Suns trade rumors

[Mainstreet]

Its really moot anyway now that the deadline is past. I trust McD and Hornacek and am willing to let the season progress, but I don't see much success in the playoffs with a Frye, Plumlee, Morris twin front line. I would love to know who they are going to target in the offseason with all those picks. It doesn't make sense to pick 3 (possibly 4) players in the draft this year.

The Suns may not use all the possible 6 round draft picks they have in the next two drafts on drafting players. They may use some of them to trade for a player with star potential. As I view it the Suns are still building for the future rather make a limited run in the playoffs this season and exhaust some of their resources. The Suns are not ready to make a title run.

 

[elindholm]

I was never into the Gasol scenarios, but if the Suns could have had Jordan Hill for the IND pick -- and that's apparently a better return than what the Lakers said they needed from the Nets -- then I'm disappointed that they didn't make the move. It's quite unlikely that the Suns will get a better player at the end of the first round than Hill, and he's still young enough (26) to have some potential as a long-term asset.

 

[GYDevil]

Spending money without significant return in player personnel is not what is best for the Suns. Why give other owners the money. I want the Suns to be financially sound so when a big trade comes along, the Suns ownership is willing to spend. This is a long way from the days when the Suns traded Kurt Thomas and two first round draft picks to rid themselves of his contract.

Gasol or Hill were both better options than saving Sarver some pocket cash and the 30th pick in the draft. Most NBA talking heads (Steve Kerr anyone?) would agree with me.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I was never into the Gasol scenarios, but if the Suns could have had Jordan Hill for the IND pick -- and that's apparently a better return than what the Lakers said they needed from the Nets -- then I'm disappointed that they didn't make the move. It's quite unlikely that the Suns will get a better player at the end of the first round than Hill, and he's still young enough (26) to have some potential as a long-term asset.

Agreed, esp if they could have had him for a 2nd rounder. This team is very fun to watch, and are having an amazing year, but just don't have the firepower to compete. Hill would have given them another credible big, and if the cost was just a 2nd, would have been worth it.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gasol or Hill were both better options than saving Sarver some pocket cash and the 30th pick in the draft. Most NBA talking heads (Steve Kerr anyone?) would agree with me.

Kerr orchestrated the Kurt Thomas trade which he admittedly said was one of the worst trades in NBA history.

 

[Catlover]

Its really moot anyway now that the deadline is past. I trust McD and Hornacek and am willing to let the season progress, but I don't see much success in the playoffs with a Frye, Plumlee, Morris twin front line. I would love to know who they are going to target in the offseason with all those picks. It doesn't make sense to pick 3 (possibly 4) players in the draft this year.

I don't either, in fact, if Bledsoe doesn't return soon and healthy I think we'll drop out of the first 8 spots before March is over. Without Eric we're a very average team and that probably won't be enough to hold off Golden State, Dallas and Memphis. But I don't see Pau changing that, he hasn't made the Lakers better in a few years so why should he improve us? He's been on a steady decline the past 4 seasons and he'd get us eaten alive in the pick and roll or the pick and pop. He'd add some low post scoring and he's still an excellent passer but we don't have a person playing the five spot that is as bad as Pau is defensively IMO.

His +/- per 100 possessions for the past 5 years reflects his decline. In the 2009 playoffs he was +9 and since then he's been (in order) +5, +3, -6 and last year he was -17. There's a reason he's been the whipping boy on Laker forums the past several years (predating the D'antoni hiring).

Gasol is soft physically and he's soft mentally and his decent years are well behind him. I'd have much preferred Hill or Kaman and not because they are so much better but because they would have both been much more content filling a backup role. It wouldn't have killed us to throw in the Indy pick to make a Gasol trade but I'm excited that we're no longer devaluing our picks in this manner. Maybe it means we really are past the day when we sell them for chump change.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was never into the Gasol scenarios, but if the Suns could have had Jordan Hill for the IND pick -- and that's apparently a better return than what the Lakers said they needed from the Nets -- then I'm disappointed that they didn't make the move. It's quite unlikely that the Suns will get a better player at the end of the first round than Hill, and he's still young enough (26) to have some potential as a long-term asset.

