Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

[nashman]

It's when they go completely to the ISO offense. You know it's the time for our stars to take us home - and they can't do it. The defense knows what's coming and mid range shots even when it's KD or Book shooting them aren't good shots.

I agree with you on Eubanks and his pathetic tips - but I don't really blame Nurk since he has the athleticism of a beached whale.

To be fair Nurk has been a rebounding beast lately come on, if anything it’s his inability to move quickly and defend…

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[Covert Rain]

Checked the Suns most effective lineups (removed all the small samples):

Offensive Rating
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 132
KD, Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen = 127.2
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Allen = 122.6
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Okogie = 121.9
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 120

*Note - in the 4th Quarter BY FAR the only effective lineup in the 4th is KD, Gordan, Nurk, Book, Allen = 107.7 which still sucks compared to quarters 1-3)

Defensive Rating (big drop off outside the first combo):
KD, Durant, Beal, Nurk, Booker, Allen = 114.9
KD, Beal, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 124.5
KD, Nurk, Book, Allen, Little = 127.6
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 129.8
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 153.3


Assist/TO Ratio (big drop off outside of first combo):
KD, Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen = 4.9
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Metu = 2.83
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 2.75
Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen, Metu = 2.5
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 2.43
Pace
KD, Nurk, Book, Allen, Little = 110.81
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 109.49
KD, Nurk, Allen, Okogie, Goodwin = 104.94
KD, Beal, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 103.4
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 101.37

Lineups Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

Ability to view statistics and advanced analytics for any combination of 5-man, 4-man, 3-man, or 2-man lineups that a team has played throughout the season. Lineup information dates back to the 2007-08 season.

www.nba.com

 

[Mainstreet]

Let's get Biz in here.

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[Phrazbit]

Checked the Suns most effective lineups (removed all the small samples):

Offensive Rating
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 132
KD, Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen = 127.2
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Allen = 122.6
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Okogie = 121.9
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 120

*Note - in the 4th Quarter BY FAR the only effective lineup in the 4th is KD, Gordan, Nurk, Book, Allen = 107.7 which still sucks compared to quarters 1-3)

Defensive Rating (big drop off outside the first combo):
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 153.3
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 129.8
KD, Nurk, Book, Allen, Little = 127.6
KD, Beal, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 124.5
KD, Durant, Beal, Nurk, Booker, Allen = 114.9

Assist/TO Ratio (big drop off outside of first combo):
KD, Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen = 4.9
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Metu = 2.83
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 2.75
Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen, Metu = 2.5
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 2.43

Pace
KD, Nurk, Book, Allen, Little = 110.81
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 109.49
KD, Nurk, Allen, Okogie, Goodwin = 104.94
KD, Beal, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 103.4
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 101.37

Lineups Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

Ability to view statistics and advanced analytics for any combination of 5-man, 4-man, 3-man, or 2-man lineups that a team has played throughout the season. Lineup information dates back to the 2007-08 season.

www.nba.com

Defensive rating is a stat you want a low number. That KD, Gordon, Book, Allen Eubanks is giving up 153 points per 100 possessions... yikes.

 

[Covert Rain]

Defensive rating is a stat you want a low number. That KD, Gordon, Book, Allen Eubanks is giving up 153 points per 100 possessions... yikes.

You also have to take some of this with a grain of salt. Why? Inserting Beal into the lineups has totally screwed things up. Some of the lineups they were using are no longer being used...at all. Plus, since Beal was inserted into the lineups the overall defensive rating has gone up with some of the lineups that without him were abysmal because they were shuttling different people in and out of the "5".

I thought this was more interesting than really having any value. We won't see any value in stats like this until Beal has likely been in about 20 games or so with some of those 5 man lineups.

 

[Ronin]

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[Superbone]

Top 10. Isn't that special. [/Church Lady]

 

[Mainstreet]

The announcers for the Suns-Lakers game on 1-11-2024, said the Suns were interested in adding an "athletic wing" instead of a point guard.

This is from Arizona Sports:

TNT’s Chris Haynes reported on Thursday’s national TV broadcast of the Suns against the Los Angeles Lakers that Phoenix would rather add an “athletic wing” than a point guard who would take the ball out of the hands of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal.

Report: Suns would rather add wing than point guard

TNT's Chris Haynes reported the Suns are not necessarily intent on adding a true point guard at the trade deadline.

arizonasports.com

 

[Phrazbit]

The announcers for the Suns-Lakers game on 1-11-2024, said the Suns were interested in adding an "athletic wing" instead of a point guard.

This is from Arizona Sports:

TNT’s Chris Haynes reported on Thursday’s national TV broadcast of the Suns against the Los Angeles Lakers that Phoenix would rather add an “athletic wing” than a point guard who would take the ball out of the hands of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal.

Report: Suns would rather add wing than point guard

TNT's Chris Haynes reported the Suns are not necessarily intent on adding a true point guard at the trade deadline.

arizonasports.com

I think we will probably have a chance to sign a serviceable backup point guard down the road, but an athletic wing who can play defense and not be a disaster on offense is the bigger need and those guys don't end up on the waiver wire.

 

[Hoop Head]

The announcers for the Suns-Lakers game on 1-11-2024, said the Suns were interested in adding an "athletic wing" instead of a point guard.

This is from Arizona Sports:

TNT’s Chris Haynes reported on Thursday’s national TV broadcast of the Suns against the Los Angeles Lakers that Phoenix would rather add an “athletic wing” than a point guard who would take the ball out of the hands of Devin Booker, Kevin Durant and Bradley Beal.

