The Biggest Loser (of Cardinals training camp)

[Krangodnzr]

The good news is that most deemed “darksiders” don’t do the “told you so” much.

This is patently false. All you guys ever do is trumpet how much you are right and how anyone optimistic is likely wrong.

I've read probably no less than three darksiders say this comment in the last three days!

 

[Solar7]

Can you tell me any time you have been positive about a draft pick, FA signing etc?

Any time you said "I love this guy he's going to be great". For a guy with 27000 posts I'd imagine there should be loads but I'm leaning towards barely any right? Seems your natural position is to doubt everything at length and hope to be surprised.

This is ridiculous. You've posted here since early 2020, and guys like Stout, Ouchie, Cheese, Chopper and myself have been here for ~18 years prior (as have others like Krang). Do you think we'd still be here if we weren't positive at some points? If we didn't want the team to win?

We love this team. We've seen how terrible it can be. We've endured through our fandom. I'd imagine that not one of us questioned the Cards roster in 2015, or stopped to question the team in our 2008 run.

I'll tell you, I can't wait to get to a new coach and GM combo, because you'll hear nothing but hope from me, barring completely dumb hires. It's half a decade of a playoff drought. We're exhausted. We're spending our money on something that has stopped returning joy. Everything seems like a mess.

Maybe he "doubts everything at length" so he doesn't overinvest. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than have my dreams shattered.

 

[gmabel830]

This whole thread has become the biggest loser of Cardinals Training Camp

 

[BritCard]

Lol Okay, newcomer. First one that comes to mind is when I was cheer leading Keim--literally proclaiming he had balls of solid rock--when we got Rosen. I loved the pick; one time I really wished I'd been right. But, okay, you also have a really short memory, because I've been all about the Hudson trade.

The Hudson trade is a no brainer. There isn't a fan here who isn't on board with a top 5 center for a 3rd round pick. It's not exactly putting yourself out there. It's like saying you wouldn't mind sleeping with Margot Robbie.

Same with Rosen. What fan's don't get excited about drafting a 1st round QBOTF?

Both these were widely supported by 95% of fans.

Any time you actually stuck your neck out for someone that split opinion? I can tell you 4 from this year alone in Watt, Green, Collins and Wilson.

 

[BritCard]

This is ridiculous. You've posted here since early 2020, and guys like Stout, Ouchie, Cheese, Chopper and myself have been here for ~18 years prior (as have others like Krang). Do you think we'd still be here if we weren't positive at some points? If we didn't want the team to win?

We love this team. We've seen how terrible it can be. We've endured through our fandom. I'd imagine that not one of us questioned the Cards roster in 2015, or stopped to question the team in our 2008 run.

I'll tell you, I can't wait to get to a new coach and GM combo, because you'll hear nothing but hope from me, barring completely dumb hires. It's half a decade of a playoff drought. We're exhausted. We're spending our money on something that has stopped returning joy. Everything seems like a mess.

Maybe he "doubts everything at length" so he doesn't overinvest. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised than have my dreams shattered.

Firstly, I'm not questioning your fandom or @Stout or anyone else. Despite @Ouchie-Z-Clown putting words in my mouth. In fact, I like and appreciate all 3 of you. Although I'm not sure how long or recent someone's membership here has a baring on how right or wrong they are.

Like people, fans come in all flavors and there are some here that are relentlessly negative beyond all reason. I've defended and supported you several times on here, but this off season has been tedious.

Not over investing so you are "pleasantly surprised" is a neutral position. That's not what you do. You endlessly complain about everything and telling others how they are wrong to be positive. It's draining.

My point to @Stout was that it's EASY to never put yourself out there except on things everyone agrees on. Hudson was a good signing, "I was happy we drafted Rosen". Next you will be telling me you liked the Nuk and Chandler Jones trades.

But it seem's to me that unless it's a surefire, no brainer positive move you're going to be negative about it, and tell everyone else why they should be negative about it, until proven otherwise.

I have no problem with negative opinions when there are clearly issues that deserve being negative about, but there are also things that could go either way and 100% of the time if it's in the balance you always choose negative.

How about you stick your neck out now and again and say "I think this player/trade/draft pick is going to be good" based on nothing but a little knowledge and some blind faith?

I'll do some now because it does no harm.

I think Jordan Hicks is going to have a better year.
I think Chritian Kirk is a solid WR that can do much more and has been badly used. He will have an ascending year and 850+ yards.
I think Marco Wilson will struggle at first as most rookie CB's do but by year end he will be solidified as the future CB1
I think Zaven, while not in the DROTY conversation, will have a good year with a PFF grade over 65. (Devin White was 51 as a rookie)
I think Robert Alford, if he stays healthy, will be a solid starter. Better than most we had at CB lately. Judging him on his last year at the Falcons is silly.
I think while we likely lose on Sunday I don't think it's as foregone as some think. It will be a close game and come down to a turnover or a single stalled drive either way.

