Tankathon Rankings

[slinslin]

Biggest game of the season,

Brooklyn is playing the Lakers on Tuesday also.

 

[leclerc]

Let's go for the L!

 

[BC867]

Knight is still not practicing.

Len is out vs Brookyln

Chandler might come back vs Brooklyn.

Why is Len out now? One and done?

He really hasn't proved that, despite his potential skills, he could ever be counted on to be a consistent starting Center.

 

[Phrazbit]

Why is Len out now? One and done?

He really hasn't proved that, despite his potential skills, he could ever be counted on to be a consistent starting Center.

This is what tanking looks like. Any boo-boo to a player who could potentially cause us to win will put them in a suit. Len may or may not have an injury worth keeping him on the bench, but given the vagaries of the injury reports (not just Len but everyone besides Bledsoe) and that him heading to the trainers room coincides exactly with Chandler's return... I think most of these guys would be playing if we were trying to actually win games.

 

[Catlover]

This is what tanking looks like. Any boo-boo to a player who could potentially cause us to win will put them in a suit. Len may or may not have an injury worth keeping him on the bench, but given the vagaries of the injury reports (not just Len but everyone besides Bledsoe) and that him heading to the trainers room coincides exactly with Chandler's return... I think most of these guys would be playing if we were trying to actually win games.

I'm not sure why he's out tonight but they said in our last game that Len had sprained his ankle the day before in practice. There's a good chance we'd be doing the same thing even if we weren't tanking.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure why he's out tonight but they said in our last game that Len had sprained his ankle the day before in practice. There's a good chance we'd be doing the same thing even if we weren't tanking.

Len says he will play tonight. We shall see.

 

[BC867]

Len says he will play tonight. We shall see.

He's playing. Off the bench.

 

[Catlover]

Len says he will play tonight. We shall see.

He's playing. Off the bench.

And that's why I still say we aren't tanking. Yet. Because we haven't needed to. I think every one of these injuries has been legitimate. Maybe once or twice a player could have played through that injury but that happens with teams that aren't tanking too. We're just this bad, in reality. That's what happens when you're suiting up mostly bench players and D League type talent.

 

[JCSunsfan]

And that's why I still say we aren't tanking. Yet. Because we haven't needed to. I think every one of these injuries has been legitimate. Maybe once or twice a player could have played through that injury but that happens with teams that aren't tanking too. We're just this bad, in reality. That's what happens when you're suiting up mostly bench players and D League type talent.

Oh good grief. We are tanking.

 

[Mainstreet]

Oh good grief. We are tanking.

JC, you should have watched the game tonight. Only a late rally by the Suns got them close. They were down by 25 points to the Nets who ended their 7 game road losing streak to the Suns.

 

[Catlover]

Oh good grief. We are tanking.

Tell me how. Facts. We're not interested in winning, I agree with that. But I don't think we've had to do anything to create losses. Our guys are injured. It's the only conclusion I can draw watching the pregame and postgame shows along with the actual games.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yeah, we're definitely tanking.

This IS what happens when you end up using your bench and guys from the D-League for most of your minutes, which pretty much only happens when teams are tanking.

We've only won 2 games since mid December, a pace that, if it had been sustained for a full season, would make them the worst team in history. We make zero adjustments in game, the team virtually never changes up their playing style, they're allowed to make mistakes that you'd be ashamed of in preseason and they don't get sent to the bench... and most of the guys are playing with the intensity of a preseason game.

I don't know how you could watch this team and think they're not tanking.

 

[Catlover]

Yeah, we're definitely tanking.

This IS what happens when you end up using your bench and guys from the D-League for most of your minutes, which pretty much only happens when teams are tanking.

We've only won 2 games since mid December, a pace that, if it had been sustained for a full season, would make them the worst team in history. We make zero adjustments in game, the team virtually never changes up their playing style, they're allowed to make mistakes that you'd be ashamed of in preseason and they don't get sent to the bench... and most of the guys are playing with the intensity of a preseason game.

I don't know how you could watch this team and think they're not tanking.

Because I think we suck. How can someone watch them and think otherwise. Where's this talent that we're not playing? Teletovic is our best player most nights and he's getting good minutes. And of course they aren't making changes or reacting to what the other team does, we're grossly overmatched. We had the same complaints back when we thought we were going to make a run to the postseason. Unless you believe that our injured players are not injured then the talent mismatch explains everything. And listening to Steve, Eddie, Tom, Tom and Annie leads me to believe that these guys are really injured.

The only way I think we're tanking is the decision to replace Jeff with an untested assistant and the fact we didn't sell our future back in December in an attempt to remain relevant. But the writing was on the wall. Tanking was/is in our best interest. If we start to look like we can win some games I'm quite sure we'll mess with the rotation enough to prevent it but I don't see that happening with this mess of a roster.

 

[Catlover]

Just so it's clear, I think we long ago decided to tank. We just haven't had to do anything to make it happen, life took care of that for us.

 

[SirStefan32]

I agree with Catlover. Suns are just an awful team.

 

[Chaplin]

I agree with Catlover. Suns are just an awful team.

Agreed. It just seems unlikely to me that any player will purposely play badly to lose.

 

[slinslin]

Maybe but the players know that the season is lost and might have given up on this season.

 

[Catlover]

Maybe but the players know that the season is lost and might have given up on this season.

