Suns trade rumors

[Catlover]

Markieff is an MLE player, or maybe even higher, if he can sustain the production he's shown so far this season. Marcus's only value is the alleged positive effect his presence has on Markieff's play. By himself, Marcus is an unathletic SF with an average shot, no handle, and below-average defense. You can find a player like that anywhere.

Are you watching every game? Marcus has been even more inconsistent than his brother so it would be easy to gain a skewed impression of him if you're just viewing on occasion. Anyway, Marcus has been key in many of our wins and your description of him doesn't match up with what I've observed. To me, he's been better than his equivalent more often than not and you can't just find a player like that anywhere. CBS Sports player ranking this season show him as the 150th best player and Hollinger shows him as the 107th. Considering he is the 274th highest paid player in the game I think we're getting pretty good return on the player. Even if you discard the idea that they bring more value as a pair than each is worth individually he has more than earned his way IMO and there is no reason to believe he's peaked.

 

[elindholm]

Are you watching every game?

No, so it's possible that I've seen a skewed sample by chance. But I can also see his statistics.

To me, he's been better than his equivalent more often than not and you can't just find a player like that anywhere. CBS Sports player ranking this season show him as the 150th best player and Hollinger shows him as the 107th.

Hollinger's PER for him is a shade under 16, and the league average is 15. So he's in the middle of the pack. Mediocre wings change teams all the time, and Marcus doesn't bring anything special to the table, except possible for his influence on Markieff.

On CBS's list, he's in the same neighborhood as Shaun Livingston, Norris Cole, and Jared Dudley. This isn't the level of player you make a long-term commitment to.

Considering he is the 274th highest paid player in the game I think we're getting pretty good return on the player.

But that's not the point.

 

[Mainstreet]

As long as Markieff and Marcus will accept a bundling discount when the time comes, I am happy to have them come off the bench. The thing I have noticed about them, one seems to have a better night when the other one has an off night although I haven't tried to track it.

 

[Catlover]

No, so it's possible that I've seen a skewed sample by chance. But I can also see his statistics.



Hollinger's PER for him is a shade under 16, and the league average is 15. So he's in the middle of the pack. Mediocre wings change teams all the time, and Marcus doesn't bring anything special to the table, except possible for his influence on Markieff.

On CBS's list, he's in the same neighborhood as Shaun Livingston, Norris Cole, and Jared Dudley. This isn't the level of player you make a long-term commitment to.

For a bench player aren't those fairly decent numbers? I'm not saying we have to stay with him forever but all this talk about throwing him into a deal just to make it work seems counterproductive especially when his game seems to be still on the rise.

He has certainly won us some games this season and I've heard opposing teams talk about the difficulty the two of them present to the defense because of looking alike but bringing different skills to the contest. I also would be in favor of keeping him because we don't have a lot of players that have offensive skills AND like to play physical. The Morrises do and if they can ever figure out how to play with the same focus and effort each night they're going to be All Stars or at least in the discussion.

 

[Catlover]

As long as Markieff and Marcus will accept a bundling discount when the time comes, I am happy to have them come off the bench. The thing I have noticed about them, one seems to have a better night when the other one has an off night although I haven't tried to track it.

I haven't tracked it either but you're right and it's been pretty obvious. I'm not sure what's going on but one of them seems to be crucial in each of our wins and only rarely have they both shined on the same night.

I don't think they are going to volunteer for a bundling discount just to stay in Phoenix but I'd wager if one of them leaves the other won't be far behind. At one point this season it looked like Markieff was going to become a borderline star and Marcus was an anchor on this team but that turned around almost immediately after Keef won his player of the week award. Since that time I think Marcus has probably had at least as many good nights as his brother.

I maintain that our exceptional chemistry is in no small part the result of these two guys playing together. They are like a team within a team and normally that might present problems but it seems to be the building block for the unity this team shows. At least that's what I'm drawing from the announcer comments, player interviews and the pregame shows.

 

[TucsonDevil]

On a completed unrelated note, how do we block from seeing posts? I know there was a way, but I cant remember it.

 

[Catlover]

On a completed unrelated note, how do we block from seeing posts? I know there was a way, but I cant remember it.

If you're asking about how to put another poster on ignore, you do that through the User CP. Just scroll down to "Edit Ignore List" and enter the user's screen name. It will block that person's post but you'll still see them if someone quotes one of their posts.

