The 2022 NBA Play-In Tournament + Playoffs Thread

[Chris_Sanders]

But there not trash he has them in the 6 seed all by himself. I have no idea why you hate him so much but he’s def not an empty stat padder

Jokic leads Denver in
Minutes
Points
Rebounds
Assist
Steals
Blocks

You talk about being a one man team. He’s the definition of being the most valuable to his team

Padding stats on a non contender doesn't make you a two time MVP. It's laughable historically.

I don't hate Jokic. I hate that people think that stat padding = MVP. It's lazy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's a good lineup but it's beatable. I'd say put CP3 on Steph because he'll get his regardless and Paul is probably the only player we have who wouldn't get in foul trouble while he gets his. They run so many picks for Steph that it doesn't make sense trying to assign one guy to him. Meanwhile Mikal could clamp down on Poole and keep him from getting going. They run screens for him too but not nearly like they do for Curry.

I’d put cam Johnson in and have this defense:

Curry - bridges
Klay - book
Poole - cam johnson
Wiggins - paul
Green - ayton

They could post Wiggins on Paul, but (a) Paul is strong and scrappy in the post; and (b) that’s not how the warriors want to run the new death lineup - so taking them outta their preference with that lineup is a win imo.

And you have to work them on the other end forcing curry or Poole (whichever is hotter) to switch onto Ayton and then just have Ayton punish them in the post. I mean make Kerr realize “this doesn’t work against this team” kind of punishment. Green helps cover for the size deficiency of the new death lineup, but there’s a reason historically such lineups aren’t the go to, they have a fatal flaw against a team with a mobile big. You have to exploit to the fullest extent possible. Even force feed Ayton. Having him lean on curry/Poole enough and it will also sap a lot of their energy at the other end. Just have to make sure Ayton is locked in and ready to play with force.

If this becomes a Wiggins posting Paul verses Ayton posting curry/Poole contest I know which one wins. This also creates our best 3 point shooting team to punish them if they help on Ayton. Similarly we need to stay home as much as possible on defense and if we double, it should be Green’s man doubling. If green goes bonkers from three point land, so be it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

But there not trash he has them in the 6 seed all by himself. I have no idea why you hate him so much but he’s def not an empty stat padder

Jokic leads Denver in
Minutes
Points
Rebounds
Assist
Steals
Blocks

You talk about being a one man team. He’s the definition of being the most valuable to his team

Exactly. Six seed with no one else is unreal.

 

[Russ Smith]

I’d put cam Johnson in and have this defense:

Curry - bridges
Klay - book
Poole - cam johnson
Wiggins - paul
Green - ayton

They could post Wiggins on Paul, but (a) Paul is strong and scrappy in the post; and (b) that’s not how the warriors want to run the new death lineup - so taking them outta their preference with that lineup is a win imo.

And you have to work them on the other end forcing curry or Poole (whichever is hotter) to switch onto Ayton and then just have Ayton punish them in the post. I mean make Kerr realize “this doesn’t work against this team” kind of punishment. Green helps cover for the size deficiency of the new death lineup, but there’s a reason historically such lineups aren’t the go to, they have a fatal flaw against a team with a mobile big. You have to exploit to the fullest extent possible. Even force feed Ayton. Having him lean on curry/Poole enough and it will also sap a lot of their energy at the other end. Just have to make sure Ayton is locked in and ready to play with force.

If this becomes a Wiggins posting Paul verses Ayton posting curry/Poole contest I know which one wins. This also creates our best 3 point shooting team to punish them if they help on Ayton. Similarly we need to stay home as much as possible on defense and if we double, it should be Green’s man doubling. If green goes bonkers from three point land, so be it.

Azabuike was talking about it last night on air. He said the basic idea is they're willing to gamble they can get 3 for your 2 because they have 4 guys(if Wiggins is on) who can make the 3 in that lineup. And the other thing is they get these built in mismatches where bigs have to guard guys who are too quick and that wears down the bigs so they're less effective at the other end. I agree that works against Denver, I don't know that it works with Ayton who's always been good at defending on the outside against smaller guys.

Trying not to get ahead of myself they have lots of games to play before that becomes a reality but it's hard not to think about the Suns and Warriors

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Padding stats on a non contender doesn't make you a two time MVP. It's laughable historically.

I don't hate Jokic. I hate that people think that stat padding = MVP. It's lazy.

You sound like all the people that essentially questioned bookers abilities when he was surrounded by trash.

 

[Chaplin]

Or...putting up big stats because your team is trash isn't the sole criteria of being MVP.

Wanna bet?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Azabuike was talking about it last night on air. He said the basic idea is they're willing to gamble they can get 3 for your 2 because they have 4 guys(if Wiggins is on) who can make the 3 in that lineup. And the other thing is they get these built in mismatches where bigs have to guard guys who are too quick and that wears down the bigs so they're less effective at the other end. I agree that works against Denver, I don't know that it works with Ayton who's always been good at defending on the outside against smaller guys.

Trying not to get ahead of myself they have lots of games to play before that becomes a reality but it's hard not to think about the Suns and Warriors

Yup that’s exactly why I designed my matchups and defense that way. Better, longer athletes on your best three point shooters and they stay home. Don’t give them what they want. Make their two worst offensive players on the floor try to exploit matchups - which really only comes with posting Wiggins on Paul. Or on switches, of course. But the suns play an over defense on pick and rolls, so there shouldn’t be a ton of switches unless absolutely necessary.

And the good news is that Ayton plays defense away from the basket regularly. Is he as good out there as our smalls? No. But it will tough to “tire him out” with such a strategy because it’s already part of his game. This is impossible to replicate with Javale or biz.

