules. Each event is it's own unique universe unto itself. Track record means absolutely zero. You are just assuming again.

You’re painting everything in a positive light – fact; incompetent management forced us into the market where we’ve turned good assets into questionable potential while setting us back at least a year. Maybe longer – I won’t be convinced that 6th seed was out of our reach had we built, not destroyed, from last year..

No, I'm not painting everything in a positive light. I said we might lose out, depending on the situation of the pick. I said I didn't want to lose Dragic, but I also pointed out a lot of positive realities, because they are positive, and they are realities.

I also pointed out that we weren't a good team. We were a decent, fun to watch team, but that didn't mean we were good. That's not positive.

Your assumptions are not facts, our FO is not incompetent, you keep assuming we were something. Our team wasn't something. We were not set back a year, we were a non-playoff team, and there was no guarantee of anything, but you seem to think so, and that it meant something, and that it would snowball people would come here that didn't. You don't have facts, yo have assumptions, and you are building each assumption on top of assumption. That's shaky foundation of logic. It's not fact. I'm not trying to burst your bubble, and I love your enthusiasm for our team, but it's just not reality.

Speculation


RMcD trashed team chemistry with boneheaded acquisitions and draft picks so this team got what it deserved. Good makeup play from him but again, treating good chemistry like that is reckless IMO and I’m pretty sure we’ll see nothing like it again in a hurry. And who do I thank for the chemistry in the first place? Dragic, our best player and playmaker, and he’s gone.

Deserved? So you are saying it's ok for million dollar athletes, playing in a professional sports league, to be act like a petulant child, because the GM is doing his job, trying to make a non-playoff team, into a playoff team? Again, that's fantasy and not competent management. You don't coddle the players on a non-playoff team.

It’s a decent make up play; Mismanagement is what got us there in the first place. RMcD’s trading ability; Good – player selection; Bad.

Again, we weren't a good team, we weren't going to be a good team, the GM and management and ownership are there to make the team better, the problem is, the players didn't like it. Again, was our GM supposed to not do his job and keep the status quo? We needed to keep doing deals, the fact that it blew up in his face does not mean we shouldn't of made moves. Our player selection has been pretty good. IT for all his warts, we got a 1st round pick for. So he turned cap space into a 1st round pick. That's good player selection. I can't remember if he brought in Plumlee, but he sure knew he wasn't in our future and used him to help get Knight. That ennis pick everyone hated but me, that was another piece. Good selection. Toronto also thought so after we drafted him as well. Wright? Well that was a good pickup. The ONLY problem, again, is that some of our players acted like petulant children and you are putting all of that on McD, and not the players themselves. You are responsible for your own behavior. Same thing applies to NBA players. It's not McD's fault. That's reality.

They didn’t wrong Dragic personally, they wronged the team and the fans by taking him off the ball. That it was taken personally by Dragic is totally understandable. Coro said it on the podcast that the FO thought Dragic would complain the least with a different role – what a strange way to deal with your best player and playmaker.
About his late trade demand – this probably should have been done earlier. But I’d like to know why he did this as he’s been nothing but a team player his whole career. With the management incompetence we’ve seen to date, it wouldn’t surprise me to hear that it was a function of circumstance but I’m holding judgement until I know more.
And at least we got something for him - he would have walked for nothing in the offseason with the way things were going.

You're not exactly holding judgment. You sort of have blamed it all on McD, and even said he deserved what he got. Maybe you're withholding FINAL judgment, but for the here and now you are judging him pretty hard. But not completely hard, since you have given him some props for handling the situation. Anyways...

They took him off the ball because of what they had, they felt he was best suited to contribute without the ball. He did, and did pretty well at it. So they DID make the right call. If they would of tried to use Bledsoe or IT in that role, we would of had Dragic as our PG, but have a dropoff at SG. The Suns had their best player for SG at SG, his name was Goran Dragic.

It's not understandable for him to act out like that. It's understandable for him to be frustrated. It's NEVER understandable for him to act like a petulant little child. Notice the difference, because that's reality. But we live in a degrading society which is starting to forget this fact. This is not how to act, nor is it legitimate. I can feel for his frustrations, but I'm 100 percent right, he acted like a fool and is the catalyst for this all, because he decided to act like a fool.

