Suns trade out of 21

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Questonable depth? We're 9 deep with Amare and KT back

we have absolutely NO depth at guard. it's nash, bell, and barbs. and we saw this year how hampered we ended up with a single injury and/or foul trouble to the backcourt. and none of our frontcourt guys slide easily to the backcourt. they are versatile along the frontcourt, but none are really swingmen. this draft should have been about shoring up our backcourt. instead it's feecch.

 

[playstation]

We saved quite a bit more than 3 mil because draft picks are usually paid more than the minimum slotted salary:

Grant: 1.8 mil
#21: 1.2 - 1.5 mil
#27: 0.8mil - 1mil

Min Savings: 3.8 mil
Max Savings: 4.3 mil

Plus more can be saved depending on what House does:

House: Possibly 0.9 mil saved if he doesn't excersize his option

Of course we'll need to sign a vet min PG & SG so that takes some of that savings away.

homerism at its worst.

1- don't bring up house. it has nothing to do with selling picks
2-those are 2 roster spots that must have SOMEONE to play. even with min salary SCRUBS you pay a total of $500k
3- the trade to boston included US PAYING CASH TO BOSTON. we didn't save the full $1.8M, i'm guessing around half that.
4- knowing sarver, we pay the bare minimum slotting fee to the picks even if we did draft them.
5- sarver got cash for sergio which you did not include. i'm guessing that money we had to pay boston we got back with this deal

combine all that info together and you get a savings of .9 for grant, 1.2 for #21, .8 for #27, and .9 for the trade of #27, minus .5 for another guy you gotta sign in his place. GRAND TOTAL OF $3.3M in savings

Tim Thomas is looking for a deal in the range of $25-30M i'm sure. you think $3M will make that big of a difference?

david griffin said the savings is $9M. i don't understand his math.

 

[jlove]

I'm sure Griffin's math is a lot better than what we the public get from all this.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

we have absolutely NO depth at guard. it's nash, bell, and barbs. and we saw this year how hampered we ended up with a single injury and/or foul trouble to the backcourt. and none of our frontcourt guys slide easily to the backcourt. they are versatile along the frontcourt, but none are really swingmen. this draft should have been about shoring up our backcourt. instead it's feecch.

I totally agree. I suppose someone will be available for the minimum (or close to it) that would help as much as a Marcus Williams *this year*, but to mortgage the future to save a few bucks baffles me.

 

[playstation]

i get griffins math now. he assumes we pay the max cap hold to both the picks and everything we do tonight puts us that much more into the luxury tax.

therefore, a $3.8M savings automatically doubles into a $7.6M savings, but that's not all. since we're now below the tax threshold, we now get a refund check from the nba, which i'm guessing takes you to the $9m range.

creative, i have to say.

whatever, suns can do what they want...

 

[Wally]

Yes cause its so smart to save 1.8Million Dollars instead of drafting the best PG in this years draft, when you know you have a 33 year old pointguard that wore down in the playoffs from playing too many minutes.

Thats not smart, its being cheap.

Picking someone who won't fit, won't play, and cost $ is stupid. Using those $ to keep someone who does fit and will play makes a lot more sense to me. At this point, I trust MIKE D'S DECISION and to balme Sarver is totally ignorant. The draft is only one way to pick up players who fit the organization. I suspect we'll see some changes in other non productive roster spots before the summer is over.

 

[Evil Ash]

I totally agree. I suppose someone will be available for the minimum (or close to it) that would help as much as a Marcus Williams *this year*, but to mortgage the future to save a few bucks baffles me.

Who says he's the future? Maybe they didn't like him as a prospect for this system

Just because the "draft experts" like someone does not mean they will work out

 

[jlove]

With Griffin coming out and saying that we have $9 mil savings now, we would have been able to KEEP at least Rodriguez (possibly leaving him overseas) AND STILL be able to resign TT and a couple of bench warmers through free agency. I think there is possibly 3 reasons the Suns got out of this draft and they are:

A. There is still a Marion trade in the works (possibly 3-4 players coming in for Marion) to fill out our roster.

B. D'Antoni has a couple of players stashed overseas that are FREE AGENTS (weren't able to be included in the draft) that the Suns will sign.

C. D'Antoni has insider info on some Free Agents (current NBA players) that have agreed to sign with the Suns this summer (possibly Jay Williams).

 

[slinslin]

9M$ is absolutely wrong, maybe in total savings acumulated over the entire time of those contracts..

 

[JCSunsfan]

If this was about being cheap, Marion would be gone or KT would have been sold by now in a fire sale. DAntoni said in his interview today that his primary objective is to keep the team that we already have together.

