Suns trade rumors

[BC867]

Did I just read that correctly? You think Marcus Morris slightly ABOVE average? I'd like to know who the "many" are that think this. I don't see how anyone can say that about either one of the twins. At best, they are no more than straight average, certainly not above average.

Good one game, not a factor the next . . . averages out to -- average.

Or how about . . . one of the twins has a good game while the other is marginal. That also averages out to -- average. With two salaries involved.

Plus the factor of trading one would devaluate the other.

As all other gimmicks, it catches up with you.

 

[Covert Rain]

Phoenix fans tend to overvalue their own players. It's usually not until we get on the court or teams thumb their nose up at our trade proposals do we come down to earth.

 

[SirStefan32]

It's a nice dream but I don't see how we make it happen. Unless Indiana really disappoints I can't see him dropping below 6th or 7th this year and he's a decent bet to be the number 1 pick if he stays another year. I'd be willing to offer two picks and the Morris brothers to move up for him spot but I don't think anyone is likely to move out of those top 7 or 8 spots.

Bledsoe- that's how we make it happen.

 

[Catlover]

Good one game, not a factor the next . . . averages out to -- average.

Or how about . . . one of the twins has a good game while the other is marginal. That also averages out to -- average. With two salaries involved.

Plus the factor of trading one would devaluate the other.

As all other gimmicks, it catches up with you.

I don't know if that's the precise ratio but it's close enough for this discussion. As for keeping them together, it's no more of a gimmick than any other aspect of a team that helps it win. Looking at this roster it's hard not to conclude that we have played better than our individual players would warrant. There has to be a reason or reasons for this synergy. I believe that their presence on the court and in the locker room is a contributing factor. Nothing gimmicky about that.

 

[Catlover]

Bledsoe- that's how we make it happen.

Bledsoe, without giving up more assets? Hmmm. Might work and might even work out. We'd then need a more traditional shooting guard, one that can create his own shot and take a little pressure off the PG but it might be worth it to add Vonleh.

 

[Catlover]

Phoenix fans tend to overvalue their own players. It's usually not until we get on the court or teams thumb their nose up at our trade proposals do we come down to earth.

Really? Dragic is something less than an All Star point guard. Bledsoe can't shoot, can't distribute and has been injured most of the season. Green is a dumb player, can't handle the ball, takes horrible shots and is nothing special on defense. Tucker is all defense but offensively challenged and would be nothing more than a role player on a decent team. Frye is the worst big man in the league. Plumlee is raw and can't even get on the court in the 4th quarter. The Morris twins are a waste of space and many (most) fans thought we should have just cut them before the start of the season. Len is awkward and rarely plays. And so on. So tell me, how do we have the 9th best record in the entire league? The truth is, sometimes we overrate our players and sometimes we over-criticize them.

 

[Covert Rain]

Really? Dragic is something less than an All Star point guard. Bledsoe can't shoot, can't distribute and has been injured most of the season. Green is a dumb player, can't handle the ball, takes horrible shots and is nothing special on defense. Tucker is all defense but offensively challenged and would be nothing more than a role player on a decent team. Frye is the worst big man in the league. Plumlee is raw and can't even get on the court in the 4th quarter. The Morris twins are a waste of space and many (most) fans thought we should have just cut them before the start of the season. Len is awkward and rarely plays. And so on. So tell me, how do we have the 9th best record in the entire league? The truth is, sometimes we overrate our players and sometimes we over-criticize them.

Yes, really. I know you have not been on these boards long. However, the "vets" on here can validate exactly what I am saying. Heck do your own little searches on these very boards and you will get a taste. Does it apply to every poster or every situation? No, that's not what I said.

Besides, that the end of the day, if we don't have teams knocking down our door offering FAIR VALUE for our players that says something about our own perception of said player and probably what the reality is outside our bubble.

 

[Catlover]

Yes, really. I know you have not been on these boards long. However, the "vets" on here can validate exactly what I am saying. Heck do your own little searches on these very boards and you will get a taste.

I've been here a lot longer than my account indicates. I've rarely had the time and opportunity to post so I didn't even bother to sign up until a few years ago. I just used my husband's account to follow the Suns forum when I found some spare time. Until recently I worked full time and I take care of a disabled husband who sometimes requires a lot of support so spare time was sparse. I'm down to working 2 days a week so I have more free time and get to actually watch all the games finally.

I've read your statement before. That doesn't mean it has validity. It's accurate at times with some posters and it's accurate at times with some players but it doesn't stand as fact. Again, look at the examples I provided. Those are all common complaints about the players on this team and yet we're winning. We're winning far beyond expectations which suggests that these individuals might not be as bad as many of the posters here have labelled them.

 

[Covert Rain]

I've read your statement before. That doesn't mean it has validity. It's accurate at times with some posters and it's accurate at times with some players but it doesn't stand as fact. Again, look at the examples I provided. Those are all common complaints about the players on this team and yet we're winning. We're winning far beyond expectations which suggests that these individuals might not be as bad as many of the posters here have labelled them.