I have a good guess as to WHY he felt that the front office can't be trusted. Robert $arver. $arver promised him the moon. But that was under a different GM. McD obviously didn't share the same vision. McD's vision had Dragic in it, but not in quite the same way. Dragic also freaked out about IT and Ennis. So what, both of them are gone. Maybe Dragic should of waited and been patient. Whoops.

You see Dragic is the one acting like he is crazy, and McD is still the one who has been cool, calm, and collected.

I’m not assuming anything other than a competent front office that wouldn’t dream of killing what Coro called some of the best chemistry ever seen. But they did, and that’s why we’re only looking at 9th or 10th. To iron out your confused understanding of my perfectly reasonable logic:
If management had just kept the structure how it was with Dragic and Bledsoe from last year, not gone and ass rammed the roster, worked Len into the rotation and picked up a player in the mid-season trade period like a Stoudemire, then 6th seed would be an entirely realistic aim. The only assumption made is a competent FO.

You are assuming alot, as I've pointed out time after time after time. It's all good though.


I'm not confused at all, but again you are getting assumptions and logic twisted up. Working Len in was part of the problem with chemistry with Plumlee. Who would we have given up in trades? Dragic STILL might have wanted out. There is some scuttlebutt that his wife wants to make it 'big' like most idiot foreigners when they get here. Then they wake up and realize the USA isn't heaven, but a real place, with problems like anywhere.

Stoudamire would not of come here. He wants a championship. 6th seed isn't good, it isn't. It's crap. You have almost no chance to win a championship from the 6th seed. So your logic is flawed. You would have us coddle players, have our GM fear making moves on a non-playoff team (is he now going to not get a front court player because he fears he might upset Markieff? THIS IS YOUR LOGIC, it isn't good or valid), believe way too strongly that players who want championships are going to go to a team that hasn't made the playoffs..but might get a low seed, that we would make other trades (that don't piss someone else off?), and leave capspace dormant and not pick up assets that we can use or later trade.

See Coro and his comments about the depth of our chemistry. That was special. And had we built from last year, it’s unlikely Dragic would have walked at all.

I remember reading stuff last year, but also remember, that lots of that is fluff. It's assumptions and good times and all that. So, it's white propaganda. Again we don't know if he would of stayed or go. Even if he stayed, we weren't a good team. Again Chemistry on a non-playoff team, is still not as precious as you think it is. Having chemistry is nice. But chemistry on a non-playoff team doesn't mean much, because in the end, you are a non-playoff team.

We had a good team at least a year ahead of schedule now we don’t know what team we’ve got and we’re behind schedule. I acknowledge we did the best thing considering the situation but we shouldn’t have been here in the first place.

We had a decent team. It wasn't good enough to make the playoffs, and even if it did, it wasn't going anywhere. There is no schedule, that's just a saying that doesn't really mean anything. How are we supposed to be good on schedule if we don't make moves? Or are afraid of making moves because it might upset someone?

We did make the best of the situation, we agree there, that's good. But again our GM or any GM can't do their job if they are afraid that any single move is going to upset someone on the team. Of course they are. Every move you bring someone in, is going to push someone else out. EVERY TIME. That's not an excuse to blame McD, it's a reason you have to ask, why did Dragic think he should act like a child? Why are you defending his blatant childish petulance. Plumlee was unhappy about being passed by Len, but he didn't go all Dragic on us.

Conclusion:

Embarrassing mismanagement got us into a mess and it’s cost us a reputation hit and our best play maker. There are huge questions being asked about FO’s ability to deliver for this club however RMcD’s trading ability, clearly a competitive advantage, is evidence that we have some hope and he’s surely learned his lesson on the IT trade. Our roster as it stands is intriguing in that all starters are of a similar, young, age but I find it hard to believe we haven’t been set back by these events. The next few months will give us an idea about what we’ve got and what we lost in Dragic. Who knows, maybe this will prove to be a good thing for the club avoiding a potential $20m salary on an ageing player. But that's what Dallas said about Nash. As always, I'm looking forward to what happens next.

It was not mismanagement, and it wasn't embarrassing. The guy is doing his job and this could of happened to any other GM.

