The 2022 NBA Play-In Tournament + Playoffs Thread

[somethingshesaid]

I’ll tell you what Stern probably loved about the Spurs… the AWFUL ratings every Finals matchup would grab during the overwhelming majority of their run until they finally played the Super Team Heat in 2013.

There’s no way Stern WANTED that team to win. They were incredibly efficient but an unbelievable bore to watch for the most part during their title runs in the 2000s

Here is another contrarian thought. I have got to be the only watcher on earth who holds this viewpoint: here's to "boring" but successful teams. I say that because I got sick years ago of fans/observers making too much of whether teams are "entertaining" or not, instead of demanding only that they win. Winning is the true entertainment. I say this also because I came to believe that as Suns fans (which I was back then), we honestly were sold snake oil by Mike D'Antoni, and I resent that. While D'Antoni built top-heavy, benchless teams that played little defense, he encouraged us to believe that they would surely win championships if they ran, ran, ran. The Spurs made his idea look silly every time. Those Suns teams are the antithesis of this group.

 

[Finito]

Harden was never a bus driver in the playoffs but he clearly isn’t the player he used to be

 

[Phrazbit]

Harden was never a bus driver in the playoffs but he clearly isn’t the player he used to be

When he forced his way out of Houston I think it was because he wanted to coast along for a title. Things have not worked out at all that way and it seems like he just doesn't give a **** anymore.

Also, the rule changes this year were targeted towards his miserable, ugly, boring, play style.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Here is another contrarian thought. I have got to be the only watcher on earth who holds this viewpoint: here's to "boring" but successful teams. I say that because I got sick years ago of fans/observers making too much of whether teams are "entertaining" or not, instead of demanding only that they win. Winning is the true entertainment. I say this also because I came to believe that as Suns fans (which I was back then), we honestly were sold snake oil by Mike D'Antoni, and I resent that. While D'Antoni built top-heavy, benchless teams that played little defense, he encouraged us to believe that they would surely win championships if they ran, ran, ran. The Spurs made his idea look silly every time. Those Suns teams are the antithesis of this group.

I don't see how that's contrarian. A lot of fans here will tell you they'd be fine with a hard to watch team during the regular season if that's what it took to win it all. I guess I might be too depending on the end result but I derive a lot of pleasure from simply watching each game. If, like you, I just followed the team from the boxscore, I'm sure I'd feel exactly the same as you do.

So, I'd rather watch an exciting team that got upset in the first round than a boring product from a team that went further in the postseason. Winning it all tips the scales but it doesn't change the fact that I would have set through 82 boring games. I'm sure Cleveland fans during the miserable Fratello era could explain it better.

But to be clear, I don't find defense boring. I don't need the team to score 140 points to be exciting - smart and balanced basketball is fun to watch too.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Here is another contrarian thought. I have got to be the only watcher on earth who holds this viewpoint: here's to "boring" but successful teams. I say that because I got sick years ago of fans/observers making too much of whether teams are "entertaining" or not, instead of demanding only that they win. Winning is the true entertainment. I say this also because I came to believe that as Suns fans (which I was back then), we honestly were sold snake oil by Mike D'Antoni, and I resent that. While D'Antoni built top-heavy, benchless teams that played little defense, he encouraged us to believe that they would surely win championships if they ran, ran, ran. The Spurs made his idea look silly every time. Those Suns teams are the antithesis of this group.

It’s not a contrarian thought… if you’re actually a fan of the team winning the way the Spurs did. Hell, I think THIS Suns team Is super Spurs-like with its efficiency and I love watching it. But the rest of the viewing public could give a damn (especially with those Spurs teams) and that was repeatedly proven true when the ratings tanked every year they were in the Finals.

And again, if anyone thinks Stern wanted awful Finals ratings year after year they’re drinking drano.

 

[Finito]

The fact that Doc Rivers is on that all time greatest coaches list is a joke.

 

[somethingshesaid]

And again, if anyone thinks Stern wanted awful Finals ratings year after year they’re drinking drano.

