Suns updates and discussion for the 2023-24 season

[Covert Rain]

Why does everyone think we won’t resign Allen? Is it because of 2nd apron stuff or because y’all just think Ishbia won’t pony up?

2nd Apron stuff. I think Ishbia will pay whatever the league will let him pay. We may resign him but you have to use the assets on the team to make any moves because you won't be a player in free agency for any higher impact guys. Meaning as long as they are committed to the big 3, there will be a ton of minimum salary player swapping year in and year out. All the rules are still unclear to me but the goal is to make it difficult to make trades or sign free agents. It will definitely give other teams a leg up on trades compared to what you can offer.

The Suns at the end of this season will be subject to:

• Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
• Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
• Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron
• No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
• Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
• Teams cannot include cash in a trade
• Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
• First round picks seven years out are frozen and can't be traded
• A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the 2nd apron for 3 out of 5 seasons
  
  

 

[Peter Sheldon]

Checked the Suns most effective lineups (removed all the small samples):

Offensive Rating
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 132
KD, Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen = 127.2
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Allen = 122.6
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Okogie = 121.9
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 120

*Note - in the 4th Quarter BY FAR the only effective lineup in the 4th is KD, Gordan, Nurk, Book, Allen = 107.7 which still sucks compared to quarters 1-3)

Defensive Rating (big drop off outside the first combo):
KD, Durant, Beal, Nurk, Booker, Allen = 114.9
KD, Beal, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 124.5
KD, Nurk, Book, Allen, Little = 127.6
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 129.8
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 153.3


Assist/TO Ratio (big drop off outside of first combo):
KD, Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen = 4.9
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Metu = 2.83
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 2.75
Beal, Nurk, Book, Allen, Metu = 2.5
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 2.43
Pace
KD, Nurk, Book, Allen, Little = 110.81
KD, Gordon, Book, Allen, Eubanks = 109.49
KD, Nurk, Allen, Okogie, Goodwin = 104.94
KD, Beal, Nurk, Allen, Diop = 103.4
KD, Gordon, Nurk, Book, Okogie = 101.37

Lineups Advanced | Stats | NBA.com

Ability to view statistics and advanced analytics for any combination of 5-man, 4-man, 3-man, or 2-man lineups that a team has played throughout the season. Lineup information dates back to the 2007-08 season.

www.nba.com

Simply fascinating! KD on virtually every list. And Book not on best offensive group unless in 4th qtr! That's really surprising. Big 3 shows up a lot in all categories. Also surprising. I thought maybe Beal would hurt defense. Also thought Okogie would be top of defensive list. Maybe because he doesn't play with starters much anymore. Also, my eye test would say Gordon shouldn't be on any of these lists, ...yet he is.

 

[Ronin]

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[Hoop Head]

All we did all off season was s pray for someone that could run with the big 3 by hitting the 3

Now we have a top 5 3pt shooter in the league and folks already talking about a faux ficus - A FAUX FICUS

No way man Allen stays and I bet Ishbia feels the same way

I don't think anyone wants him gone but it's just the reality of the situation. He's a luxury. He's a natural shooting guard and our 2 of our big 3 are also natural SG's so tying more money up, money we don't even have, to re-sign him this off-season isn't likely. We're taxed to hell and unless this team makes the finals or wins a title then I don't see Ishbia willing to go even deeper into the tax to re-sign a backup, basically, who doesn't play a position of need. He's also our most valuable trade chip, arguably our only trade chip. Since this team has underachieved thus far and we need help in our frontcourt more than we need another SG then he should be shopped to see if we can find that frontcourt help.

 

[Proximo]

Gambo saying on the radio that the Lakers game is the suns peak. If that is the case we don't have a chance in hell at the title.

I must be alone in thinking they did not play very well last night.

Gordon and Allen did next to nothing, neither did any of the bench beyond Bol. Nurk played badly. Only shot 14/39 from 3 and had some really pathetic turnovers, not to mention gave up way to many offensive rebounds as usual.

If that is the Suns peak we should trade KD now, because in no way is that good enough.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I don't think anyone wants him gone but it's just the reality of the situation. He's a luxury. He's a natural shooting guard and our 2 of our big 3 are also natural SG's so tying more money up, money we don't even have, to re-sign him this off-season isn't likely. We're taxed to hell and unless this team makes the finals or wins a title then I don't see Ishbia willing to go even deeper into the tax to re-sign a backup, basically, who doesn't play a position of need. He's also our most valuable trade chip, arguably our only trade chip. Since this team has underachieved thus far and we need help in our frontcourt more than we need another SG then he should be shopped to see if we can find that frontcourt help.