 

[Phrazbit]

Felton displaying some of those "leadership" qualities Blanks was fond of as the Knicks were a clutch time huddle last night.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Mainstreet]

Felton displaying some of those "leadership" qualities Blanks was fond of as the Knicks were a clutch time huddle last night.

He was just trying to calm the Knicks.

I'm glad Sarver made the right move and chose Dragic over Felton... and Lance Blanks. I'm so happy Blanks is no longer the Suns GM.

 

[Superbone]

I'm glad Sarver made the right move and chose Dragic over Felton... and Lance Blanks. I'm so happy Blanks is no longer the Suns GM.

I'll be surprised if Blanks is able to get a job in basketball again after his debacle in Phoenix.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'll be surprised if Blanks is able to get a job in basketball again after his debacle in Phoenix.

I thought some team hired Blanks but I can't find any record of it so perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Superbone]

I thought some team hired Blanks but I can't find any record of it so perhaps I'm wrong.

Whoa! from Wikipedia, I can't even imagine:

Also while in San Antonio, Blanks served as the Spurs' television analyst during the 2004-05 season.

 

[Mainstreet]

Whoa! from Wikipedia, I can't even imagine:

Also while in San Antonio, Blanks served as the Spurs' television analyst during the 2004-05 season.

Interesting. While Blanks was with the Suns he didn't seem to interact much with the public.

 

[Superbone]

Interesting. While Blanks was with the Suns he didn't seem to interact much with the public.

He was a horrible interview on local Phoenix radio. After a while, they quit doing them.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

No, so it's possible that I've seen a skewed sample by chance. But I can also see his statistics.



Hollinger's PER for him is a shade under 16, and the league average is 15. So he's in the middle of the pack. Mediocre wings change teams all the time, and Marcus doesn't bring anything special to the table, except possible for his influence on Markieff.

On CBS's list, he's in the same neighborhood as Shaun Livingston, Norris Cole, and Jared Dudley. This isn't the level of player you make a long-term commitment to.



But that's not the point.

On the subject of PER. There are 373 players that have played at least 20 games this year and among those 373 players only 117 have an equal or better PER than Marcus Morris. 15.7 may only be .7 more than 15 (league average) but players with a 15 PER are typically considered to be a pretty good player that plays a pretty big role on their team.

One thing that PER doesn't really take into account is defense and hustle and those are 2 things that allow Marcus to get playing time even when he isn't shooting the ball well. He may not be a really good defender, but he is solid and he hustles while he is on the floor.

 

[elindholm]

On the subject of PER. There are 373 players that have played at least 20 games this year and among those 373 players only 117 have an equal or better PER than Marcus Morris.

That's fine, but since Hollinger's PER is not exactly definitive, you're going to see a huge variance in how middle-of-the-pack players are ranked. Change the statistical weighting slightly and Morris might move 30 spots one way or another, since everyone is the middle is so tightly bunched.

I think that we can agree that Marcus Morris is somewhere in the general neighborhood of average by NBA standards, and that he's credible in the role of 7th or 8th man on a low-seed playoff team. It appears that we don't agree on whether that's the kind of player that it makes sense to think about a long-term future with.

 

[slinslin]

Marcus Morris is an ok player, he is good enough as a bech guy and slowly but steadily improving. I don't see the problem.

As for Okafor trade rumors the only appealing rumors are Monroe or Turner.

Monroe seems like he would cost too much while Turner and Hawes or Young could possible be gotten for Okafor and the Pacers pick.

I see potential in Turner to be a long-term starter at SF. He started the season hot and cooled off but sitll he has shown consistant development and is very talented. He is a consistent 3 point shot away from being a very good player and starting SF is the position on the Suns roster where we have the least talent followed by PF, Center (Plumlee, Len), shooting guard (Dragic, Goodwin) and point guard (Bledsoe, Dragic).

Not sure if Monroe plays well enough in our tempo and would agree to a deal that makes it acceptable to tade for him.

I would say no and we should focus on trading up for Noah Vonleh come draft day to fill our PF position for the future.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think that we can agree that Marcus Morris is somewhere in the general neighborhood of average by NBA standards, and that he's credible in the role of 7th or 8th man on a low-seed playoff team. It appears that we don't agree on whether that's the kind of player that it makes sense to think about a long-term future with.

I think it depends on the price tag. For $2M per year, it absolutely makes sense. Somewhere around $5M, it makes no sense at all.