I remember the Spurs not as a bore but only as a drama-free symbol of basketball excellence, a team willing to shut up and play.

I got bored with the shallowness of "entertaining" basketball like the Nash-era Suns; and for even longer, I have disdained NBA team soap-opera such as that which the Lakers were famous for providing. Given such growing contempt for the NBA over the years (not for basketball), I smugly laughed it off when "boring" teams ruined the ratings. What of it?--ratings are of no interest to me. And the NBA, being a business too big to fail, won't suffer much if a "boring team" ruins its ratings repeatedly like the Spurs used to.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The fact that Doc Rivers is on that all time greatest coaches list is a joke.

I'm not sure he belongs on that anniversary top 15 list either but I don't think his inclusion rises to the level of "joke". He has a championship and a COY award and trails only Pop for most wins by an active coach and he's 10th on the all time list. It's tough to come up with 15 coaches with a better resume.

 

[somethingshesaid]

As bad as Bowen was, Karl Malone was far worse. And much more dangerous and as far as I know Stern had no particular love for the Jazz.

I know who Malone was but I am not an expert on him, so would you educate me on Malone being dangerous? The only time I ever saw him hurt someone was in a mid-90s Suns game when he ran into Elliot Perry and left him reportedly in the hospital not remembering what happened. Until everyone watched him on national television for two consecutive finals, I saw Malone only a few times a year in Suns games.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know who Malone was but I am not an expert on him, so would you educate me on Malone being dangerous? The only time I ever saw him hurt someone was in a mid-90s Suns game when he ran into Elliot Perry and left him reportedly in the hospital not remembering what happened. Until everyone watched him on national television for two consecutive finals, I saw Malone only a few times a year in Suns games.

There are probably a hundred or more examples of Malone using his elbows as a weapon but the one that always stands out for me is the shot he delivered to Isiah Thomas. That was about 40 years ago when the league routinely played much rougher and even still, he was tossed from the game. Of course, Karl always denied that he was dirty but Bowen claims to be clean too.

Anyway, you knew you were putting your life, your face, your groin in jeopardy if you drove the lane against Malone and the Jazz.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm not sure he belongs on that anniversary top 15 list either but I don't think his inclusion rises to the level of "joke". He has a championship and a COY award and trails only Pop for most wins by an active coach and he's 10th on the all time list. It's tough to come up with 15 coaches with a better resume.

Off the top of my head...
Riley, Phil Jackson, Tomjonavich, Larry Brown, Chuck Daly, Popovich, Jerry Sloan, Spoelstra, George Karl, and Auerbach, Don Nelson.

Those are all off the top of my head. I know I'm missing some from the 70's and 80's. I wouldn't rank Rivers in the top 5 active coaches currently. Longevity doesn't equal quality, IMO.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Tobias Harris just took a terrible, long distance 3 just so they could get a 2 for 1 and I was triggered.

 

[Mainstreet]

Tobias Harris just took a terrible, long distance 3 just so they could get a 2 for 1 and I was triggered.

The 76ers got a free throw out of it.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I remember the Spurs not as a bore but only as a drama-free symbol of basketball excellence, a team willing to shut up and play.

I got bored with the shallowness of "entertaining" basketball like the Nash-era Suns; and for even longer, I have disdained NBA team soap-opera such as that which the Lakers were famous for providing. Given such growing contempt for the NBA over the years (not for basketball), I smugly laughed it off when "boring" teams ruined the ratings. What of it?--ratings are of no interest to me. And the NBA, being a business too big to fail, won't suffer much if a "boring team" ruins its ratings repeatedly like the Spurs used to.

