Suns vs Lakers Nov.20

[dreamcastrocks]

The Suns need to bring Shaq off of the bench to get the offense going. Yep, I said it. Shaq can have all of the touches he wants with the second unit. Return to a faster style game but with more defense with Lopez in the middle.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

thanks - and that's definitely his wife as well

i was over in lexus club and that was my guess after I couldn't place a football player that would make sense

this guy is huge - i noticed him early on and saw him interacting with players and he was tall enough to be a ball player, but way too built for a guard

my wife didn't think that was him as she didn't see him next to anyone else large so she thought he looked too small

 

[Renz]

We were sitting very far behind him lower level. We are almost positive it was Michael-Clark Duncan of Green Mile fame.

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[SirStefan32]

The Suns need to bring Shaq off of the bench to get the offense going. Yep, I said it. Shaq can have all of the touches he wants with the second unit. Return to a faster style game but with more defense with Lopez in the middle.

Wow. Offense is running fine until Shaq sits. Once he goes out, they run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Yeah, let's take one thing that works off the table. Brilliant idea.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Wow. Offense is running fine until Shaq sits. Once he goes out, they run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Yeah, let's take one thing that works off the table. Brilliant idea.

You mean to tell me that we won't be able to run a successful offense without Shaq in the starting lineup? Please.

Our offensive 2nd unit needs definite work. It needs an identity. Shaq would do that. If you don't think that Nash/Amare on offense would work like it worked for the last 4 years, you're smokin something.

 

[nashman]

Well it would have been nice to see this game with Barbs. As well as Amare, Grant, and Steve not playing well at all. Missing a key speed scorer off the bench and some of your top guys have bad nights surprised this wasn't a blowout really. They were right with them most of the night even not playing well, not as worried as I was before last night.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Well it would have been nice to see this game with Barbs. As well as Amare, Grant, and Steve not playing well at all. Missing a key speed scorer off the bench and some of your top guys have bad nights surprised this wasn't a blowout really. They were right with them most of the night even not playing well, not as worried as I was before last night.

Barbosa missed most of training camp and a good chunk of the season. It's going to take a while before he gets anything going anyway.

 

[SirStefan32]

You mean to tell me that we won't be able to run a successful offense without Shaq in the starting lineup? Please.

Our offensive 2nd unit needs definite work. It needs an identity. Shaq would do that. If you don't think that Nash/Amare on offense would work like it worked for the last 4 years, you're smokin something.

If you're suggesting Shaq out of starting lineup in favor of Robin Lopez, then you are smoking something. I can not even believe that this is being suggested.
You want to put a guy who is good for 15 point, 8 boards, and shooting close to 60% on the bench!? Not to mention the biggest defensive presence in the paint this team has had in years.
Bench has no identity because outside of the starting five+Hill flat out sucks! The only thing you accomplish by putting Shaq in the 2nd unit is making the first unit worse. I mean, have you SEEN what first unit looks like when Shaq is out? Your approach is the equivalent of dealing with a sprained ankle by cutting off a foot. To say that it's an overreaction would be an understatement.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well it would have been nice to see this game with Barbs. As well as Amare, Grant, and Steve not playing well at all. Missing a key speed scorer off the bench and some of your top guys have bad nights surprised this wasn't a blowout really. They were right with them most of the night even not playing well, not as worried as I was before last night.

they were with them most of the night? They were down by 15 four minutes into the 3rd and never challenged them again. And the Lakers played like crap as well, but were still able to kill us on the road, even though they're still a work in progress as well.

as far as missing a "key 3rd scorer off the bench", stop living in the past. Barbs has been horrendous this year.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If you're suggesting Shaq out of starting lineup in favor of Robin Lopez, then you are smoking something. I can not even believe that this is being suggested.

I'm the first one to go on the record to say it. There will be a lot of people that join me by the end of the season.

You want to put a guy who is good for 15 point, 8 boards, and shooting close to 60% on the bench!? Not to mention the biggest defensive presence in the paint this team has had in years.

Yes. Shaq's 15/8/60% comes with a price. Poor spacing leading Steve Nash to be so ineffective that it is painful to watch. I would much rather go back to the P&R with Nash/Amare than to feed Shaq. Shaq can come off of the bench and completely dominate the other team's backup center. Porter has no idea how to incorporate Nash/Amare/Shaq at the same time. 1 good game out of 12 won't win in the playoffs.

Bench has no identity because outside of the starting five+Hill flat out sucks!

I think they are just as lost as Nash is. The entire team is lost besides Shaq. Unfortunately, he isn't good enough to lead a team anymore.