No disrespect but I am not looking for your validation. I am saying there are plenty of posts and threads here with ridiculous trade proposals and hoopla over our players AS PROOF. Most of the time that enthusiasm is not shared outside our own bubble. Again...if you notice, I didn't say all and that is actually common with most team's fan base. There is nothing really wrong with that. It's driven by optimism and hope for your own team. I am guilty from time to time of it myself.

Also, I think you are discounting that the Suns are not the first team in history to overachieve. It happens in almost every sport every year. Sometimes teams surprise, are at the right transition period within a division etc. There are tons of reasons. However, that is a microcosm of what happens in sports. Said team overachieves, surprises people but whats next? Almost all those teams minus landing a Super Star come down to earth.

Don't misinterpret what I am saying. Nobody is taking ANYTHING away form this team or what the players have achieved this season. They are playing way above expectations.

It's probably to soon to say this is the start of something great or not. I hope it is but to start suggesting some of these guys on our team are the creme of the crop of the NBA is a bit premature. How many times in the NBA have we seen players overvalued, only to crash the next season or bomb after a trade? All because they were over hyped after one seasons achievements.

 

[Catlover]

No disrespect but I am not looking for your validation. I am saying there are plenty of posts and threads here with ridiculous trade proposals and hoopla over our players AS PROOF. Most of the time that enthusiasm is not shared outside our own bubble. Again...if you notice, I didn't say all.

Also, I think you are discounting that the Suns are not the first team in history to overachieve. It happens in almost every sport every year. Sometimes teams surprise, are at the right transition period within a division etc. There are tons of reasons. However, that is a microcosm of what happens in sports. Said team overachieves, surprises people but whats next? Almost all those teams minus landing a Super Star come down to earth.

Don't misinterpret what I am saying. Nobody is taking ANYTHING away form this team or what the players have achieved this season. They are playing way above expectations.

It's probably to soon to say this is the start of something great or not. I hope it is but to start suggesting some of these guys on our team are the creme of the crop of the NBA is a bit premature.

Sure there are and I think I've read every one of them, at least the ones that were in an actual trade thread or the trade forum. The majority of those suggestions fall right in line with what you're saying. Not my point though. Just because most of the posters that keep putting up trade scenarios are unrealistic doesn't mean that the majority of Suns fans echo this flaw. It's like saying the NBA All Star starters reflect the will of the people. Most of us NBA fans never vote, never put a checkmark by Yao Ming's name a year and a half after he scored his last bucket.

 

[Covert Rain]

Sure there are and I think I've read every one of them, at least the ones that were in an actual trade thread or the trade forum. The majority of those suggestions fall right in line with what you're saying. Not my point though. Just because most of the posters that keep putting up trade scenarios are unrealistic doesn't mean that the majority of Suns fans echo this flaw. It's like saying the NBA All Star starters reflect the will of the people. Most of us NBA fans never vote, never put a checkmark by Yao Ming's name a year and a half after he scored his last bucket.

My observations have been different and if you don't agree that is fine. There is only a handful of logical posters here that I think are level headed and logical about the state of the Suns. Even though I love most of the posters here and have a ton of respect for them, that doesn't mean the majority are a bit biased when it comes to evaluating the Suns. I found this to be true on every fan forum I am on regardless of team. Like I said...nothing wrong with it.

 

[Catlover]

My observations have been different and if you don't agree that is fine. There is only a handful of logical posters here that I think are level headed, logical and I have the utmost respect for. However, IMO that is far from the majority even though I like a ton of people who post here. I found this to be true on every fan forum I am on.

I really don't have a lot of experience with fan forums, I tried ESPN a few times back in the early 90's and I thought most of the posters were borderline insane. I've followed this forum off and on from its inception and I occasionally read RealGM and I've found both of them to be populated with far more reasonable people than my earlier experience suggested. That doesn't mean I agree with most of the people most of the time but it seems to me that most of the people try to apply reason and logic to the points they make. I just happen to think there is often more than one reasonable position and even polarizing issues can reveal merit at either end of the argument (although typically less so as you approach the extreme).

They say that the true measure of a person's intelligence is the extent to which he or she agrees with you. Obviously that isn't really true but we all have a tendency to run that way.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think many of us can agree that Morris is somewhere in the general neighborhood of slightly above average by NBA standards and that he's more than credible in the role of 7th or 8th man on a quality team. Maybe we can't number you among the signers to that particular agreement but at least we've edged you slightly upward from your earlier position that he had no real value (you said his ONLY value was his "alleged" positive effect on Keef).

He's very up and down. Some nights he's the best sub on the floor for either team and some nights he has little to no positive impact on the game. Much the same can be said about his brother, the biggest difference being that Markieff strung a few good games together early in the season and was recognized by the league for that performance. Since then, they may as well be twins for all the difference in their games.

7th man on a quality team? What's your definition of a quality team?

Other than being able to post up and attempt a fade away over smaller defenders and take heavily contested jumpers, what's Marcus that good at?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Phoenix fans tend to overvalue their own players. It's usually not until we get on the court or teams thumb their nose up at our trade proposals do we come down to earth.

