The 2018-2019 Around the NBA thread

[Phrazbit]

I probably missed the conversation, but if Philly is serious about moving Fultz how about Fultz for our 1st round pick top 7 protected, Bender and Okobo, or Melton if they prefer him instead.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I probably missed the conversation, but if Philly is serious about moving Fultz how about Fultz for our 1st round pick top 7 protected, Bender and Okobo, or Melton if they prefer him instead.

No. Fultz is a bust. That is too much to give. We either have to give up a player of value or let Fultz use up $8.5 million of our free agency money for this summer. The only way it would be possible is if Philly somehow took Anderson as part of the deal and that is not happening.

I just do not see the pieces matching up. We would be giving up signing a quality FA pg next summer in order to trade something away to get Fultz now. It just does not make sense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I probably missed the conversation, but if Philly is serious about moving Fultz how about Fultz for our 1st round pick top 7 protected, Bender and Okobo, or Melton if they prefer him instead.

I don't think I'd go that high. Switch out the Milwaukee pick for ours, that's the most I'd give. Part of the return they get for trading Fultz is getting rid of his guaranteed salary which is almost 10M next year. It might not be enough but between his salary and his wrist/shoulder/head problems, it's all I'd consider.

 

[Phrazbit]

No. Fultz is a bust. That is too much to give. We either have to give up a player of value or let Fultz use up $8.5 million of our free agency money for this summer. The only way it would be possible is if Philly somehow took Anderson as part of the deal and that is not happening.

I just do not see the pieces matching up. We would be giving up signing a quality FA pg next summer in order to trade something away to get Fultz now. It just does not make sense.

I think he's got the yips. And if Koko can teach Rubio to shoot he can probably go a long way towards fixing Fultz.

The biggest concern for me is if his shoulder really has some chronic problem and it's not in his head.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Anderson and Ariza for Fultz and Chandler works according to the Trade Checker. I suppose I would throw in Melton or the Milwaukee pick.

The appeal of that deal to me is that it gives us about $7 million more free agency space this summer.

Chandler is near useless I think. I would even hesitate on this. The Suns are improving. I would not want to set that back.

Philly will want a lot more. But to me there is about a 15% chance Fultz develops into a serviceable player. So it’s just a big gamble.

 

[Phrazbit]

Anderson and Ariza for Fultz and Chandler works according to the Trade Checker. I suppose I would throw in Melton or the Milwaukee pick.

The appeal of that deal to me is that it gives us about $7 million more free agency space this summer.

Chandler is near useless I think. I would even hesitate on this. The Suns are improving. I would not want to set that back.

Philly will want a lot more. But to me there is about a 15% chance Fultz develops into a serviceable player. So it’s just a big gamble.

Yeah, they'd want more, you're giving them nothing but a bunch of dead money. If you don't want him you don't want him, but that trade is obviously terrible, they're taking on like 40 million in salary, sending away less and giving up on a 20 year old who was just the top pick.

A straight up swap of Fultz and Bender is more realistic... despite not being even slightly realistic.

 

[Hoop Head]

It will most likely cost 2 picks for Fultz, or a solid prospect and a 1st round pick. Philly still owes Boston a pick, they're not taking any less than what they still owe for him so I think it's pointless to try and trade for him. I would honestly be a little surprised if they would accept JJ and the Bucks pick, since the Bucks pick won't fall in the lottery unless Giannis gets hurt. Even though Fultz might want a fresh start, Philly is in the perfect position to wait on him so I don't see them rushing to make a move. Fultz hasn't actually come out demanding a trade either. From what I've heard he said he would like a fresh start and that's different than asking for a trade. Considering what he's been through already it's not surprising he thinks that way either.

 

[Finito]

It will most likely cost 2 picks for Fultz, or a solid prospect and a 1st round pick. Philly still owes Boston a pick, they're not taking any less than what they still owe for him so I think it's pointless to try and trade for him. I would honestly be a little surprised if they would accept JJ and the Bucks pick, since the Bucks pick won't fall in the lottery unless Giannis gets hurt. Even though Fultz might want a fresh start, Philly is in the perfect position to wait on him so I don't see them rushing to make a move. Fultz hasn't actually come out demanding a trade either. From what I've heard he said he would like a fresh start and that's different than asking for a trade. Considering what he's been through already it's not surprising he thinks that way either.

