Suns vs Lakers Nov.20

[dodie53]

keep Amare any means possible.

@cheesebeef

any trade ideas for our mid-season fire sale?

 

[SirStefan32]

Wow... do you really require abombs approval?

A crystal ball is a crystal or glass ball believed by some people to aid clairvoyance. It is sometimes known as a shew stone.

Later, during central Europe's Medieval Period , seers, wizards, sorcerers, psychics,gypsies, fortune tellers, and all other types of diviners also used crystals to "see" into the PAST, present, or future.

Now with that being said... If I could use one and actually look into the past and see how things COULD have evolved had they not gotten Shaq, I would be glad to let you know. One scenario that comes to mind is Garnett. He was often talked about when trades came up. Who's to say the Lakers couldn't have used the cap space and players to make a trade for him? You don't think the Lakers would have been a championship team with him instead of Shaq? Again, I was simply stating we could never know. But I will exclude you from the "we" since you obviously know everything. Well, except for the definition of "crystal ball".

Man, Garnet or no Garnet, Lakers would have had to go through Shaq to get those rings, and I don't think it would have happened. I really think a lot of people are forgetting how dominant Shaq was. There was just nothing anybody could do to stop Shaq. While winning a championship is a team effort, Shaq played THE leading role in those efforts.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow... do you really require abombs approval?

approval? I just happen to think Abomb's a level headed Laker fan, which is a rarity because most of them, like you, are very Andrew-like about their team.

A crystal ball is a crystal or glass ball believed by some people to aid clairvoyance. It is sometimes known as a shew stone.

Later, during central Europe's Medieval Period , seers, wizards, sorcerers, psychics,gypsies, fortune tellers, and all other types of diviners also used crystals to "see" into the PAST, present, or future.

Now with that being said... If I could use one and actually look into the past and see how things COULD have evolved had they not gotten Shaq, I would be glad to let you know. One scenario that comes to mind is Garnett. He was often talked about when trades came up. Who's to say the Lakers couldn't have used the cap space and players to make a trade for him?

uh, why would the T-Wolves have ever traded what was an up and coming susperstar to the Lakers for what they had on that team? Can you even come up with any plausible idea here? Anything even remotely resembling reality?

You don't think the Lakers would have been a championship team with him instead of Shaq? Again, I was simply stating we could never know. But I will exclude you from the "we" since you obviously know everything. Well, except for the definition of "crystal ball".

common sense isn't knowing everything. and no, Garnett with a 19 year old Kobe Bryant doesn't win jack squat. And yes, since Abomb isn't Andrew-like towards everything Laker, I look to his opinion over yours.

 

[Cheesebeef]

keep Amare any means possible.

@cheesebeef

any trade ideas for our mid-season fire sale?

whatever we can get that would give us either draft picks or expiring deals come 2010 and while we're at it, fire Steve Kerr before he drafts any more *uckers, Dingleberrys, Tragics, Dopezes while giving away first rounders like they're going out of style.

 

[TJ]

Interesting stat I heard before the game today:

Suns have played 7 road games this season

Lakers have played 9 TOTAL games this season.

We all predicted that Nov. would be a tough month for the Suns, not just because of the competition but because of the amount of games we have to play. After this month, it will get a little easier and God willing our team will start to gel. There are still issues that need to be worked out, like turnovers and offensive play calling (tonight, they just looked lost on certain plays and werent assertive when their shots werent going in).

Lets wait a couple of months before we stick a fork in them.

 

[D-Dogg]

Assuming Kobe WILL win another ring is predicting the future which is quite bias and unreliable.

Shaq has 4, Kobe has 3 RIGHT NOW and that is all you can measure than on. You can't add on rings that don't exist yet...because no one knows.

And that was the guy's point. Counting should be done when the playing is done. Last I checked, both Shaq and Kobe are still playing, so the end result isn't known. For all we know, Shaq could be a cap move, go somewhere and pick up a cheap ring with 10 mpg. Who knows? That was his point...count when the outcome is known. Yelling about who has more when both are playing still and the trailing guy has a stacked team and obvious opportunity to win more is pretty stupid.

 

[SirStefan32]

whatever we can get that would give us either draft picks or expiring deals come 2010.

I agree, but I am really not sure what Suns have that any team out there wants. Who wants Raja Bell, and Steve Nash at this point in their careers?
Who wants Boris Diaw's contract? Who wants Barbosa?

 

[cobbler]

the only people who sound like asses are you for not giving Kobe credit and cobbler for not giving Shaq credit. you're like far-right/left wingers unable to give any ground to the middle wherein lies the truth of the issue.

To talk about me as if im at all like Andrew is an incredible insult.