The only thing you accomplish by putting Shaq in the 2nd unit is making the first unit worse. I mean, have you SEEN what first unit looks like when Shaq is out?

Why? You mean the 2nd unit isn't capable enough to get the ball to Shaq? They would be worse? Seriously? You can't actually believe that. How hard is it to pass the ball to Shaq?

 

[mojorizen7]

The problem on this team personel-wise is the guard play....or lack thereof.
While i agree that Shaq becoming more of the go-to-guy than Amare isn't a good thing, bringing the big guy off the bench isn't the answer.
Raja Bell is junk as a starter. I don't care if some of you think he's playing great defense everynight....he's not playing Bruce Bowen shutdown defense(or anywhere close) nor is he scoring & therefor doesn't warrant a starting position at the 2 anymore.
Nash isn't even looking for his shot or getting himself open without the ball.He's shown me that he's either unwilling or unable to adapt to using the post as a first option.
Barbs could probably have helped had he been here thru training camp...maybe.
Tucker is Tucker.
Dragic is playing scared and can't shoot.
Singletary has shown me that he's the only guard on this roster that understands what the SUNS and Porter are trying to do on offense but he's got limited ability it seems.
Our guards don't fit the scheme. I still like the rest of the roster including Diaw's role.

 

[abomb]

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He got warned by security a couple of times for stepping onto and dancing on the court.

ALL the players and media know him and are friendly with him. Vlad came over and gave him a hug during the game and Screamin' A Smith spoke to him at length prior to tipoff.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Interesting stat I heard before the game today:

Suns have played 7 road games this season

Lakers have played 9 TOTAL games this season.

We all predicted that Nov. would be a tough month for the Suns, not just because of the competition but because of the amount of games we have to play. After this month, it will get a little easier and God willing our team will start to gel. There are still issues that need to be worked out, like turnovers and offensive play calling (tonight, they just looked lost on certain plays and werent assertive when their shots werent going in).

Lets wait a couple of months before we stick a fork in them.

So you're saying that the struggles are partly due to fatigue less than one month into the season? That's a great sign of things to come with a team full of geriatrics.

And if anything your point that the team needs more time to gel the playing more games hould've been a good thing when playing against a Laker team that is still working out the kinks as well.

It's time to face facts: barring some miraculous deadline deal (a laughable notion with Kerr at the helm and Sarver holding the purse strings) this team is not going to beat the Lakers or any other elite team. The talent just simply isn't there unles we put some of these guys in a time machine.

 

[mojorizen7]

they were with them most of the night? They were down by 15 four minutes into the 3rd and never challenged them again. And the Lakers played like crap as well, but were still able to kill us on the road, even though they're still a work in progress as well.

as far as missing a "key 3rd scorer off the bench", stop living in the past. Barbs has been horrendous this year.

To be fair, comparing the Lakers a WIP by fitting Bynum into what they do(and have done for years) and the SUNS a WIP by running an entirely different system under a new coaching staff and several new faces isn't valid.
The Laker players ALL know their role's & how to execute their system. Gasol was a natural fit & true genius... er...highway robbery...er...buddy system...er...shady. LOL.

 

[SirStefan32]

The problem on this team personel-wise is the guard play....or lack thereof.
While i agree that Shaq becoming more of the go-to-guy than Amare isn't a good thing, bringing the big guy off the bench isn't the answer.
Raja Bell is junk as a starter. I don't care if some of you think he's playing great defense everynight....he's not playing Bruce Bowen shutdown defense(or anywhere close) nor is he scoring & therefor doesn't warrant a starting position at the 2 anymore.
Nash isn't even looking for his shot or getting himself open without the ball.He's shown me that he's either unwilling or unable to adapt to using the post as a first option.
Barbs could probably have helped had he been here thru training camp...maybe.
Tucker is Tucker.
Dragic is playing scared and can't shoot.
Singletary has shown me that he's the only guard on this roster that understands what the SUNS and Porter are trying to do on offense but he's got limited ability it seems.
Our guards don't fit the scheme. I still like the rest of the roster including Diaw's role.

You are exactly right. The Suns guards are just terrible. To be fair, two of them are rookies, one of them has been distracted with personal/ family issues, and one has been hurt, but nevertheless, guards are just terrible.

 

[TJ]

So you're saying that the struggles are partly due to fatigue less than one month into the season? That's a great sign of things to come with a team full of geriatrics.

And if anything your point that the team needs more time to gel the playing more games hould've been a good thing when playing against a Laker team that is still working out the kinks as well.

It's time to face facts: barring some miraculous deadline deal (a laughable notion with Kerr at the helm and Sarver holding the purse strings) this team is not going to beat the Lakers or any other elite team. The talent just simply isn't there unles we put some of these guys in a time machine.