But also I don't think we have more than 7 wins. I don't think Kliff vastly improves and I think next off season we are looking for a new HC, but sadly not GM. I'm playing the odds here more than anything. I do think Kliff his smart, he just hasn't shown much of it in games so far. His NFL career has been much like his college career and I don't see that suddenly changing. His record against winning teams is poor, and I think we play a lot of winning teams this year. And Mikey's arm is too far inside Steve Keim to be detached now.

 

[MrYeahBut]

In the immortal words of New Age Guru, Marianne Wiliamson

"Do you want to be right all the time?

Or do you want to be happy?

 

[Zeem_Freeze]

was listening to some Cards podcasts and team media making it sound like Josh Jones doesn't have a solid grip on the starting position.

They said "I expect to see Brian Winters physicality and experience at some point this year. Now, dont get me wrong, Kyler said Josh Jones earned the starting role but how much of that has to do with Winters being injured during most of camp?"

Also the posts saying "dont you remember my Hudson take from 3 months ago?" crack me up.

 

[Stout]

The Hudson trade is a no brainer. There isn't a fan here who isn't on board with a top 5 center for a 3rd round pick. It's not exactly putting yourself out there. It's like saying you wouldn't mind sleeping with Margot Robbie.

Same with Rosen. What fan's don't get excited about drafting a 1st round QBOTF?

Both these were widely supported by 95% of fans.

Any time you actually stuck your neck out for someone that split opinion? I can tell you 4 from this year alone in Watt, Green, Collins and Wilson.

lol Way to move the goal posts there, buddy. You asked, I answered, the end.

 

[BritCard]

was listening to some Cards podcasts and team media making it sound like Josh Jones doesn't have a solid grip on the starting position.

They said "I expect to see Brian Winters physicality and experience at some point this year. Now, dont get me wrong, Kyler said Josh Jones earned the starting role but how much of that has to do with Winters being injured during most of camp?"

Also the posts saying "dont you remember my Hudson take from 3 months ago?" crack me up.

Brian Winters is JR Sweezy without the Hair. I'd rather role with the young guy.

 

[BritCard]

lol Way to move the goal posts there, buddy. You asked, I answered, the end.

When I asked if you ever put yourself out there on a player I didn't expect "Well I like Chocolate". Who doesn't?

 

[Stout]

When I asked if you ever put yourself out there on a player I didn't expect "Well I like Chocolate". Who doesn't?

Mm hmm. Well, you can keep trying to question my fandom and attitude, and reframing that however you'd like, @BritCard. I have no need to justify myself to you. Go question a bobblehead who is relentlessly positive about anything and can't find a single problem with the team, ever, as to why that is, m'kay?

 

[QuebecCard]

When I asked if you ever put yourself out there on a player I didn't expect "Well I like Chocolate". Who doesn't?

Vanilla with almonds here, and a Coke Zero to create a float.

 

[BritCard]

Mm hmm. Well, you can keep trying to question my fandom and attitude, and reframing that however you'd like, @BritCard. I have no need to justify myself to you. Go question a bobblehead who is relentlessly positive about anything and can't find a single problem with the team, ever, as to why that is, m'kay?

I'm not questioning your fandom. Nor have I reframed anything, I asked you if you was ever positive about any move we made and your answer was equivalent to "I like the Nuk trade". Well duh. I was simply giving the opportunity to show you have ever gone out on a limb for anyone, or taken a positive stance in a neutral situation which was the point of my original question.

It's easy to be positive about things that are obviously positive, that doesn't mean people have to be negative about literally everything else.

Watt - too old
Green - old, washed
RB room - crap
Kirk - failure
Wilson - disaster waiting to happen

The truth is all of these situations could go either way, and there are fans that hold a negative view on some and positive on others. Nobody is being a homer and just loving everything.

But there are also some that are negative on all of them, which is just against the odds and speaks of just a generally negative attitude.

 

[jf-08]

Please stop the bickering for crying out loud. The season can't get here quick enough. Both sides are equally right and wrong. Holy crap.

 

[tnmike]

When I asked if you ever put yourself out there on a player I didn't expect "Well I like Chocolate". Who doesn't?

I like pie

 

[BritCard]

I like pie

I bet you really like pie with chocolate though right?

 

[Stout]

I'm not questioning your fandom. Nor have I reframed anything, I asked you if you was ever positive about any move we made and your answer was equivalent to "I like the Nuk trade". Well duh. I was simply giving the opportunity to show you have ever gone out on a limb for anyone, or taken a positive stance in a neutral situation which was the point of my original question.

It's easy to be positive about things that are obviously positive, that doesn't mean people have to be negative about literally everything else.

Watt - too old
Green - old, washed
RB room - crap
Kirk - failure
Wilson - disaster waiting to happen

The truth is all of these situations could go either way, and there are fans that hold a negative view on some and positive on others. Nobody is being a homer and just loving everything.