Your really over valuing Fultz. Nobody is going to give them anything of value for him

 

[JCSunsfan]

It will most likely cost 2 picks for Fultz, or a solid prospect and a 1st round pick. Philly still owes Boston a pick, they're not taking any less than what they still owe for him so I think it's pointless to try and trade for him. I would honestly be a little surprised if they would accept JJ and the Bucks pick, since the Bucks pick won't fall in the lottery unless Giannis gets hurt. Even though Fultz might want a fresh start, Philly is in the perfect position to wait on him so I don't see them rushing to make a move. Fultz hasn't actually come out demanding a trade either. From what I've heard he said he would like a fresh start and that's different than asking for a trade. Considering what he's been through already it's not surprising he thinks that way either.

They would jump at JJ and the Bucks pick. If his rookie option was up right now, they would not exercise it.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

They would jump at JJ and the Bucks pick. If his rookie option was up right now, they would not exercise it.

https://sports.yahoo.com/report-markelle-fultz-no-longer-76ers-long-term-plans-013108592.html

 

[PDXChris]

No. Fultz is a bust. That is too much to give. We either have to give up a player of value or let Fultz use up $8.5 million of our free agency money for this summer. The only way it would be possible is if Philly somehow took Anderson as part of the deal and that is not happening.

I just do not see the pieces matching up. We would be giving up signing a quality FA pg next summer in order to trade something away to get Fultz now. It just does not make sense.

Speaking of busts, look at this track record. I get that teams miss all the time, but to whiff on 4 of the last 6 picks so badly is not good.

2017 pick 1 Markelle Fultz BUST
2016 pick 1 Ben Simmons Missed full season, but real deal
2015 pick 3 Jahlil Okafor BUST, not on team
2014 pick 3 Joel Embiid Missed better part of two seasons and injury still concern, but stud when healthy
2013 pick 11 Michael Carter-Williams BUST, not on team
2013 pick 6 Nerlens Noel BUST, not on team

 

[Finito]

Speaking of busts, look at this track record. I get that teams miss all the time, but to whiff on 4 of the last 6 picks so badly is not good.

2017 pick 1 Markelle Fultz BUST
2016 pick 1 Ben Simmons Missed full season, but real deal
2015 pick 3 Jahlil Okafor BUST, not on team
2014 pick 3 Joel Embiid Missed better part of two seasons and injury still concern, but stud when healthy
2013 pick 11 Michael Carter-Williams BUST, not on team
2013 pick 6 Nerlens Noel BUST, not on team

The draft is a total crap shoot.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

Speaking of busts, look at this track record. I get that teams miss all the time, but to whiff on 4 of the last 6 picks so badly is not good.

2017 pick 1 Markelle Fultz BUST
2016 pick 1 Ben Simmons Missed full season, but real deal
2015 pick 3 Jahlil Okafor BUST, not on team
2014 pick 3 Joel Embiid Missed better part of two seasons and injury still concern, but stud when healthy
2013 pick 11 Michael Carter-Williams BUST, not on team
2013 pick 6 Nerlens Noel BUST, not on team

And then the Zhaire Smith allergy thing is also bizarre.

 

[Sunburn]

Fultz doesnt have a lot of value right now. The 6ers would settle for just dumping his salary to go after a meaningful free agent. On the 6ers board, no one thinks they can get a 1st rounder for him. I'm reading articles that say all it would take to acquire him is Okobo, Bender, and a 2nd rounder. I would do it for that price. I'd consider throwing in the Bucks pick. No way in hell I'd throw our pick in there, even with protection.

 

[1Sun]

Speaking of busts, look at this track record. I get that teams miss all the time, but to whiff on 4 of the last 6 picks so badly is not good.

2017 pick 1 Markelle Fultz BUST
2016 pick 1 Ben Simmons Missed full season, but real deal
2015 pick 3 Jahlil Okafor BUST, not on team
2014 pick 3 Joel Embiid Missed better part of two seasons and injury still concern, but stud when healthy
2013 pick 11 Michael Carter-Williams BUST, not on team
2013 pick 6 Nerlens Noel BUST, not on team

Ultimate example of why it is dangerous (and foolish) to build exclusively through the draft. If the Suns don't get pieces through free agency and/or trade (for veterans, not draft picks), they will never be competitive.

 

[1Sun]

Fultz doesnt have a lot of value right now. The 6ers would settle for just dumping his salary to go after a meaningful free agent. On the 6ers board, no one thinks they can get a 1st rounder for him. I'm reading articles that say all it would take to acquire him is Okobo, Bender, and a 2nd rounder. I would do it for that price. I'd consider throwing in the Bucks pick. No way in hell I'd throw our pick in there, even with protection.