Did he force too much talent at one position, yes, but he really had no other options other then to do nothing, which wasn't a valid option for ANY GM. He had to do something, and it isn't his fault a well payed, professional, acted like a six year old and threw the team under the bus, most likely because McD wasn't playing by $arver's promises to Dragic years ago. It's not the job of the GM to coddle each player when they make moves. Every move to bring someone in means someone else moves down and/or out. Our GM can't paralyze and stop doing what GM's do because someone might get upset because they are the ones who got shafted, or asked to play another position, for which Goran was actually pretty good at it.

You're right, every move can backfire. Dragic may have some nice years, MVP, not likely, but as you can see, he just lost Bosh, so this year and maybe in the future as well, Miami's not going to be as good as he desires. Wade is on his last legs. Either way, we got assets, and we need to see what they become by being drafted or are traded into. Finally, lets not forget Nash was a FA who Dallas let leave. Dragic is a player we TRADED, because he threw us under the bus. Completely different situation.

We both love the Suns, and I can understand all your anger and frustration, and I agree that it wasn't wise to load up that much talent in one position, and ask one of them, whoever was most capable (which turned out to be Dragic...because remember we tried them all at SG) at SG, but there wasn't another valid choice. You don't stand pat when you don't make the playoffs. If you have assets or potential assets you secure, you secure it. Because in the long run, this team, by the GM, doing his job, would be better, and the guys who are patient, buy in, and become part of that plan, benefit. Dragic's head prevented him from doing that, and if we want an example of what Dragic could of done, one need only look at Larry Fitzgerald. That's how Dragic should of been, and the Cardinals rewarded Ftiz. Fitz gets to stay on the Cardinals now that they are a good team. Dragic didn't have the patience. Didn't have the fortitude. He headjobbed himself, and that's ALL on him. Whatever is in any of our heads, is in our heads, and is thus confined to US. If we act out, it's on US. Not someone else.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I think most of you are missing the point of the complainers. Fans LIKE[D] Dragic, for what he brought to the team. The loyalty, the tough-nosed play, the feistiness, beating the SA Spurs, etc. It was not necessarily all about skills, stats, etc. Sports is entertainment, first and foremost, and Dragic brought that for most fans. Fans saw him working with the team during the summers. Saw his honesty with the media. Got behind him as a young foreigner and pulled for him to make it, and he did. Saw the HORRIBLE trade with Houston, and then saw the return of "their guy". Saw his good-to-great season last year. Fans were ok with Bledsoe - seemed to be playing well when he actually did play. But Goran always played. And the Suns were a surprise and fans were excited. They saw the summer and Eric not being around the team. Dragging his feet with negotiations, thinking he was worth a max contract when he had barely played a ful season of games. But mostly, not saying he wanted to be in Phoenix, not being with the team and teammates. When this season started, saw Eric dogging it in plenty of games, like he didn't care or really didn't want to be here. It was commented on plenty of times here and on other boards that I frequent.

Is it really that hard to see why many fans prefer[red] Dragic over Bledsoe? Stats mean nothing when watching the games, when rooting for the team. So for you guys who keep shouting stats - it doesn't mean anything. You are like the critics who hate the summer blockbuster movie, while most of the population couldn't care less. They like the product.

Bledsoe has some tough shoes to fill and I kind of feel a little for him. The "entertainment" fans see him as the reason Dragic left. I sure hope he is ready to be the face of the team. Because like it or not, Dragic was the face of the Suns...

 

[BC867]

Why are you still here? BC, I am really tired of these posts. Nothing but complaining always.

Really. Do you have anything positive to say-----ever?

The personal nature of your post doesn't deserve an answer, but I will anyway.

Because I have given my heart to the Suns for four decades (and I turn 74 in a few days), I would like to see them take the next step into NBA prominence.

Our one backup C/PF weighs 210 pounds. Are we supposed to be happy with that? The Suns are regressing. Their recent moves (affecting 1/3 of the roster) are undoing their previous moves. I find little good to post from the direction in which they are going.

Do you think I am the only one who feels that way?

 

[slinslin]

The personal nature of your post doesn't deserve an answer, but I will anyway.

Because I have given my heart to the Suns for four decades (and I turn 74 in a few days), I would like to see them take the next step into NBA prominence.

Our one backup C/PF weighs 210 pounds. Are we supposed to be happy with that? The Suns are regressing. I find little good to post from the direction in which they are going.