I agree, the Hill trade was intriguing. However, there may have been some other factors in play.

 

[Chaplin]

Its really moot anyway now that the deadline is past. I trust McD and Hornacek and am willing to let the season progress, but I don't see much success in the playoffs with a Frye, Plumlee, Morris twin front line. I would love to know who they are going to target in the offseason with all those picks. It doesn't make sense to pick 3 (possibly 4) players in the draft this year.

Who cares? With Gasol or Hill or anyone not named Love or Lebron, do you actually think success in this year's playoffs is the reason for making a trade? Fans tend to have short-term thinking when it comes to their team, but if you have the opportunity to save a few bucks, I don't blame Sarver one bit.

Now, if McD had decided they wanted a guy and Sarver vetoed it because he wanted to save the money, that's one thing. But there are absolutely no indications that was the case. McD is thinking beyond this year's playoffs, and rightly so. If you trust McD, then trust him.

 

[SirStefan32]

Well said, Chap. I agree 100%.

 

[Chaplin]

I was never into the Gasol scenarios, but if the Suns could have had Jordan Hill for the IND pick -- and that's apparently a better return than what the Lakers said they needed from the Nets -- then I'm disappointed that they didn't make the move. It's quite unlikely that the Suns will get a better player at the end of the first round than Hill, and he's still young enough (26) to have some potential as a long-term asset.

I wonder if the Lakers were really dangling Hill with that kind of pricetag. For all we know, they could have said that Hill was available only when discussing Gasol trades. We weren't going to give a pick for Gasol, but if the Lakers said that they would throw in Hill if they included a pick, maybe the Suns thought about it--problem there is that Okafor and a pick wouldn't have worked, we would have had to include Frye or one of the Morri. I think it's clear by now that the front office doesn't want to do that.

 

[Mainstreet]

I don't either, in fact, if Bledsoe doesn't return soon and healthy I think we'll drop out of the first 8 spots before March is over. Without Eric we're a very average team and that probably won't be enough to hold off Golden State, Dallas and Memphis. But I don't see Pau changing that, he hasn't made the Lakers better in a few years so why should he improve us? He's been on a steady decline the past 4 seasons and he'd get us eaten alive in the pick and roll or the pick and pop. He'd add some low post scoring and he's still an excellent passer but we don't have a person playing the five spot that is as bad as Pau is defensively IMO.

His +/- per 100 possessions for the past 5 years reflects his decline. In the 2009 playoffs he was +9 and since then he's been (in order) +5, +3, -6 and last year he was -17. There's a reason he's been the whipping boy on Laker forums the past several years (predating the D'antoni hiring).

Gasol is soft physically and he's soft mentally and his decent years are well behind him. I'd have much preferred Hill or Kaman and not because they are so much better but because they would have both been much more content filling a backup role. It wouldn't have killed us to throw in the Indy pick to make a Gasol trade but I'm excited that we're no longer devaluing our picks in this manner. Maybe it means we really are past the day when we sell them for chump change.

I do not view this as a disaster. I can't say I like Kaman but Hill (as I said earlier) would have been of interest. We agree about Gasol for the price.

 

[GYDevil]

Kerr orchestrated the Kurt Thomas trade which he admittedly said was one of the worst trades in NBA history.

Yea, I am sure that the GM of a basketball team just decided one night that he was going to trade away a few first round picks to get rid of a guy's salary. I highly doubt Sarver had anything to do with that.

And I believe that Kerr drafted Goran and said at the time that he thought he had the potential to be a Star. That one worked out pretty well.

 

[elindholm]

And I believe that Kerr drafted Goran and said at the time that he thought he had the potential to be a Star. That one worked out pretty well.