As far as a "top 10 pg"--thats only in media mocks. 21 teams passed on him. If the Suns thought he was a pg they wanted, they would have taken him. It would have been a cheap solution to a problem.

If you want an owner that spends money like there is no tomorrow, you can cheer for the Knicks, or the Blazers of a few years ago. Look where that's gotten them.

Sarver has chosen to follow a very specific business model that is already in place with the Spurs and Pistons. These are teams that manage their cap $ well and always seem to be competitive (and win championships).

Sarver is an embarrassing owner at the games, but the jury is still out on him as an owner. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I can't believe today. In terms of FAs, look for Lindsey Hunter

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm very calm right now - this probably surprises most people here because I have been a pretty big unabashed Leery-Sarver guy for the last year or so, but here's the way I look at it.

This is it - this is the last run we're ever gonna see the Suns make. I DO believe Sraver to be a cheap bastard. I do believe he's a gigantic boob who talks the talk but can't wlak the walk and I do believe that once Nash is finished, most likely the Suns are pretty much... forever. Now I'm sure I'll get TOTALLY roasted for this but I don't really care and here's why:

Seeing as I have ZERO faith in Sarver, this team DESPERATELY needs to make one... more... monsterous run with basically the team that BC and JC built. They're the guys who drafted well for us for decades... they're the guys who wanted Nash and had to CONVINCE Sarver to sign him... they're the ones who saved Sarver's ass when Sarver completely botched the JJ situation and they are the ones who built this team to be the juggernaut that they should be next year.

Thus - with really one more great year from Nash - two at best - our window is closing rapidly and I don't believe that window is just shuttingon the Nash era, but it's slamming shut on the Suns as a whole.

So - with that being said, I'm not thinking about the future because I don't really see a future with Sarver at the helm. Thus, the first round draft picks are meaningless to me. Load up with all your vets and give it one mroe REALLY GREAT RUN. We all know Shawn Marion is getting traded next year (and come on now guys - anyone who saw DA's interview during the draft knows that to be the case) and we know that Sarver is cheap.

This is it. This is our greatest and LAST chance to win a freaking title. Now y'all mya think I'm being WAYYYYYY to ridiculous here, but let's face it - we have a cheap owner who the Colangelos built into a power and now that the C's are gone, I believe hope for the future is as well.

So - I'm excited! I'm excited to get that oooohhh sooooo elsuive title we've always been salivating for for over 30 years and no rookeis were gonna help that cause.

There you go - flame away!

 

[Cheesebeef]

If this was about being cheap, Marion would be gone or KT would have been sold by now in a fire sale. DAntoni said in his interview today that his primary objective is to keep the team that we already have together.

an owner is cheap if he just wants to keep the team together and can't afford to BUILD as well - plain and simple.

 

[CaptainInsano]

Cheese, fortunately we still have one last chance next year to see what # our picks are at and see what this team does with them. If that is blown, then it is the final hammer to this franchise for possibly a decade after the next 2-3 years.

At least we have one more chance in next years draft.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

9M$ is absolutely wrong, maybe in total savings acumulated over the entire time of those contracts..

That's exactly what it was.

Look, D'Antoni said BEFORE THE DRAFT that he did not like Williams, that he couldn't shoot, and that he also was not impressed with Rodriguez. Again, this was before the draft. Why pay for guys you don't like? Because the fans like them? That is crazy. D'Antoni's job is to win, not cater to the 1% of fans on a message board calling him names. He knows that Nash needs to rest and he explained that in his interview. We may not like it, but why should he care? He is going to win regardless. If Nash gets hurt or tired, a pick tonight does nothing for the Suns. Yes, Nash will need a replacement, but why tie up a guy you don't want? We knew ahead of time that the Suns weren't going to draft a PG. It was said more than once.

 

[Cheesebeef]

to be honest - if Sarver's cheap ass somehow wins us a title next year - and with a healthy Amare I think that's a VERY GOOD possibility - he can burn AWA to the ground right afterward and my life as a basketball fan will be complete... and my life as everything else probably more enjoyable!

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

There's a lot riding on Amare's knee and that's not a good thing.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

I'm very calm right now - this probably surprises most people here because I have been a pretty big unabashed Leery-Sarver guy for the last year or so, but here's the way I look at it.