Report: Suns would rather add wing than point guard

TNT's Chris Haynes reported the Suns are not necessarily intent on adding a true point guard at the trade deadline.

arizonasports.com

We basically need our own version of Aaron Gordon. A big tweener forward who can defend, rebound, and knock down shots. I'm not sure who that is or how we'll get them but it would help a lot.

 

[BirdGangThing]

We basically need our own version of Aaron Gordon. A big tweener forward who can defend, rebound, and knock down shots. I'm not sure who that is or how we'll get them but it would help a lot.

lol our Aaron Gordon might be 7'2"

 

[Proximo]

lol our Aaron Gordon might be 7'2"

If he wasn't a twig and could be so easily pushed around I might agree - but that is not the case.

 

[Proximo]

We basically need our own version of Aaron Gordon. A big tweener forward who can defend, rebound, and knock down shots. I'm not sure who that is or how we'll get them but it would help a lot.

Yes, that is what we need.

Supposedly we are looking to trade for an athletic wing, which we also need.

I was thinking maybe Thybull would be an interesting target but he has a 10 million dollar salary so that makes things difficult.

 

[BirdGangThing]

The game is mental and not merely a test of skill

Like when we jumped on the bucks and the mavs in playoffs only for them to get their heads right and then ultimately come back to kick our purple asses

The game is mental

It's why Phil Jackson was such a great coach and why Kobe and MJ will go down as the two goats - it's why the best 3 point shooters in the world go ice cold and it's why DeAndre Ayton is no longer on this team

What we saw last night was a team not trying too hard - with each player doing what they do best while not being stingy with the rock thusly preventing the double team

The possibilities with this team believe it or not are still astronomical (probabilities not so much) but we have to get out of our own heads

There will be .500 teams making the playoffs again in the West this year - that's how tight it is - most fortunate for us because we haven't been right for some time

What I kinda noticed last night is Beal being a lone assassin at times - sure he had some nice assists but he's at heart a killer - I keep hearing people say he should be the 6th man which is a ridiculous rush to fix something that hasn't even started yet

Beal is a starter and an all star - and I want him with Book and KD to start together and finish together when necessary - but as we saw he can hold it down with KD and Book on the bench simultaneously - and that is huge

Did you see how much fun Beal was having last night - truly haven't seen a Sun smile that hard since Mikal or Payne - that energy is everything imo and is the opposite of the dark funk we've found ourselves in time and time again

Anyways - just one game but it was extra crispy with it being in LA and all - shows what we are indeed capable of

 

[Covert Rain]

We basically need our own version of Aaron Gordon. A big tweener forward who can defend, rebound, and knock down shots. I'm not sure who that is or how we'll get them but it would help a lot.

Yep, and we are not getting that kind of player without giving something up. Love the thought of getting our hands on someone like him though.

 

[Mainstreet]

We basically need our own version of Aaron Gordon. A big tweener forward who can defend, rebound, and knock down shots. I'm not sure who that is or how we'll get them but it would help a lot.

This is exactly what the Suns need. Hopefully some player gets tossed aside.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think we will probably have a chance to sign a serviceable backup point guard down the road, but an athletic wing who can play defense and not be a disaster on offense is the bigger need and those guys don't end up on the waiver wire.

It's hard to think of who might become available. The Suns could look to do a trade.

 

[Hoop Head]

Yep, and we are not getting that kind of player without giving something up. Love the thought of getting our hands on someone like him though.

We don't have many tradeable pieces. Little, Allen, Nurkic, and minimum salary guys. Like I've said for a while I'd be surprised if Allen is retained. He has a good contract and if we could swap him for a real forward then we almost have to do it.

 

[Hoop Head]

One guy who could be our Aaron Gordon that might be available and is on a cheap deal is Saddiq Bey in Atlanta. He's headed toward restricted free agency and is only making $4.5 million right now. Maybe Atlanta doesn't want to pay him, maybe he wants out, who knows. I'd swap Little for him in a heartbeat and include whatever 2nd rounders we have.

 

[AzStevenCal]

We don't have many tradeable pieces. Little, Allen, Nurkic, and minimum salary guys. Like I've said for a while I'd be surprised if Allen is retained. He has a good contract and if we could swap him for a real forward then we almost have to do it.

I think they keep Allen until/unless they realize a title is out of reach. I agree we lose him regardless after this season so you don't want to just waste that value - but if everything came together, he could be the difference between winning it all or not. Granted, that goes out the window if they really can find a better player in trade but I find though doubtful.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I think they keep Allen until/unless they realize a title is out of reach. I agree we lose him regardless after this season so you don't want to just waste that value - but if everything came together, he could be the difference between winning it all or not. Granted, that goes out the window if they really can find a better player in trade but I find though doubtful.

Why does everyone think we won’t resign Allen? Is it because of 2nd apron stuff or because y’all just think Ishbia won’t pony up?

 

[Proximo]

One guy who could be our Aaron Gordon that might be available and is on a cheap deal is Saddiq Bey in Atlanta. He's headed toward restricted free agency and is only making $4.5 million right now. Maybe Atlanta doesn't want to pay him, maybe he wants out, who knows. I'd swap Little for him in a heartbeat and include whatever 2nd rounders we have.

Yeah, I wanted to trade for him last year. But I really think someone will outbid us if he is really available.

 

[BirdGangThing]

Why does everyone think we won’t resign Allen? Is it because of 2nd apron stuff or because y’all just think Ishbia won’t pony up?

All we did all off season was s pray for someone that could run with the big 3 by hitting the 3

Now we have a top 5 3pt shooter in the league and folks already talking about a faux ficus - A FAUX FICUS

No way man Allen stays and I bet Ishbia feels the same way