I don't care if ratings are of interest to you. that's not what I was responding to. I was responding to the idea that the NBA WANTED the Spurs to win and I think you're out to lunch if you think the NBA WANTED that in light of how awful their ratings were during those moments. The idea that a major sports league not omly doesn't care that one team consistently drags down the ratings of it's biggest showcase for a big part of a decade, but actually works IN THAT TEAM'S FAVOR to help them win is just, for lack of a better word... ridiculous. I'm sorry if that word is inflammatory but I don't know how else to describe the idea. The NBA is a BUSINESS first and foremost. That means they care about making as much money as possible and you put yourself at a disadvantage negotiating with networks for the Big TV deals (which is where the NBA makes it's biggest money) if you have a product on TV that people aren't watching.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Off the top of my head...
Riley, Phil Jackson, Tomjonavich, Larry Brown, Chuck Daly, Popovich, Jerry Sloan, Spoelstra, George Karl, and Auerbach, Don Nelson.

Those are all off the top of my head. I know I'm missing some from the 70's and 80's. I wouldn't rank Rivers in the top 5 active coaches currently. Longevity doesn't equal quality, IMO.

Well, longevity may not equal quality but it's certainly indicative of it in an industry where mediocrity and worse is fired quickly. I'd put Doc in the top 5 current coaches, at least right now, though granted in 20 years some of today's coaches will likely pass him by.

I'm not sure he belongs on the top 15 all time list but I don't have a strong opinion there one way or the other. My point was just that his inclusion isn't ridiculuous, the numbers suggest it's reasonable.

 

[Mainstreet]

There are probably a hundred or more examples of Malone using his elbows as a weapon but the one that always stands out for me is the shot he delivered to Isiah Thomas. That was about 40 years ago when the league routinely played much rougher and even still, he was tossed from the game. Of course, Karl always denied that he was dirty but Bowen claims to be clean too.

Anyway, you knew you were putting your life, your face, your groin in jeopardy if you drove the lane against Malone and the Jazz.

I remember Shaq leading with his elbow on occasion but it was nothing like Karl Malone. Those were weapons as you say.

 

[Finito]

I'm not sure he belongs on that anniversary top 15 list either but I don't think his inclusion rises to the level of "joke". He has a championship and a COY award and trails only Pop for most wins by an active coach and he's 10th on the all time list. It's tough to come up with 15 coaches with a better resume.

And Blown 3-1 series leads 3 times in his career pretty much take away his one championship with Boston and it’s pure disaster and underachieving

 

[Finito]

I remember Shaq leading with his elbow on occasion but it was nothing like Karl Malone. Those were weapons as you say.

I don’t know if Malone was dirty but he certainly swung those elbows but that’s what everybody did back then

I remember Barkley getting rebounds and throwing elbows like crazy to clear space

 

[Mainstreet]

I don’t know if Malone was dirty but he certainly swung those elbows but that’s what everybody did back then

I remember Barkley getting rebounds and throwing elbows like crazy to clear space

Mostly I remember Charles clearing room with his derriere.

 

[Finito]

BAM is really not good on offense. He’s a better Clint Capela. Great rim runner but you can’t throw it to him and expect him to get a basket

 

[AzStevenCal]

And Blown 3-1 series leads 3 times in his career pretty much take away his one championship with Boston and it’s pure disaster and underachieving

Sorry but no. The championship stands far above the low points on his resume. How many blown opportunities would we wipe away for our own championship?

Wins, winning percentage and awards all suggest he's one of the best ever. Top 15? Who knows? But arguably top 15? Yes, as evidenced by the committee that put him on that list, even if by some chance it was influenced by reasons other than actual performance.

IOW, if you disagree that he's top 15 that's fine - but to argue that it's a joke he's on the list, I can't buy that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Embiid is a damn warrior.

 

[AzStevenCal]

BAM is really not good on offense. He’s a better Clint Capela. Great rim runner but you can’t throw it to him and expect him to get a basket

I agree although being a better Clint Capela is still pretty damned good.

 

[Cheesebeef]

BAM is really not good on offense. He’s a better Clint Capela. Great rim runner but you can’t throw it to him and expect him to get a basket

Yeah… I’m surprised by the lack of any refinement in his offensive game since he almost burst the bubble two years ago.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Embiid is a damn warrior.

I don't see the big deal, he's only playing with a broken face..