But there are also some that are negative on all of them, which is just against the odds and speaks of just a generally negative attitude.

So, yeah, you have. Nice try.

Also, on Watt, I've been ambivalent, not negative. In a vacuum I like bringing him in, but am leery because of age and wear and tear. Funny you should bring up Kirk, because I was doing cartwheels when we got him and sang his praises--and Keim's, for bringing him in. But, hey, that was just me putting myself out there, and I was sure burned on that one. Also, pardon me for not loving the move for a RB I used to mock Steelers fans for having on their roster; I'm not relishing that coming back on me one bit! Finally, yes, there are plenty of folks here--not calling out specific names, because I'm not going to troll like that--that are nothing but 100% positive vibes. But that's okay; being a (realist) darksider isn't. I understand the double standard, and you trying to press that double standard just isn't working.

Thanks for "giving me an opportunity" lol, but can we stop this useless back and forth and try to talk football?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is patently false. All you guys ever do is trumpet how much you are right and how anyone optimistic is likely wrong.

I've read probably no less than three darksiders say this comment in the last three days!

From a general sense to defend the fact that we seem dark. But you almost never see one of us come back hollering “see! I told you buddy Ryan sucked!”

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The Hudson trade is a no brainer. There isn't a fan here who isn't on board with a top 5 center for a 3rd round pick. It's not exactly putting yourself out there. It's like saying you wouldn't mind sleeping with Margot Robbie.

Same with Rosen. What fan's don't get excited about drafting a 1st round QBOTF?

Both these were widely supported by 95% of fans.

Any time you actually stuck your neck out for someone that split opinion? I can tell you 4 from this year alone in Watt, Green, Collins and Wilson.

Uh, why does anyone have to “stick their neck out” to be a fan? That’s a weird criteria. And doesn’t the fact that one has to “stick their neck out” essentially state that the opposite position is the more reasonable one to adopt? Again, you’re making arguments against your own position.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

In the immortal words of New Age Guru, Marianne Wiliamson

"Do you want to be right all the time?

Or do you want to be happy?

Well it’s not about being “right” imo it’s about being accurate. And in my experience those are undertaking analysis and take a position a reasonable position based on that analysis don’t get destroyed like the taken by surprise pollyannas of the world and thus end up far happier in the long run. Not because they are “right,” but because they are better prepared for what is to come. But that’s just my perspective. I’m sure some people can enjoy being Charlie Brown to life’s Lucy. I’d chalk it up to short memories and good medical care.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

When I asked if you ever put yourself out there on a player I didn't expect "Well I like Chocolate". Who doesn't?

My 10 year old boy.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Vanilla with almonds here, and a Coke Zero to create a float.

I will never question your fandom, but that float? Yuck!

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not questioning your fandom. Nor have I reframed anything, I asked you if you was ever positive about any move we made and your answer was equivalent to "I like the Nuk trade". Well duh. I was simply giving the opportunity to show you have ever gone out on a limb for anyone, or taken a positive stance in a neutral situation which was the point of my original question.

It's easy to be positive about things that are obviously positive, that doesn't mean people have to be negative about literally everything else.

Watt - too old
Green - old, washed
RB room - crap
Kirk - failure
Wilson - disaster waiting to happen

The truth is all of these situations could go either way, and there are fans that hold a negative view on some and positive on others. Nobody is being a homer and just loving everything.

But there are also some that are negative on all of them, which is just against the odds and speaks of just a generally negative attitude.

Actually with a team that has a sub .500 record overall, a dismal record in AZ, and hasn’t had a winning season in five years, it’s not against the odds, it’s actually a reasonable position. If we were the Bucs this offseason you could make that claim.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Please stop the bickering for crying out loud. The season can't get here quick enough. Both sides are equally right and wrong. Holy crap.

Eh, at this point I’d say both sides are neither right nor wrong.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So, yeah, you have. Nice try.

Also, on Watt, I've been ambivalent, not negative. In a vacuum I like bringing him in, but am leery because of age and wear and tear. Funny you should bring up Kirk, because I was doing cartwheels when we got him and sang his praises--and Keim's, for bringing him in. But, hey, that was just me putting myself out there, and I was sure burned on that one. Also, pardon me for not loving the move for a RB I used to mock Steelers fans for having on their roster; I'm not relishing that coming back on me one bit! Finally, yes, there are plenty of folks here--not calling out specific names, because I'm not going to troll like that--that are nothing but 100% positive vibes. But that's okay; being a (realist) darksider isn't. I understand the double standard, and you trying to press that double standard just isn't working.

Thanks for "giving me an opportunity" lol, but can we stop this useless back and forth and try to talk football?

Yeah back to football.

(apologies to everyone to pulling us back into the back and forth).

actual real football starts tonight! Woohoo!