Make no mistake, I believe this would be a war. It would be the series everyone is salivating for in the first two rounds.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

You sound like all the people that essentially questioned bookers abilities when he was surrounded by trash.

No I sound like people who look at the NBA historically and not just lazily pick based on "Who has the best stats"

 

[Covert Rain]

I think people forget that before Green went down that GS and Phoenix were looking like mirror images of themselves. It looked like it was going to be a two-way horse race to win the west. I can buy they look much better against a limited team but the way they are playing? It won't matter who they are playing much. They are getting healthy at the right time. IMO? The Suns will have to be playing at their peak in a series against GS. They are better than Memphis and better than any other opponent left in the playoffs and it's not even close.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No I sound like people who look at the NBA historically and not just lazily pick based on "Who has the best stats"

That’s actually a lazy statement. Historically the MVP has moved around a lot. And oftentimes the objectively best player doesn’t win it. Sometimes it’s heavily stats-based, sometimes it’s winning based, sometimes it’s something else entirely like “his time” or sentiment. But there’s no denying if jokic wasn’t on that team it’s likely the worst team in the nba rather than a sixth seed.

 

[Covert Rain]

That’s actually a lazy statement. Historically the MVP has moved around a lot. And oftentimes the objectively best player doesn’t win it. Sometimes it’s heavily stats-based, sometimes it’s winning based, sometimes it’s something else entirely like “his time” or sentiment. But there’s no denying if jokic wasn’t on that team it’s likely the worst team in the nba rather than a sixth seed.

I watched a break down somewhere and they showed that normally it's the team with the best record or one of the best records and the best scorer on that team wins it more often that not. I can't remember how many times that exact scenario played out, but I seem to recall it was the majority.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

This is the lens of the MVP discussion. 66 MVPs in league history

Won the championship: 23
Lost in The Finals: Nine
Lost in the conference/division finals: 20
Lost in the conference semifinals: Eight
Lost in the first round: Five
Didn’t make the playoffs: One

If they get swept Jokic will be in his own catagory of "Didn't win a game in the playoffs".

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That’s actually a lazy statement. Historically the MVP has moved around a lot. And oftentimes the objectively best player doesn’t win it. Sometimes it’s heavily stats-based, sometimes it’s winning based, sometimes it’s something else entirely like “his time” or sentiment. But there’s no denying if jokic wasn’t on that team it’s likely the worst team in the nba rather than a sixth seed.

Wrong. See above.

 

[Finito]

No I sound like people who look at the NBA historically and not just lazily pick based on "Who has the best stats"

I don’t understand what’s more valuable than leading your team in pretty much every single category there is.

His season has been historical

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I don’t understand what’s more valuable than leading your team in pretty much every single category there is.

His season has been historical

Oh it's going to be historical for all the wrong reasons. See above.

 

[Finito]

This is the lens of the MVP discussion. 66 MVPs in league history

Won the championship: 23
Lost in The Finals: Nine
Lost in the conference/division finals: 20
Lost in the conference semifinals: Eight
Lost in the first round: Five
Didn’t make the playoffs: One

If they get swept Jokic will be in his own catagory of "Didn't win a game in the playoffs".

AGAIN he’s doing it without the #2 and #3 options on his team. Don’t act like that team is 100% because it’s not.

 

[Finito]

Oh it's going to be historical for all the wrong reasons. See above.

Haters gonna hate

 

[Chris_Sanders]

52 of 66 MVPs to the conference finals. The award is absolutely about being a great player on a great team.

Great players on great teams have to sacrifice personal stats for winning.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

AGAIN he’s doing it without the #2 and #3 options on his team. Don’t act like that team is 100% because it’s not.

He won the MVP because he is a stat padder on a non contender.

 

[elindholm]

And you have to work them on the other end forcing curry or Poole (whichever is hotter) to switch onto Ayton and then just have Ayton punish them in the post. I mean make Kerr realize “this doesn’t work against this team” kind of punishment.

The problem is that the Suns will have to score 1.5 times as often as the Warriors will, because their shots will be worth 2 instead of 3.

The reason small-ball teams haven't worked in the past is that they haven't been so quick and such good shooters (and passers). The current death lineup is a super-charged version of the original one.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm going to repost the NBA playoff brackets for 2022.

2022 Playoffs | Bracket | NBA.com

Official home of the 2022 NBA Playoffs. News, video, stats, matchups and series previews. The NBA Playoffs start April 16, 2022.

www.nba.com

 

[Cheesebeef]

52 of 66 MVPs to the conference finals. The award is absolutely about being a great player on a great team.

Great players on great teams have to sacrifice personal stats for winning.

And great players on bad teams need to make Herculean efforts every night to make that team win.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Jokic for MVP before the playoffs - Look how he has elevated this bad team into the playoffs

Jokic for MVP after the playoffs - Look how can he elevate this bad team in the playoffs.

The cat is both alive and dead.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He won the MVP because he is a stat padder on a non contender.

Stat padder is such an off-base description of what Jokic has done. If he doesn’t do EVERYTHING on the court, that team doesn’t win. Period.

And what stars are he padding? He’s a C so his JOB is to rebound. They have ZERO PG, so he also needs to distribute the ball. And he only averaged 27 ppg, so he wasn’t just ball hogging and padding scoring stats.

So what stat has he been padding, in your opinion.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jokic for MVP before the playoffs - Look how he has elevated this bad team into the playoffs

Jokic for MVP after the playoffs - Look how can he elevate this bad team in the playoffs.

The cat is both alive and dead.

MVP is a regular season award.