Do you think I am the only one who feels that way?

You are such a comedian.

A couple weeks ago you called Plumlee basically useless.

No you complain about Wright being the backup center, classic.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think most of you are missing the point of the complainers. Fans LIKE[D] Dragic, for what he brought to the team. The loyalty, the tough-nosed play, the feistiness, beating the SA Spurs, etc. It was not necessarily all about skills, stats, etc. Sports is entertainment, first and foremost, and Dragic brought that for most fans. Fans saw him working with the team during the summers. Saw his honesty with the media. Got behind him as a young foreigner and pulled for him to make it, and he did. Saw the HORRIBLE trade with Houston, and then saw the return of "their guy". Saw his good-to-great season last year. Fans were ok with Bledsoe - seemed to be playing well when he actually did play. But Goran always played. And the Suns were a surprise and fans were excited. They saw the summer and Eric not being around the team. Dragging his feet with negotiations, thinking he was worth a max contract when he had barely played a ful season of games. But mostly, not saying he wanted to be in Phoenix, not being with the team and teammates. When this season started, saw Eric dogging it in plenty of games, like he didn't care or really didn't want to be here. It was commented on plenty of times here and on other boards that I frequent.

Is it really that hard to see why many fans prefer[red] Dragic over Bledsoe? Stats mean nothing when watching the games, when rooting for the team. So for you guys who keep shouting stats - it doesn't mean anything. You are like the critics who hate the summer blockbuster movie, while most of the population couldn't care less. They like the product.

Bledsoe has some tough shoes to fill and I kind of feel a little for him. The "entertainment" fans see him as the reason Dragic left. I sure hope he is ready to be the face of the team. Because like it or not, Dragic was the face of the Suns...

Well said.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think most of you are missing the point of the complainers. Fans LIKE[D] Dragic, for what he brought to the team. The loyalty, the tough-nosed play, the feistiness, beating the SA Spurs, etc. It was not necessarily all about skills, stats, etc. Sports is entertainment, first and foremost, and Dragic brought that for most fans. Fans saw him working with the team during the summers. Saw his honesty with the media. Got behind him as a young foreigner and pulled for him to make it, and he did. Saw the HORRIBLE trade with Houston, and then saw the return of "their guy". Saw his good-to-great season last year. Fans were ok with Bledsoe - seemed to be playing well when he actually did play. But Goran always played. And the Suns were a surprise and fans were excited. They saw the summer and Eric not being around the team. Dragging his feet with negotiations, thinking he was worth a max contract when he had barely played a ful season of games. But mostly, not saying he wanted to be in Phoenix, not being with the team and teammates. When this season started, saw Eric dogging it in plenty of games, like he didn't care or really didn't want to be here. It was commented on plenty of times here and on other boards that I frequent.

Is it really that hard to see why many fans prefer[red] Dragic over Bledsoe? Stats mean nothing when watching the games, when rooting for the team. So for you guys who keep shouting stats - it doesn't mean anything. You are like the critics who hate the summer blockbuster movie, while most of the population couldn't care less. They like the product.

Bledsoe has some tough shoes to fill and I kind of feel a little for him. The "entertainment" fans see him as the reason Dragic left. I sure hope he is ready to be the face of the team. Because like it or not, Dragic was the face of the Suns...

sad reality is that when the face of your team is a guy who's never led the team anywhere and is probably best suited as a 3rd option on a title contender, it's time to get a new face.

 

[sunsfan88]

I am a little sad for Isaiah.

He and his fiance just bought their first home in Phoenix and based on everything you hear the players generally liked Isaiah and loved him in the locker room too unlike what fans from the outside what to project on IT.

And I can't really blame IT. He just went out there and competed and played well and did what he was asked to do.

Overall it was still the right move because IT is such a competitor and would have continued to push Bledsoe causing friction most likely in the long run.

I don't think IT is going into that bad of a situation, he already has a close relationship with his new backcourt teammate

http://www.celticsblog.com/2013/1/3...ased-brotherhood-for-bradley-thomas-and-terry

 

[BC867]

You are such a comedian.

A couple weeks ago you called Plumlee basically useless.

No you complain about Wright being the backup center, classic.

If I am comedy, you are tragedy.

Just about everyone on this board complained about Plumlee becoming useless.