This is it - this is the last run we're ever gonna see the Suns make. I DO believe Sraver to be a cheap bastard. I do believe he's a gigantic boob who talks the talk but can't wlak the walk and I do believe that once Nash is finished, most likely the Suns are pretty much... forever. Now I'm sure I'll get TOTALLY roasted for this but I don't really care and here's why:

Seeing as I have ZERO faith in Sarver, this team DESPERATELY needs to make one... more... monsterous run with basically the team that BC and JC built. They're the guys who drafted well for us for decades... they're the guys who wanted Nash and had to CONVINCE Sarver to sign him... they're the ones who saved Sarver's ass when Sarver completely botched the JJ situation and they are the ones who built this team to be the juggernaut that they should be next year.

Thus - with really one more great year from Nash - two at best - our window is closing rapidly and I don't believe that window is just shuttingon the Nash era, but it's slamming shut on the Suns as a whole.

So - with that being said, I'm not thinking about the future because I don't really see a future with Sarver at the helm. Thus, the first round draft picks are meaningless to me. Load up with all your vets and give it one mroe REALLY GREAT RUN. We all know Shawn Marion is getting traded next year (and come on now guys - anyone who saw DA's interview during the draft knows that to be the case) and we know that Sarver is cheap.

This is it. This is our greatest and LAST chance to win a freaking title. Now y'all mya think I'm being WAYYYYYY to ridiculous here, but let's face it - we have a cheap owner who the Colangelos built into a power and now that the C's are gone, I believe hope for the future is as well.

So - I'm excited! I'm excited to get that oooohhh sooooo elsuive title we've always been salivating for for over 30 years and no rookeis were gonna help that cause.

There you go - flame away!

That is awfully dramatic. So BC should have drafted Iggy? BC should have picked up whom in the last draft at 21 that could even play this style (good BB IQ, athletic, great shooter)? Who should it have been tonight? Williams - when everyone else was bailing as well even though Sacto was just as desperate as us for a backup?

Let's see, are you including Raja and TT (the "saviors" of this postseason) as the BC regime or the DAntoni/Sarver regime? Is Bell better than what could have been had in the draft? Is TT? And yes, it does matter because they are not going to do both (FA and draft), because being cap-strapped is a dumb idea. Now Grant was dumb, and they paid the price. And he also negated Padgett who would of at least been serviceable whereas Grant wasn't. So mistakes are made, but I think that you are overreacting when the team is solid and you can't say that Sarver's moves are bad when the Suns have been in the WCF twice, once without Amare at all. You must give it time. And while that sucks, it is the proper thing to do.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

There's a lot riding on Amare's knee and that's not a good thing.

True, but we don't know anything for sure until it actually fails. If his knee doesn't cooperate, we should have drafted.... who again?

It does suck that a trade could not get done. But since we don't know what the trade attempts really were, I have to take it on faith that a sincere attempt was made.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That is awfully dramatic. So BC should have drafted Iggy? BC should have picked up whom in the last draft at 21 that could even play this style (good BB IQ, athletic, great shooter)? Who should it have been tonight? Williams - when everyone else was bailing as well even though Sacto was just as desperate as us for a backup?

Let's see, are you including Raja and TT (the "saviors" of this postseason) as the BC regime or the DAntoni/Sarver regime? Is Bell better than what could have been had in the draft? Is TT? And yes, it does matter because they are not going to do both (FA and draft), because being cap-strapped is a dumb idea. Now Grant was dumb, and they paid the price. And he also negated Padgett who would of at least been serviceable whereas Grant wasn't. So mistakes are made, but I think that you are overreacting when the team is solid and you can't say that Sarver's moves are bad when the Suns have been in the WCF twice, once without Amare at all. You must give it time. And while that sucks, it is the proper thing to do.

Ummm... 1) did I say anything about Iggy? I supported that move when Colangelo made it and still think it was the right thing to do.

2) Bell was part of the BC regime

3) I had no problem trading away 21 and Q last year because we needed to get KT

4) TT was a NO-BRAINER.

So - all of the above - was BC (save the TT mvoe - which again - a freaking monkey could have figured out) - However - let's look at the financial aspect of Sarver's dealings because that's really all he has an impact on a) he didn't want to sign Steve Nash - was talked into by BC b) Get us into the messy fiasco with JJ which BC got him out of c) had a fire sale today because of money - plain and simple.

I refuse to believe that with two picks DFA couldn't have ANYBODY who could have fit his game or even a guy he wante dto take a shot on - but with Sasrver holdign the purse strings, there is no taking shots. You're making it sound like it's an either or thing - sign TT or sign draft picks - uh, HE COULD HAVE DONE BOTH. And if DA COULDN'T find anybody to take there, well, then BC and his scouting leaving is gonna be a whole lot bigger problem than I thought it was.