With a team full of geriatrics, it is not a good starting schedule for the season. Meanwhile, the Lakers have had plenty of time to rest between games. Take into consideration that they have only played two sets of back-to-backs, while we have played four, which includes that four game east coast swing. IIRC, the Lakers had somewhat of a favorable schedule like this two seasons ago where they had plenty of time to rest and lots of home games to boot, but ended up finishing with the 7th seed in the West. I'm not saying that the Lakers are overrated, I'm saying that by comparing/contrasting schedules, you can see that we have had to work a little harder this season thus far. I do concede that the road to the west travels through L.A.

Visions of NBA Championship trophies aren't dancing in my head this season. Anyone with any sort of basketball prowess can see that there are major kinks in our game. We have slowed the pace down, yet are still committing 15-20 t.o.s/game. We are still relying heavily on jump shots and 3 pointers to run teams out of the building. Seems like the ghost of D'Antoni still haunts the Suns locker room. Their strength right now is to pound the ball into the paint with Shaq and STAT. Once they finally figure this out, they can spread the floor out a little more.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

The Laker players ALL know their role's & how to execute their system. Gasol was a natural fit & true genius... er...highway robbery...er...buddy system...er...shady. LOL.

Have you seen what Marc Gasol has been doing this year? Hell, at this point I would've rather seen us trade Marion to the Lakers for him and Kwame instead of Shaq as our future would look much more bright.

Memphis is a good PG away from being a very forimdable team for many years with Gay, Mayo, and Gasol in the fold. What exactly are we?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

With a team full of geriatrics, it is not a good starting schedule for the season.

So you'd rather see an old team stack a bunch of games in close proximity of each other at the end of the season when Mother Nature and an 82 game schedule has taken a toll on their bodies as opposed to the beginning of the season when they are still relatively fresh from the offseason? Sorry, but that makes no sense.

 

[SirStefan32]

I'm the first one to go on the record to say it. There will be a lot of people that join me by the end of the season.

Well good for you. Here is a cookie.

Yes. Shaq's 15/8/60% comes with a price. Poor spacing leading Steve Nash to be so ineffective that it is painful to watch. I would much rather go back to the P&R with Nash/Amare than to feed Shaq. Shaq can come off of the bench and completely dominate the other team's backup center. Porter has no idea how to incorporate Nash/Amare/Shaq at the same time. 1 good game out of 12 won't win in the playoffs.

No. Steve Nash is leading Steve Nash to be ineffective. Steve Nash was a freaking MVP. He needs to stop being a little whiny bitch and do what is expected from him. Newsflash- Steve Nash is old, has a bad back and can not carry any team on his shoulders anymore. Steve Nash, is in fact what John Stockton was his last 2-3 years. He simply can not be any more than that. I like the guy, I think he is the best damn point guard since Magic Johnson and John Stockton, but he can not lead the team to victory.

It is Steve Nash's job to incorporate Shaq and Amare. That mean running a pick and roll as usualwith Shaq on the weak side, and at other times, dumping the ball to Shaq and then spotting up for a three or cutting to the basket. You put Shaq on the bench and you're going to have the same problem you had with D'Antoni. Suns will get destroyed in the paint. Bogut looked like Shaq playing against the Suns before Shaq came to town. Do you know what Bynum and Gasol would to do the Suns if Shaq weren't there?

Why would you want Shaq to dominate other team's second unit Center when he can dominate their first unit? That's no different than having Steve Nash dominate 2nd unit point guard or Amare doing the same thing with the 2nd unit power forwards. It is absurd.

Is it Shaq's fault that Amare is missing point black layups when Shaq serves him a basketball on a silver platter one foot away from the basket with no Laker within 5 feet of him? Is it Shaq's fault that Nash is bricking wide open shots? Is it Shaq's fault that nobody outside of Diaw and Barnes is cutting to the basket? Is Shaq making Steve and Raja run around like headless chickens?

You have a clear advantage on the Center position against just about any team in the league. You simply don't give that up. You exploit it, you don't give it up.

I think they are just as lost as Nash is. The entire team is lost besides Shaq. Unfortunately, he isn't good enough to lead a team anymore.

They are not "lost". They are flat out terrible. Boris Diaw is not "lost". He is the smartest player on this team. His basketball IQ is twice that of Amare. He just doesn't give a crap. Singlettary and Dragic know exactly what porter is trying to do, but they are just two rookies who are not any good yet and who have no confidence. Barbosa's mind is simply not on basketball, and I can't blame him for it, but the bottom line is that even when his mind is in the game, he is just not that good. Lopez is a rookie, and Amudson is a slightly improved Bo Outlaw. Bench is horrible, bench is crap. Moving some of that crap to first unit is not the answer.