What does that have to do with Wright's slight stature?

I just saw that we are bringing back Earl Barron for a 10-day contract. I don't think that is going to change Markieff closing games at Center, even after Len comes back.

Are you really pleased with that?

 

[Mainstreet]

If I am comedy, you are tragedy.

Just about everyone on this board complained about Plumlee becoming useless.

What does that have to do with Wright's slight stature?

I just saw that we are bringing back Earl Barron for a 10-day contract. I don't think that is going to change Markieff closing games at Center, even after Len comes back.

Are you really pleased with that?

The trade deadline is past BC. The Suns need to get bigger but it won't happen this season.

 

[sunsfan88]

Here's a video of the Suns players being informed that they were traded and then them getting off the bus

http://www.azcentral.com/videos/sports/nba/suns/2015/02/19/23701589/

IT looks the happiest out of all the players when found out about the trade.

Video is kinda depressing to watch though.

 

[3rdside]

You were just saying we should make wholesale future decisions based on that we should of made the playoffs.
It's your opening statement and I just can’t understand what you mean.

There's really only about 6 spots that matter in the playoffs between both conferences, the rest is filler with pretty much no shot.
Right, so if you're not top 3 in either conference you just blow it up.

They ARE assumptions.
What, other than better roster moves in the offseason, have I assumed?


We brought IT in because we might lose Bledsoe, and perhaps even Dragic. It was not the crazy move people thought.
Hindsight says it definitely was – look what happened last week.


To be honest, I think we are BETTER then we were last year.
So says our W/L record, number of tech’s and team chemistry?


It's just the players weren't team players.
Right, players fault. Nothing to do with RMcD.


Again you are assuming we'd be magically better.
I’m assuming only that we wouldn’t be worse. Losing Frye was a big deal though so perhaps we would have been but, with Len, a better Markieff and a full season of Bledsoe alongside him I don't think it's crazy to think otherwise (depending on how important Frye was to Dragic's performance of course).

What you should be pissed off at, isn't McD, but Dragic for acting like a bum.
Please tell me you can see why Dragic did what he did?

McD had to keep trying to improve his roster, it's his job.
Didn’t he slam dunk that one in the offseason.

Standing pat when you still suck, isn't a plan.
What part of we didn’t suck last year isn’t comprehendible?

It sucks that me-first players ruined the chemistry, but McD didn't ruin the chemistry, the players did.
I could pretty much end the discussion right there.

Stoudamire was not coming here. He left to win a championship. That excludes us.
And this is where I see that you’re confused – you’ve clearly not understood under what assumption (the one and only assumption I have made in all of this) I said he might have come here.

I'm not pissed off about the situation. You think you have the right to be pissed off. Well you do.
I’m actually pretty neutral about the whole thing as Dragic has gone to a good situation and will thrive when Bosh plays, I was slightly nervous about paying him big $ (but if he'd had this season to play without IT, with Bledsoe, an improved Markieff and Len...) and we can finally see Warren and Goodwin play. Of course, we could have had kept Dragic and seen the rookies play but that was beyond the ability of the FO apparently.

Our FO IS competent.
Not according to the drama that’s unfolded. I agree with you that they can play the market well.

That's not competent, that's a stunning display of balls and the ability make stuff happen.
Here we go again – the genius of RMcD. Let’s just ignore how we got to this situation in the first place.



If Miami gets the #1 pick that year, we get it.
You say this in defence of trading away the pick…

You are assuming again that the Lakers pick is going to be great.
Then you say this.

You are just assuming again.
I don’t think I am, but if I was pot meet kettle.


Your assumptions are not facts
Thankfully you're correct

You keep assuming we were something.
No – we actually were a good team last year.


Our team wasn't something.
It had some of the best Chemistry ever seen – that is indeed something.

We were not set back a year.
Have you seen the age of our starting five? We are in full rebuild mode again.

You don't have facts, you have assumptions
Did we or did we not win 48 games last year with excellent team chemistry lead by a 3rd team all NBA player who's backcourt partner was injured for half the season?

I love your enthusiasm for our team
It’s morbid curiosity right now – I loved it positively last year.

Our player selection has been pretty good.
IT? Really?

You're not exactly holding judgment. You sort of have blamed it all on McD.
I really haven’t but I won’t back down from saying it starts with him.