Starters aren't luxuries - he's our best 3 pt shooter not named KD and we need a sharpshooter to make this work - I don't see any trade happening at all amigo - like at all at all

 

[Proximo]

Starters aren't luxuries - he's our best 3 pt shooter not named KD and we need a sharpshooter to make this work - I don't see any trade happening at all amigo - like at all at all

There is going to be a trade - a minor one for a wing or power forward. Don't expect it to change much though.

 

[Superbone]

All we did all off season was s pray for someone that could run with the big 3 by hitting the 3

Now we have a top 5 3pt shooter in the league and folks already talking about a faux ficus - A FAUX FICUS

No way man Allen stays and I bet Ishbia feels the same way

And that's all that matters. I believe Ishbia will "pay that man."

 

[Proximo]

And that's all that matters. I believe Ishbia will "pay that man."

I think it all depends on how much assurance Grayson has given the Suns in his willingness to resign. If he has given none, considering our positional imbalance I could see him get traded, but If he has shown interest in resigning I doubt they would be interested in moving him.

 

[Joe Mama]

First, I don't know why anybody would listen to gambo except to get information about what the team might be doing personnel wise. This is not rocket science. We've been easily the most injured team in the NBA and everybody else has been relatively healthy outside of Memphis . The past few years that just hasn't been the case (Other team healthy).

The NBA is a whole is much better this season and we had an essentially brand new team that hasn't had a chance to really play together. Look at the LA clippers. They look like a disaster when James Harden first arrived. They are a top three team now.

 

[clyde2tw]

We basically need our own version of Aaron Gordon. A big tweener forward who can defend, rebound, and knock down shots. I'm not sure who that is or how we'll get them but it would help a lot.

I thought Oubre fitted the bill.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Gambo saying on the radio that the Lakers game is the suns peak. If that is the case we don't have a chance in hell at the title.

I must be alone in thinking they did not play very well last night.

Gordon and Allen did next to nothing, neither did any of the bench beyond Bol. Nurk played badly. Only shot 14/39 from 3 and had some really pathetic turnovers, not to mention gave up way to many offensive rebounds as usual.

If that is the Suns peak we should trade KD now, because in no way is that good enough.

Tough critique for a team that was up 31 at one point.

 

[Mainstreet]

Okay, I think Nurkic with his grandma and cat as his phone lock screen wins.

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[Ronin]

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[95pro]

I thought Oubre fitted the bill.

Maybe Oubre comes back to us next season.

 

[Yuma]

Okay, I think Nurkic with his grandma and cat as his phone lock screen wins.

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I like D Books! It's dope!

 

[Mainstreet]

I like D Books! It's dope!

I initially selected Booker, but a picture of Nurkic's grandma swayed me.

Now, if Booker showed a picture of one of his old cars as well, it would have been a tough call.

 

[Yuma]

I initially selected Booker, but a picture of Nurkic's grandma swayed me.

Now, if Booker showed a picture of one of his old cars as well, it would have been a tough call.

The old car was on the left. It was artfully changed. Same as the dog.

 

[Mainstreet]

The old car was on the left. It was artfully changed. Same as the dog.

What would grandma say if I changed my mind?

 

[nashman]

Can’t believe we really have kept a roster spot tied up with D Lee is he ever even gonna suit up? Just a decent player if he’s not gonna play find it hard to justify taking up a spot on a team looking to contend… weird…

 

[Hoop Head]

Can’t believe we really have kept a roster spot tied up with D Lee is he ever even gonna suit up? Just a decent player if he’s not gonna play find it hard to justify taking up a spot on a team looking to contend… weird…

He has a player option next season which means waiving him almost ensures he'll pick that up and get the free $2 million or whatever the minimum is. It's unlikely he declines it anyway but I can see the team wanting to see something from him before cutting him.

Personally, I thought he was a waste of a roster spot last season and an unnecessary signing this season. We added other shooters and those other shooters all bring more to the table than Lee does.

 

[Muggz]

Okay, I think Nurkic with his grandma and cat as his phone lock screen wins.

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Nurkic is smooth. That was actually Draymonds grandma and cat.
#killer

 

[Mainstreet]

I'd like to keep Damion Lee and waive/trade someone else if the medical prognosis is good.

He is a good 3-point shooter who is likely to get a lot of open looks.

 

[Proximo]

Tough critique for a team that was up 31 at one point.

That doesn't mean anything.

I know good basketball when I see it, and that wasn't it. At least not nearly good enough to win in the playoffs.

 

[Mainstreet]

That doesn't mean anything.

I know good basketball when I see it, and that wasn't it. At least not nearly good enough to win in the playoffs.

I already said during the game thread the Lakers didn't give their best effort.

The Lakers seemed disinterested but I will take the win.

However, if Gambo said this was the Suns at their peak, I disagree.

Barring injuries and the addition of a player or two, this team is not even close to their peak.