Fultz isn't a point guard. He wasn't one in high school or college, either. In high school he was a shooting guard, and in college he was played out of position at the point by default. I don't want him at all, for any price, if it means we continue to play shooting guards at the point.

 

[Sunburn]

Ultimate example of why it is dangerous (and foolish) to build exclusively through the draft. If the Suns don't get pieces through free agency and/or trade (for veterans, not draft picks), they will never be competitive.

Not really. Even with the busts, the 6ers acquired their foundation with Embiid and Simmons. Warriors acquired their foundation through the draft. Obviously, you fill out your roster with veteran free agents, and sometimes a team can trade for a difference maker, but the draft remains the best way for middle and small market teams to come up.

 

[1Sun]

Not really. Even with the busts, the 6ers acquired their foundation with Embiid and Simmons. Warriors acquired their foundation through the draft. Obviously, you fill out your roster with veteran free agents, and sometimes a team can trade for a difference maker, but the draft remains the best way for middle and small market teams to come up.

Signing J.J. Redick is what propelled the Sixers from laughingstock to playoff team. Similarly, trading for Andre Iguodala was a key for the Warriors.

I'm not saying you can't build your foundation through the draft. I am saying you can't rely exclusively on the draft.

And we're not a small or middle market team. We're in the fifth largest market in the country. (Correction: Sixth. Apparently we were just passed, barely, by...Philadelphia.)

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Not really. Even with the busts, the 6ers acquired their foundation with Embiid and Simmons. Warriors acquired their foundation through the draft. Obviously, you fill out your roster with veteran free agents, and sometimes a team can trade for a difference maker, but the draft remains the best way for middle and small market teams to come up.

Prior to KD leaving the Thunder had also built a championship caliber roster through the draft as well. The Suns IMO have put together a young core already that can compete for championships some day, but now need to build the rest of the roster and the culture to get there.

 

[Sunburn]

Signing J.J. Redick is what propelled the Sixers from laughingstock to playoff team. Similarly, trading for Andre Iguodala was a key for the Warriors.

I'm not saying you can't build your foundation through the draft. I am saying you can't rely exclusively on the draft.

And we're not a small or middle market team. We're in the fifth largest market in the country.

There's never been a team that has been constructed purely through the draft.

 

[1Sun]

Prior to KD leaving the Thunder had also built a championship caliber roster through the draft as well. The Suns IMO have put together a young core already that can compete for championships some day, but now need to build the rest of the roster and the culture to get there.

And that takes free agent signings and trades for veterans, not yet more draft picks.

 

[1Sun]

There's never been a team that has been constructed purely through the draft.

Currently ours is. The only rotation players that weren't drafted by us are one-year rentals Ariza and Crawford, with one-year trade rental Holmes arguably being a third.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

There's never been a team that has been constructed purely through the draft.

Obviously. When someone says "built through the draft" they are talking about the core pieces of the team. Clearly the Suns still need to use trades and free agency to find more role players to fill out the roster, but I believe the core pieces or already on the roster.

 

[Sunburn]

Currently ours is. The only rotation players that weren't drafted by us are one-year rentals Ariza and Crawford, with one-year trade rental Holmes arguably being a third.

We did not draft ariza, anderson, Holmes, canaan, crawford, Daniels, or Melton. They were fa signings or trade acquisitions. In my opinion, it's a good thing that our best players are our own draft picks. But again, no team has been completely constructed through the draft. Now, if you're arguing we need better fa signing and trade acquisitions, then yes, I agree that would be beneficial.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

We did not draft ariza, anderson, Holmes, canaan, crawford, Daniels, or Melton. They were fa signings or trade acquisitions. In my opinion, it's a good thing that our best players are our own draft picks. But again, no team has been completely constructed through the draft. Now, if you're arguing we need better fa signing and trade acquisitions, then yes, I agree that would be beneficial.

There is clearly a disconnect here. None of those guys you mentioned are part of our core that I said was drafted. I also stated that we still need to find the right trade and free agent targets to fill out the roster. The guys you mentioned aren't part of the core and most of them won't be on the roster when this team is good again. "Clearly the Suns still need to use trades and free agency to find more role players to fill out the roster" is directly suggesting that the current role players filling out the roster aren't good enough to win with. At least not with them playing big roles.