True, but realistically, doesn't pretty much any just-drafted player have "the potential" to be a star? I mean that's not exactly going out on a limb. Kendall Marshall, Zarko Cabarkapa, Casey Jacobsen, they all had the potential to be stars, didn't they?

 

[GYDevil]

Who cares? With Gasol or Hill or anyone not named Love or Lebron, do you actually think success in this year's playoffs is the reason for making a trade? Fans tend to have short-term thinking when it comes to their team, but if you have the opportunity to save a few bucks, I don't blame Sarver one bit.

Now, if McD had decided they wanted a guy and Sarver vetoed it because he wanted to save the money, that's one thing. But there are absolutely no indications that was the case. McD is thinking beyond this year's playoffs, and rightly so. If you trust McD, then trust him.

Chap, I think I just might put this quote in my signature line. And then another poster agreed with you!! This is a fan forum right?

Um, yea, I do think success in this year's playoffs is a reason for making a trade. Especially if you are trading essentially the 30th pick in the draft for a guy who averages 20/10.

 

[GYDevil]

True, but realistically, doesn't pretty much any just-drafted player have "the potential" to be a star? I mean that's not exactly going out on a limb. Kendall Marshall, Zarko Cabarkapa, Casey Jacobsen, they all had the potential to be stars, didn't they?

No, they don't. I don't think I heard anyone say that about any of those guys you listed. Dragic was a virtual unknown and the Suns traded up to get him in the second round. You can't deny that Kerr put in the work and it paid off. That is a GM win if I ever saw one.

 

[SirStefan32]

Chap, I think I just might put this quote in my signature line. And then another poster agreed with you!! This is a fan forum right?

Um, yea, I do think success in this year's playoffs is a reason for making a trade. Especially if you are trading essentially the 30th pick in the draft for a guy who averages 20/10.

This is, indeed, a fan forum, but it is also, for the most part, a very intelligent fan forum. Not many people here are short-sighted. Most fans here understand that long-term goals are more important than MAYBE winning one playoff series this year.

 

[Catlover]

This is, indeed, a fan forum, but it is also, for the most part, a very intelligent fan forum. Not many people here are short-sighted. Most fans here understand that long-term goals are more important than MAYBE winning one playoff series this year.

I agree. Most of us want to see us win, short term and long term but we also recognize that winning one playoff series isn't our overall goal. We may disagree on how to get there but we all want to get to the same place.

 

[elindholm]

No, they don't. I don't think I heard anyone say that about any of those guys you listed.

Chris Mullin on Cabarkapa: "His youth and ability to play multiple positions are very intriguing. We think he has a bright future in this league." http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/acquire_zarko_cabarkapa.html

BleacherReport.com on Marshall: "If I were to project the second player out of this (draft) class (after Anthony Davis) to make an All-Star game, my bet would be on Marshall." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ll-marshall-could-be-the-drafts-biggest-steal

But you're right, I couldn't find one for Jacobsen. Not instantly, anyway.

Dragic was a virtual unknown and the Suns traded up to get him in the second round. You can't deny that Kerr put in the work and it paid off. That is a GM win if I ever saw one.

Almost everyone taken in the second round is a virtual unknown. Look at any recent second round compared to the mocks leading up to it. They're completely different sets of names. Yes, Kerr did his homework and found a good player, and getting anyone in the second round who ends up sticking around in the league is a major accomplishment. Nonetheless, it's a trick that one or two teams pull off every year, not some sort of world-class brilliancy.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wonder if the Suns would have any interest in Glen Davis as the Magic are buying him out. He is not a player I have followed but the Suns would have the money to get him.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/232081/Glen-Davis-Magic-Agree-On-Buyout

 

[SirStefan32]

I wonder if the Suns would have any interest in Glen Davis as the Magic are buying him out. He is not a player I have followed but the Suns would have the money to get him.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/232081/Glen-Davis-Magic-Agree-On-Buyout

I am not sure that he bring anything to the table that the Suns need. Without looking it up, I don't think he ever averaged over 45% shooting or over 7 rebounds. At the very least, he never averaged much more than that, though he did have one unusually good season a year or two ago.