When have I posted that I dont give Shaq credit for his contributions to our titles? That is just plain absurd. I have always said I am not a fan because he COULD HAVE BEEN the greatest center of all time and due to his work ethic he just dosent even get close. He could have had 6 or 7 rings and will most likely end up with 4. I played the game for many years and I never had much respect for players that coasted and didn't put the work in to reach their TRUE POTENTIAL. Simple as that.

 

[D-Dogg]

Man, Garnet or no Garnet, Lakers would have had to go through Shaq to get those rings, and I don't think it would have happened. I really think a lot of people are forgetting how dominant Shaq was. There was just nothing anybody could do to stop Shaq. While winning a championship is a team effort, Shaq played THE leading role in those efforts.

No doubt. Shaq was an absolute monster in those days. I don't know if he'd have gotten rings, but it would have been likely. The pairing with a strong guard like Kobe, great role players and a coach like Phil made it a no brainer...but early 2000s Shaq simply was unstoppable, even if he really didn't care much about becoming the best he could be. He was still lightyears better than the competition around him.

 

[ArizonaSportsFan]

Lets wait a couple of months before we stick a fork in them.

Where's the fun in that?

 

[D-Dogg]

And I am done with this little snip fest, develop some intelligence and then get back to me...

...

 

[Cheesebeef]

To talk about me as if im at all like Andrew is an incredible insult.

the truth hurts, don't it?

 

[cobbler]

Man, Garnet or no Garnet, Lakers would have had to go through Shaq to get those rings, and I don't think it would have happened. I really think a lot of people are forgetting how dominant Shaq was. There was just nothing anybody could do to stop Shaq. While winning a championship is a team effort, Shaq played THE leading role in those efforts.

Plenty of teams went through Shaq for titles Pre Lakers, Lakers before 2000 with Shaq, and his last year with the team. Yes he was dominant. No doubt about it. But as you stated earlier, its a team game. Was he the leading role? Sure? He dominated games and when it came to the 4th quarter (where he was often a liablilty) Kobe dominated. Heck, the Lakers don't win 2 of the 3 without Shaw or Horry. It's a team game. I appreciate what he HELPED bring us. I still think he underachieved. IMO

 

[cly2tw]

with Nash making Farmar and Fisher like allstar again, we won't beat the likes of NO, Lakers, Boston.

 

[D-Dogg]

Plenty of teams went through Shaq for titles Pre Lakers, Lakers before 2000 with Shaq, and his last year with the team. Yes he was dominant. No doubt about it. But as you stated earlier, its a team game. Was he the leading role? Sure? He dominated games and when it came to the 4th quarter (where he was often a liablilty) Kobe dominated. Heck, the Lakers don't win 2 of the 3 without Shaw or Horry. It's a team game. I appreciate what he HELPED bring us. I still think he underachieved. IMO

There was no dominant center to challenge him in the early 2000s. Nothing of merit. Especially not in the east. That's why in the West, Kobe was strong in the playoffs (dismantled the Spurs one season almost by himself in the 'offs) but when it came to the Finals, it was the ShaqShow. No competition.

 

[cobbler]

There was no dominant center to challenge him in the early 2000s. Nothing of merit. Especially not in the east. That's why in the West, Kobe was strong in the playoffs (dismantled the Spurs one season almost by himself in the 'offs) but when it came to the Finals, it was the ShaqShow. No competition.

No argument here. My point was its a team game. And even with all the pieces in place, they still didn't win until they brought Phil in. Lot's of pieces needed to win a ring...

 

[cobbler]

uh, why would the T-Wolves have ever traded what was an up and coming susperstar to the Lakers for what they had on that team? Can you even come up with any plausible idea here? Anything even remotely resembling reality?

Again all mighty Cheesebeef, if I had your crystal ball I would go back and consider the multitide or scenarios that could "possibly" happen and change the course of the league. Did the Wolves not trade Garnet for very little last year? Did the Grizzlies not trade Gasol to us for a cheap price? It happens.

common sense isn't knowing everything. and no, Garnett with a 19 year old Kobe Bryant doesn't win jack squat. And yes, since Abomb isn't Andrew-like towards everything Laker, I look to his opinion over yours.

And Shaq with a 19 year old Kobe didn't win jack squat either. So.... your argument for calling me an ass and comparing me to Andrew is that Abomb isn't Andrew-like over everything Laker and all this cause I was bagging on of all things.... a Laker? Hmmmmmm

I am so crushed you don't look to my opinion. Whatever shall I do?

 

[cobbler]

Have a good one everybody. Should be an interesting season.

Be good

 

[dodie53]

I agree, but I am really not sure what Suns have that any team out there wants. Who wants Raja Bell, and Steve Nash at this point in their careers?
Who wants Boris Diaw's contract? Who wants Barbosa?

nash (suns) for (cavs) wally's expiring contract,
diaw and LB for marbury's expiring contract.

bell to oklahoma for picks and cash

 

[Covert Rain]

Now with that being said... If I could use one and actually look into the past and see how things COULD have evolved had they not gotten Shaq, I would be glad to let you know. One scenario that comes to mind is Garnett. He was often talked about when trades came up. Who's to say the Lakers couldn't have used the cap space and players to make a trade for him?