 

[Cheesebeef]

and don't ANYONE get me wrong - I loved what happened tonight. I think we're positioned to win it all next year, providing Sarver's not made to look like a complete an utter jackass and we keep TT and KT and Leo and Shawn - and well, basically everyone under contract including TT.

 

[F-Dog]

That is awfully dramatic. So BC should have drafted Iggy? BC should have picked up whom in the last draft at 21 that could even play this style (good BB IQ, athletic, great shooter)?

Don't forget the BC who wound up jumping the gun with the draft--again--and being forced by his promise (and the fact that everybody knew about it) to pick Bargnani with the #1 overall pick, even though Bargnani almost certainly wasn't the BPA, and he almost certainly would have been available at #7 or even later.

Those guys were good, but they weren't perfect. There's room for the new regime to match or even surpass the Colangelos, and they start out from a pretty good spot for it.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Ummm... 1) did I say anything about Iggy? I supported that move when Colangelo made it and still think it was the right thing to do.

2) Bell was part of the BC regime

3) I had no problem trading away 21 and Q last year because we needed to get KT

4) TT was a NO-BRAINER.

So - all of the above - was BC (save the TT mvoe - which again - a freaking monkey could have figured out) - However - let's look at the financial aspect of Sarver's dealings because that's really all he has an impact on a) he didn't want to sign Steve Nash - was talked into by BC b) Get us into the messy fiasco with JJ which BC got him out of c) had a fire sale today because of money - plain and simple.

I refuse to believe that with two picks DFA couldn't have ANYBODY who could have fit his game or even a guy he wante dto take a shot on - but with Sasrver holdign the purse strings, there is no taking shots. You're making it sound like it's an either or thing - sign TT or sign draft picks - uh, HE COULD HAVE DONE BOTH. And if DA COULDN'T find anybody to take there, well, then BC and his scouting leaving is gonna be a whole lot bigger problem than I thought it was.

This is a championship caliber team that is 9 deep with great talent. Who is he gonna play with those guaranteed contracts? This team is more than the collection of its parts, so it is not just add in any individual piece. This team is well thought out, IMO, so I will let those making the decisions do just that. So you are saying that Sarver wanted to "cheap out" on Nash but also signed the check for an - at the time - overpaid Raja Bell, who worked out wonderfully? Comeon, don't be so one-sided. I won't tell you that it is wrong to call Sarver cheap, but I just don't think that he has been. I don't call refusing to pay luxury tax cheap.

 

[thundermike]

I agree with who says that we did a big mistake. Every year we say that we need a backup for Nash (D'Antoni, stop saying that Barbosa can do it! He can't!) and now that we had the opportunity to have 3 good player (excellent with Williams) that could help us very much and could develop well under the wing of Nash we pass over them?? I really don't understand... At least i would have taken the 27th with Rodriguez. But also Rondo for me was one of the best playmaker available (and loves to run like us, perfect). This story of savying 1-2 million dollars in every possible way is starting to upset me... In general we always did disaster at draft, with the exception of the Amare's pick (the 7th to Chicago was comical...we could get Deng and instead we received the 20 or something like that...). Next year what well we do? Trade the pick of Atlanta for free food for the players? Mah...
And i'm sure we're going to sign Barbosa for 5-6 millions when we could have a serious play (and not an imitation like the brasilian) for less than 2: unexplainable.

 

[Joe Mama]

Let's get something straight. I think it was a mistake to pass on Marcus Williams, but the people inside the Phoenix Suns organization who passed on him were the talent evaluators. It was not Sarver. If they had told him that they needed to take Williams the Phoenix Suns would have taken Williams.

Again, I think a lot of teams are going to regret passing on Williams, but obviously there were red flags all over the place with this guy. although I think it was a mistake I can understand the reasoning.

I also think some of you are misreading Sarver. This guy is highly competitive. He might not want to break the bank like some of the more reckless and freespending owners in the NBA, but he's going to do what he has to do to put a winner on the floor.

I love all of the arguments about JJ. can we all agree that not signing JJ to an extension ended up being a good thing? I certainly believe it was. In fact I think it's entirely possible that we will end up saying it was a good thing that he wasn't even signed the season before because of where we will end up with Diaw and the draft picks.

So I don't understand is how everything works out so well, and BC gets all of the credit, and Sarver gets none. I actually think it's ridiculous. If you ask me the Colangelos needed someone like Sarver. Of course I do think some of his antics have been embarrassing in ridiculous, but that's a whole other story.

Joe