Can't shoot, no athleticism, not a good rebounder, and no real low post game.

EDIT:
If the Suns need some low-post scoring, they'd be better off seeing if Drew Gooden is healthy and available. He is far from anything that resembles a good, complete favor, but at lest he can score in the low post.

 

[JS22]

I agree, the Hill trade was intriguing. However, there may have been some other factors in play.

If the Suns had any interest in Hill, I'm going to assume that the Lakers were being drama queens about the Gasol situation and didn't want to deal with PHX regarding Hill.

That, and a non-guaranteed 2nd rounder probably holds a little more value than one of the last picks in the 1st. (Guaranteed money.)

 

[JS22]

I wonder if the Lakers were really dangling Hill with that kind of pricetag. For all we know, they could have said that Hill was available only when discussing Gasol trades. We weren't going to give a pick for Gasol, but if the Lakers said that they would throw in Hill if they included a pick, maybe the Suns thought about it--problem there is that Okafor and a pick wouldn't have worked, we would have had to include Frye or one of the Morri. I think it's clear by now that the front office doesn't want to do that.

That makes sense. I didn't look at it financially.

Although, a Hill / Frye swap might be something that I'd consider. And this is coming from one of the few Frye defenders on this board. His Per 36 is 16/13. I know it's an unreliable stat, but that's pretty impressive. And he's only 26.

 

[Catlover]

That makes sense. I didn't look at it financially.

Although, a Hill / Frye swap might be something that I'd consider. And this is coming from one of the few Frye defenders on this board. His Per 36 is 16/13. I know it's an unreliable stat, but that's pretty impressive. And he's only 26.

I'd especially consider it if we were looking at going after Greg Monroe in the offseason. With our current lineup, I think Hill would be a huge downgrade for Frye but his defense alongside Monroe might fit perfectly.

 

[Drop D]

Chris Mullin on Cabarkapa: "His youth and ability to play multiple positions are very intriguing. We think he has a bright future in this league." http://www.nba.com/warriors/news/acquire_zarko_cabarkapa.html

BleacherReport.com on Marshall: "If I were to project the second player out of this (draft) class (after Anthony Davis) to make an All-Star game, my bet would be on Marshall." http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ll-marshall-could-be-the-drafts-biggest-steal

But you're right, I couldn't find one for Jacobsen. Not instantly, anyway.



Almost everyone taken in the second round is a virtual unknown. Look at any recent second round compared to the mocks leading up to it. They're completely different sets of names. Yes, Kerr did his homework and found a good player, and getting anyone in the second round who ends up sticking around in the league is a major accomplishment. Nonetheless, it's a trick that one or two teams pull off every year, not some sort of world-class brilliancy.

Mullin's quote re: Cabarkapa came after we gave him away for two 2nd rd picks. Granted, he showed flashes but was never the same after breaking his wrists. Such a shame too.

Just about everyone (on this board at least) panned the Marshall pick as a pg that was slow and couldn't shoot with a ceiling of a back-up pg.

I heard Jacobson's girlfriend could become a star during the draft.

 

[SunsTzu]

I was never into the Gasol scenarios, but if the Suns could have had Jordan Hill for the IND pick -- and that's apparently a better return than what the Lakers said they needed from the Nets -- then I'm disappointed that they didn't make the move. It's quite unlikely that the Suns will get a better player at the end of the first round than Hill, and he's still young enough (26) to have some potential as a long-term asset.

If the Suns view Hill as a long term asset they could just go after him in free agency and still have the pick to play with, I wouldn't have wanted to include a 1st for him as a rental.