I find its often the opposite. Fans, in general, tend to value players for what they WERE, not what the ARE. Veterans and former stars are overvalued, and younger players are often undervalued. Hence the interest in Pau Gasol. And the disregard for the improvement of the Morris twins this year.

 

[BC867]

I don't know if that's the precise ratio but it's close enough for this discussion. As for keeping them together, it's no more of a gimmick than any other aspect of a team that helps it win. Looking at this roster it's hard not to conclude that we have played better than our individual players would warrant. There has to be a reason or reasons for this synergy. I believe that their presence on the court and in the locker room is a contributing factor. Nothing gimmicky about that.

The gimmick I referred to was the signing of the 2nd twin.

On one hand, it has gotten us some publicity, which has little bearing on our W-L record.

On the other hand, the Front Office must now consider if trading one would have an adverse reaction on the twin left behind, which might occur among players who become close to a teammate, but not to the the same degree as a womb-mate.

A GM has a hard enough time balancing offense/defense, inside/outside, strong/finesse without having to worry about offending a player's relative.

 

[Catlover]

The gimmick I referred to was the signing of the 2nd twin.

On one hand, it has gotten us some publicity, which has little bearing on our W-L record.

On the other hand, the Front Office must now consider if trading one would have an adverse reaction on the twin left behind, which might occur among players who become close to a teammate, but not to the the same degree as a womb-mate.

A GM has a hard enough time balancing offense/defense, inside/outside, strong/finesse without having to worry about offending a player's relative.

I can see the possibility of a problem but I still don't see it as a gimmick. I think it's more like having a team that's built to play one way and a key player that can only play another (Gasol on the Lakers kind of thing). You have to make a call which way you want to go and the possibility exists that you might end up handcuffed but again, that's not my idea of a gimmick. I guess it's yours though so there we have it.

 

[Catlover]

7th man on a quality team? What's your definition of a quality team?

Other than being able to post up and attempt a fade away over smaller defenders and take heavily contested jumpers, what's Marcus that good at?

He plays decent defense, he's averaging 10 points per game while playing just 22 minutes and he's shooting 37% from three point range and 48% from the field. That's not out of line for the 2nd or 3rd man off the bench for any kind of team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think the Suns have cleaned out most of the excess baggage from their roster with the Gortat trade and buying out Beasley. Now Brown, Marshall and Beasley are gone. Also the Suns got nice value for Scola, Gortat and Dudley. The Suns are now in position to deal with reasonable contracts (with Okafor being an asset) to improve their roster further. It's great Suns fans are now in position to argue over the merits of the Morris twins and perhaps making ridiculous trade proposals when they were so bad before. The Suns have come a long way under McDonough and expectations have been set much higher.

 

[Covert Rain]

I find its often the opposite. Fans, in general, tend to value players for what they WERE, not what the ARE. Veterans and former stars are overvalued, and younger players are often undervalued. Hence the interest in Pau Gasol. And the disregard for the improvement of the Morris twins this year.

I don't disagree with some of what you are saying. Sometimes it's because they remember who they were, based on potential or who they hope they are.

In regards to the Morris twins, I too see improvement as I have with many players on the roster this year.

 

[Mainstreet]

I bet the trade rumors will really start to fly on Monday. It will be interesting. I worry that the Suns plan to trade Okafor for Gasol. I'd prefer acquiring a young player with some upside. However, if the trade is straight up, I can live with it.

 

[Rab]

Did anyone happen to hear David Aldridge on NBA TV today briefly mentioning the Gasol rumors? I had family over with kids running like crazy. The only part I could kind of make out is that Pau didn't care to moved to Phoenix, and would not want to be here long term. Also I thought I heard him say that Phoenix isn't crazy about trading for a rental.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[asudevil83]

my take on Gasol:
He's the jaded boyfriend who would come crawling back the the abusive girlfriend if she said yes.

The Lakers could dump Gasol and kick him to the curb, but if they came crawling back with some mooonay, then he'd be right back into their arms.

Chances are that if the suns give up anything more than a couple second rounders, they'll probably regret the move.

 

[Mainstreet]

I listened to Paul Coro's monthly chat this morning about the Suns. He seems to feel the Suns will stand pat at the trade deadline. However, he made it clear (as we all know) it only takes the right offer to change things. The link to the video and questions are below.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/20131222suns-chat-paul-coro.html?sf22850449=1

 

[devilalum]

I listened to Paul Coro's monthly chat this morning about the Suns. He seems to feel the Suns will stand pat at the trade deadline. However, he made it clear (as we all know) it only takes the right offer to change things. The link to the video and questions are below.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/articles/20131222suns-chat-paul-coro.html?sf22850449=1

I'd be fine with them doing nothing. There are always opportunities to make deals leading up to the draft.

 

[The Polecat]

Sports Illustrated trade deadline questions

The most valuable asset may turn out to be Luol Deng, if the underperforming Cavaliers don't believe they'll be able to re-sign him as a free agent this summer. Wouldn't he look good in the colors of the Suns, who could afford to trade for him and re-sign him, and for whom he would add defense and outstanding play in transition?

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nb...ne-questions-storylines-rumors/#ixzz2tcaDXKI9