Why? You mean the 2nd unit isn't capable enough to get the ball to Shaq? They would be worse? Seriously? You can't actually believe that. How hard is it to pass the ball to Shaq?

2nd unit is not capable of wiping their own asses. They are incompetent at this point and they will be incompetent no matter who is on the floor with them. You double Shaq, stay on Hill, and you just stopped the DCR's 2nd unit. I am sorry, but outside of Nash, Amare, Shaq, and to some degree Hill, Barnes and Diaw, this team is TERRIBLE.
Shaq, Amare, Diaw, Hill and Barnes are good enough to make out front court among the best in the league. Our back court consists of one good, but aging player (Nash), one average player (Bell), two rookies (Singletary and Dragic), erratic and unstable Barbosa, and Tucker who is virtually unknown at this point.

Half of our team is crap. No matter how you move and mix that crap, it is still going to stink. Without a capable shooting guard and a competent back up point, this team is going nowhere. Whether you dump the ball to Shaq in the low post or run a pick and roll with Nash and Amare is irrelevant. Either, a trade happens, Bell, Nash, Diaw and Barbosa pull their heads out of their asses and play like they are supposed to, or this team is getting swept in the first round of playoffs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

It is funny how two people can see their team in polar opposites.

I'll just leave it at that because it isn't worth getting worked up over.

 

[DeAnna]

they play terrible team defense

NO!! Say it ain't so! And most people said it was a product of last year's poor coaching staff.

But I like the way Shaq has taken over the team, LoL

After Lakers center Andrew Bynum posted up Amaré Stoudemire, Shaquille O'Neal got off the bench, walked by Porter and said, "I'm going in." Three minutes later, the Suns led again

 

[DeAnna]

I can't reconcile the fact that a bench that consists of (multiple all-star) Grant Hill, (most improved player) Boris Diaw, (sixth man of the yr) Barbosa could be crap. There's got to be more to it than that.

 

[SirStefan32]

I can't reconcile the fact that a bench that consists of (multiple all-star) Grant Hill, (most improved player) Boris Diaw, (sixth man of the yr) Barbosa could be crap. There's got to be more to it than that.

Well, bench looks better than it is. Hill, while one of my all-time favorite players, is old and simply can not carry a lineup. When you put him in the starting lineup where he can just be one of the five guys, he plays extremely well. He is simply not able to be "the man" at this point is his career.

Diaw had one excellent season, but beyond that, he is pretty bad. I have never seen a player with so much talent and so little desire and drive to be successful. I honestly believe Diaw could be an all star in this league. There is nobody in this league who has a basketball IQ of Boris Diaw, outside of Tim Duncan, perhaps. He just doesn't act like an NBA player. He acts like a guy who plays in a local LA Fitness league just to stay in shape and hang out with his buddies.

Barbosa is what he is- he is a one-dimensional player who has a tendency to choke when it matters. He is a nice player to have because when he is on, he can score 10 point in 2 minutes and turn the game around. If he is not on, he is useless and is the complete opposite of Diaw when it comes to basketball IQ. On top of all that, his mind is elsewhere this year.

I really think that the main problem with the bench, though, is lack of a real point guard. Hill is a point=forward who simply can not carry a lineup at this stage is his career. I think bench would look much better if we had a competent back up point guard running the show.
I really like our rookies Dragic and especially Singletary. Both of them have an understanding of the game and both of them play hard, but they are simply not ready to carry a second unit on their backs. I like the fact that Porter is giving them playing time and an opportunity to develop. Perhaps by the time playoffs roll around, they will be able to make a difference. Unfortunately, at this point, they are not.

Diaw has an opportunity here. He is good enough to rip anybody on any team's second unit to shreds. He is good enough for 15/7/5 off the bench every night. However, he just doesn't seem interested.

I don't know, it is frustrating to watch- Hill, Diaw and Barbosa should be a lot better than they are as a unit.

 

[nashman]

Its way to early to be conceding anything this year. We have a ways to go before this team even functions as well as it can. While the Lakers are good they are far from unbeatable.

 

[TJ]

So you'd rather see an old team stack a bunch of games in close proximity of each other at the end of the season when Mother Nature and an 82 game schedule has taken a toll on their bodies as opposed to the beginning of the season when they are still relatively fresh from the offseason? Sorry, but that makes no sense.

I dont think you understand what I'm saying. I agree with you 100%. Go back and read my posts again