Before the season, I was hoping their options wouldn't even be picked up. During the season, I saw some good things- Markieff is no longer trying to be Frye, and Marcus has actually looked OK on defense (Not great, but OK) while shooting a decent percentage.

I am somewhat back to my original feelings though- I just don't see either one of them as anything but parts of the second unit. If surrounded by right players, I think they can be valuable pieces of the second unit, but I'd be very hesitant to offer them more than $2-3M per year each- maybe a little more to Markief and a little less to Marcus simply because bench SFs are dime a dozen, while PFs are a little more difficult to find.

 

[SirStefan32]

I would say no and we should focus on trading up for Noah Vonleh come draft day to fill our PF position for the future.

I could not agree more. He rebounds, which usually translates from college to the NBA, he has a very nice offensive game, and is not a bad defender. I would be very happy if the Suns managed to get him.

 

[Catlover]

That's fine, but since Hollinger's PER is not exactly definitive, you're going to see a huge variance in how middle-of-the-pack players are ranked. Change the statistical weighting slightly and Morris might move 30 spots one way or another, since everyone is the middle is so tightly bunched.

I think that we can agree that Marcus Morris is somewhere in the general neighborhood of average by NBA standards, and that he's credible in the role of 7th or 8th man on a low-seed playoff team. It appears that we don't agree on whether that's the kind of player that it makes sense to think about a long-term future with.

I think many of us can agree that Morris is somewhere in the general neighborhood of slightly above average by NBA standards and that he's more than credible in the role of 7th or 8th man on a quality team. Maybe we can't number you among the signers to that particular agreement but at least we've edged you slightly upward from your earlier position that he had no real value (you said his ONLY value was his "alleged" positive effect on Keef).

He's very up and down. Some nights he's the best sub on the floor for either team and some nights he has little to no positive impact on the game. Much the same can be said about his brother, the biggest difference being that Markieff strung a few good games together early in the season and was recognized by the league for that performance. Since then, they may as well be twins for all the difference in their games.

 

[Catlover]

I would say no and we should focus on trading up for Noah Vonleh come draft day to fill our PF position for the future.

I could not agree more. He rebounds, which usually translates from college to the NBA, he has a very nice offensive game, and is not a bad defender. I would be very happy if the Suns managed to get him.

It's a nice dream but I don't see how we make it happen. Unless Indiana really disappoints I can't see him dropping below 6th or 7th this year and he's a decent bet to be the number 1 pick if he stays another year. I'd be willing to offer two picks and the Morris brothers to move up for him spot but I don't think anyone is likely to move out of those top 7 or 8 spots.

 

[Chaplin]

I think many of us can agree that Morris is somewhere in the general neighborhood of slightly above average by NBA standards and that he's more than credible in the role of 7th or 8th man on a quality team. Maybe we can't number you among the signers to that particular agreement but at least we've edged you slightly upward from your earlier position that he had no real value (you said his ONLY value was his "alleged" positive effect on Keef).

He's very up and down. Some nights he's the best sub on the floor for either team and some nights he has little to no positive impact on the game. Much the same can be said about his brother, the biggest difference being that Markieff strung a few good games together early in the season and was recognized by the league for that performance. Since then, they may as well be twins for all the difference in their games.

Did I just read that correctly? You think Marcus Morris slightly ABOVE average? I'd like to know who the "many" are that think this. I don't see how anyone can say that about either one of the twins. At best, they are no more than straight average, certainly not above average.

 

[Catlover]

Did I just read that correctly? You think Marcus Morris slightly ABOVE average? I'd like to know who the "many" are that think this. I don't see how anyone can say that about either one of the twins. At best, they are no more than straight average, certainly not above average.

Look at the numbers, advanced or otherwise. Of the 300 plus NBA players his on court value is slightly above average (140th or thereabouts). If you want to restrict it to just the players that log significant minutes, his rating would drop but looking at the entire league he has played better than more than half the players that will grace a roster this year.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Did I just read that correctly? You think Marcus Morris slightly ABOVE average? I'd like to know who the "many" are that think this. I don't see how anyone can say that about either one of the twins. At best, they are no more than straight average, certainly not above average.

When you start looking at other rosters, yes, Markieff is clearly above average and Marcus is slightly above average. Plus, they are still on rookie deals, so that helps more.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Ah yes, the debate over whether two of our players are "average" or "above average". It must surely be a sign of the times for this team. But "times they are a changing..."