Stoudamire would not of come here. He wants a championship. 6th seed isn't good, it isn't.
Tell that to Dallas, who have Stoudemire.


Chemistry is white propaganda.
Wtf does this mean?

But chemistry on a non-playoff team doesn't mean much, because in the end, you are a non-playoff team.
Wtf. So you may as well have sh!tty chemistry because that will help you improve as a team.


There is no schedule
Not officially, no, but beginning of last year we were at square one and guess where we are today.

Every move you bring someone in, is going to push someone else out. EVERY TIME. That's not an excuse to blame McD.
Acquiring a point guard and drafting a point guard when you already have two point guards is perfectly good reason to blame RMcD.

Plumlee was unhappy about being passed by Len, but he didn't go all Dragic on us.
You think that’s a fair analogy?

And it wasn't embarrassing.
Yes it is – very. Our franchise does not come out of this in a positive light.

The guy is doing his job and this could of happened to any other GM.
Let me know which other GM’s offsided their best player by getting 2 others to do his job and then relegate their said best player because it was assumed he would complain the least. That is management incompetence defined.

Did he force too much talent at one position, yes., but he really had no other options other then to do nothing, which wasn't a valid option for ANY GM.
I dare say hindsight suggests otherwise.

 

[SirStefan32]

Here's a video of the Suns players being informed that they were traded and then them getting off the bus

http://www.azcentral.com/videos/sports/nba/suns/2015/02/19/23701589/

IT looks the happiest out of all the players when found out about the trade.

Video is kinda depressing to watch though.

Damn, that IS depressing. Yesterday I was just happy for Dragic. Today, the reality that of the Suns chasing an All-NBA player out of town is setting in.

Oh well, Bledsoe/McD era will be over sooner or later.

 

[Sci Fi]

Here's a video of the Suns players being informed that they were traded and then them getting off the bus

http://www.azcentral.com/videos/sports/nba/suns/2015/02/19/23701589/

IT looks the happiest out of all the players when found out about the trade.

Video is kinda depressing to watch though.

Yeh, IT was happy but Dragic was ecstatic. And he should be.

I just watched the Heat closely tonight and they actually pass the ball.

 

[SirStefan32]

Yeh, IT was happy but Dragic was ecstatic. And he should be.

I just watched the Heat closely tonight and they actually pass the ball.

I hope Bosh is OK and McRoberts as well. Goran is going to have a lot of fun in Miami. I'll be adding them to my list of teams to watch, and moving them to the top of the list. Dragic will be 23 and 10 player in Miami once he gets used to the new team.

 

[Sci Fi]

Damn, that IS depressing. Yesterday I was just happy for Dragic. Today, the reality that of the Suns chasing an All-NBA player out of town is setting in.

Oh well, Bledsoe/McD era will be over sooner or later.

Save yourself the trouble of waiting and watch another team. Big universe. I choose teams based on how they play. I loved the Suns for so many years because of their style. Those days are over. Mindless pounding the rock isn't for me. Plus, you wouldn't have to stay up all night to watch!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I hope Bosh is OK and McRoberts as well. Goran is going to have a lot of fun in Miami. I'll be adding them to my list of teams to watch, and moving them to the top of the list. Dragic will be 23 and 10 player in Miami once he gets used to the new team.

23 and 10? Okay... I take back my earlier taken back statement. You do ridiculously overrate Dragic.

 

[SirStefan32]

Save yourself the trouble of waiting and watch another team. Big universe. I choose teams based on how they play. I loved the Suns for so many years because of their style. Those days are over. Mindless pounding the rock isn't for me. Plus, you wouldn't have to stay up all night to watch!

Yeah, but it's like watching a train wreck. You can't help but look. I was already watching other teams more than the Suns- Chicago, Atlanta, GSW, and Miami and OKC will be going to the top of the list now, but I can't just not like my Suns even if Bledsoe/ McD duo is destroying them.

 

[Phrazbit]

I hope Bosh is OK and McRoberts as well. Goran is going to have a lot of fun in Miami. I'll be adding them to my list of teams to watch, and moving them to the top of the list. Dragic will be 23 and 10 player in Miami once he gets used to the new team.

Even for the biggest of homers, that is an absurd prediction. He wont even sniff those numbers.