In short not a chance. Back then KG was married to the T-Wolves and management for years had no interest in trading him ever. There is zero chance they Lakers could have gotten him. Especially, with not much to give back in return.

I agree, but I am really not sure what Suns have that any team out there wants. Who wants Raja Bell, and Steve Nash at this point in their careers?
Who wants Boris Diaw's contract? Who wants Barbosa?

Steve Nash has trade value. I think there are plenty of teams that probably feel like they are a PG away. The problem is will the salary match and is there something the Suns want in return.

He could have had 6 or 7 rings and will most likely end up with 4. I played the game for many years and I never had much respect for players that coasted and didn't put the work in to reach their TRUE POTENTIAL. Simple as that.

That's laughable. On one hand you say team sport on the other you pin the lack of 2 or 3 more rings on Shaq? You can't be serious. There are plenty of hard working NBA guys that never sniff a ring. The problems that team had were far more reaching then Shaq.

Heck, the Lakers don't win 2 of the 3 without Shaw or Horry. It's a team game. I appreciate what he HELPED bring us. I still think he underachieved. IMO

The Lakers would not have one a ring without Shaq. Period. He not only helped but he was one of the most dominate players at his position at that time. Simply stating he helped is the understatment of the thread. MJ helped the Bulls too. Ofcourse he didn't and couldn't do it by himself. However, to say that the Lakers would have one without one of the most dominate centers in the league on that team is rediculous.

PS. If the Suns true goal here is to win a ring, they better start making trades of some sort. This team can't get past the Lakers. If the Suns are truely committed this year they better get on the phone.

 

[cobbler]

That's laughable. On one hand you say team sport on the other you pin the lack of 2 or 3 more rings on Shaq? You can't be serious. There are plenty of hard working NBA guys that never sniff a ring. The problems that team had were far more reaching then Shaq.

I think you took my comment the wrong way. I didn't say we or the Lakers... I said he. Whatever team he was on.

 

[Bayless2Budinger]

Any positives from this game?

- Amares defensive game was pretty good. Not worried about his offense because he missed shots he wont miss 9 out of 10 times.

- Diaw was very aggressive with the ball. If we can get him matched up with someone a lot smaller in the post I say we feed Diaw with Amare making a cut on the weakside.

- Shaq and others took Bynum out of the game

- Bell played decent defense although it looked like Kobe was settling alot.

- Admunson had a good last few minutes.

I think thats about all.

 

[SirStefan32]

nash (suns) for (cavs) wally's expiring contract,
diaw and LB for marbury's expiring contract.

bell to oklahoma for picks and cash

Nash for Wally is interesting. I don't get the point of it if there is no draft pick involved. Suns can simply let Nash go at the end of the year- there is no need to trade for Wally.

Diaw and LB might be interesting to D'Antoni. Problem is (Besides the fact that Suns would need to throw in additional $5 mil or so to make the trade work) is the fact that Knicks are shedding salary and need Marbury off the books. Right now they are at almost $100 M in salary. Next year they will be around $70 M, and in 2010 they will be at $45M. If they trade Marbury for Diaw, Barbosa and whoever, they will be at $60M in 2010 and they can forget signing a big name free agent.

As far as Bell to Oklahoma for picks and cash, I really don't know why Oklahoma would do that. They are a young team in the process of rebuilding- no idea why they would want Raja Bell instead of picks and cash.

I am sitting here looking through every single team and for the life of me, I can not come up with a good reason anybody would want Nash, Bell, or Diaw/Barbosa combo). Frankly, I'd be happy to get any expiring contract and a draft pick for Nash. Same goes for Bell, Diaw and Barbosa. I just don't know who'd give it to us.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

went to the game last night and my main question is: does anyone know who the big dude in the lakers shaq jersey was sitting courtside last night?

as for the game - unfortunately the outcome that was kind of expected - the suns lost a lot when they went to their bench, they play terrible team defense and this isn't the nash i've grown use to watching

also half the suns crowd started to leave at about the 10 minute mark leaving the rest of us to be there with the pathetic waste of skins known as laker fans

nothing like a bunch of scrawny 5'8", 140 lb suburban gangstas wearing oversized jerseys showing the little guns with a hat cocked and pants sagging running around screaming about how "wez own this place"

 

[abomb]

went to the game last night and my main question is: does anyone know who the big dude in the lakers shaq jersey was sitting courtside last night?

We were sitting very far behind him lower level. We are almost positive it was Michael-Clark Duncan of Green Mile fame.


edit. It was, that is his wife.

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