I'm sure it's difficult to get up for games when you know you have little to no chance but their futures (to varying degrees) are also riding on how they play. Endorsements, ego and future contracts will help motivate them but I suspect you can never consistently get your best from a team that doesn't believe they can win. But again, that's not tanking, that's just life.

 

[Phrazbit]

Agreed. It just seems unlikely to me that any player will purposely play badly to lose.

The players are not playing badly on purpose, but the organization is setting the players up to lose. Not bothering to adjust, not bothering to come up with a game plan to match your players, not using rotations that make any sense or (especially) that are based on merit.

We're tanking. This is exactly what tanking looks like.

 

[chickenhead]

Big win/loss against the Nets. It really does look like Phoenix, LAL, and Philly are solidifying as the bottom three. The two games against the Lakers next month will be so strange as we swallow our "Beat LA" chants. If the Suns manage to lose both and make up another loss somewhere, they'll have the bizarro tie-breaker against LA.

 

[Catlover]

The players are not playing badly on purpose, but the organization is setting the players up to lose. Not bothering to adjust, not bothering to come up with a game plan to match your players, not using rotations that make any sense or (especially) that are based on merit.

We're tanking. This is exactly what tanking looks like.

How can you tell the difference? I read the same complaints back in November and December, so what's new? And do you really believe that there is a rotation or a game plan or an adjustment that could overcome this incredible talent gap between us and the next worst team in the NBA? IMO, if you had swapped out the team we started the season with this roster on day one of the season and staffed it with the greatest coaching group ever assembled I doubt they'd win 10 games. Even with a full training camp I doubt they'd win 20.

 

[Joe Mama]

How can you tell the difference? I read the same complaints back in November and December, so what's new? And do you really believe that there is a rotation or a game plan or an adjustment that could overcome this incredible talent gap between us and the next worst team in the NBA? IMO, if you had swapped out the team we started the season with this roster on day one of the season and staffed it with the greatest coaching group ever assembled I doubt they'd win 10 games. Even with a full training camp I doubt they'd win 20.

Completely agree. This was not a deep team and they've been decimated by injuries. I don't think there's any adjustment they could make right now to be any better.

Joe

 

[Phrazbit]

How can you tell the difference? I read the same complaints back in November and December, so what's new? And do you really believe that there is a rotation or a game plan or an adjustment that could overcome this incredible talent gap between us and the next worst team in the NBA? IMO, if you had swapped out the team we started the season with this roster on day one of the season and staffed it with the greatest coaching group ever assembled I doubt they'd win 10 games. Even with a full training camp I doubt they'd win 20.

Yes, I can see a difference. I can't really believe we're having this conversation.

I agree, whats left of the team is very bad, but do you honestly think they're "worst all time" bad? Do you think it makes sense that Leuer has been banished from the rotation? Knight supposedly strained his groin... nearly 2 months ago, I think we're all expecting him to miss the entire season at this point, does that seem legit? Yeah, the roster is dreadful right now, and that is by design, because they're tanking.

I don't know what to say. If you don't think they're tanking then I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise, but to me this is the definition of tanking. I don't think I've seen tanking this obvious since the Warriors torpedoed their season in 2012.

 

[Catlover]

Yes, I can see a difference. I can't really believe we're having this conversation.

I agree, whats left of the team is very bad, but do you honestly think they're "worst all time" bad? Do you think it makes sense that Leuer has been banished from the rotation? Knight supposedly strained his groin... nearly 2 months ago, I think we're all expecting him to miss the entire season at this point, does that seem legit? Yeah, the roster is dreadful right now, and that is by design, because they're tanking.

I don't know what to say. If you don't think they're tanking then I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise, but to me this is the definition of tanking. I don't think I've seen tanking this obvious since the Warriors torpedoed their season in 2012.

It seems very legit if you were actually watching the game against the Pacers on January 19th when he came up hobbling after trying to slam the ball. His agent sent him to a different specialist a couple days later who determined it was a sports hernia (Jan 22). A sports hernia can often take 6 to 8 weeks of physical therapy to resolve. He could have continued to try and play through it but anyone that watched him play the 3 weeks prior to that slam attempt knows that we really aren't missing that player. And Leuer's injury problems started before we lost Knight when we were still talking playoffs.

I think we're tanking, I just don't think we've had to do anything to lose games. If your argument rests partially on exaggerated or phony injuries by Leuer and Knight all I can say is, even with them we are clearly the least talented team in the NBA. And while Knight might actually play through this injury if we were in a heated battle for the playoffs, teams like the Spurs would be resting him so that he could be at 100% when they needed him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ok. Are we dealing with injuries like we want to make the playoffs? no. Players are out long term and others are sitting for every boo boo imaginable.

Did we fire our coach so we could make a playoff run? no. We hired a guy to develop the young talent. In fact, we probably fired Horny because he just found it hard to engage when the team is obviously tanking.

Do the substitution patterns look like we are trying to win every game? no. We are playing young players extended minutes and playing them at experimental positions.

Does the body language of the players on the bench look like they are going for all the wins they can get? Absolutely not. They look like preseason. They are going for individual development, which is fine.

Did we make moves at the deadline that look like we are trying to win every game we can? No. We shipped off Markieff for cap fodder and a pick. No effort to pick up a vet player (which we probably could have gotten) that could get a win or two.

Are we signing free agents or buyouts like we are trying to win now? No. We are experimenting with D-League players and buyouts who are young and might have some long term potential. We are not looking at any vets that could help get some wins now (like Joe Johnson or Anderson Varajao).

Inescapable conclusion: We are tanking.