The Cardinals Front Office: To Be Or Not To Be

[Mitch]

You certainly didn't think that Leslie was going to be a bust here. :



McFadden was better at preventing the big play than Rod Hood was. I wasn't totally happy with his performance, but it is by definition an upgrade. Don't forget that Campbell was also an upgrade over Antonio Smith and the Cards invested serious defensive resources through the draft. It's not Graves' fault that Brown suffered a season-ending injury in the preseason.

The patience, no-big-name philosophy is the one that is practiced by the last four teams appearing in the Super Bowl. It's hard to argue with that kind of success.

To quote John McEnroe: "You cannot be serious!"

There are so many flaws in your argument it would take an hour to enumerate them all.

I will just address one...obviously you weren't paying atttention to the arguments on this thread, but as for your last four teams appearing in the Super Bowl, the Saints, went from out of the playoff chumps to Super Bowl winners because they made 4 outstanding moves in the off-season to make their defense Super Bowl worthy:

1. Hiring Greg Williams as DC
2. Signing LB Jonathan Vilma (a player they TRADED for...imagine that, targeting a player and trading for him?) to a long-term deal.
3. Signing FS Darren Sharper to lead their defense at a paltry $1.7M to boot.
4. Signing CB Jabarri Greer to a 4 year contract. Greer stifled the Cardinals' WRs, BTW.

This is PRO-ACTIVE THINKING...not "let's just build patiently..."

 

[Mitch]

Just so I can understand this line of debate and to have a complete picture, somebody please help (Joe ??)

1. What amount of money did we have at the start?
2. How much did we spend on our own players (Warner et al)
3. How much money did we have for FA after we signed our own players.
4. How much did we spend on FA from other teams and when
4. When did NO sign these players.

My only beef with the FO is their lack of speed in getting deals done. I think they have tried to spend the money but are so slow that the good ones are gone.

Good questions, Nuttin', and good assessment about the slow process (Hamlet-esque) the Cardinals' FO ponders year after year.

Let me explain one classic example...take the Cardinals' safety situation...having just gotten burned by poor safety play in the Super Bowl, one would think bringing in a player like Darren Sharper would be a major coup, right?

Sharper wasn't even on the Cardinals' radar.

In fact, they thought the combination of Antrel Rolle and Matt Ware would suffice. The irony...to get Sharper the Cardinals could have had to pay less than a million more than what they paid Matt Ware. Are you kidding me?

The world just passes this FO by. They have such little clue as to leadership and what makes a winning football team click.

They rode Warner's shirttails to unprecendented heights and now it remains "Business as Usual"...which is a lame excuse for doing nothing pro-active to take a shot at The Prize.

Warner, of any player the Cardinals have ever had, had his sight on The Prize.

The organization has no clue.

Warner took this team on his shoulders.

Now, as Mike Sando said so appropriately, the Cardinals will be lucky to get to 8-8 next year.

 

[Zeno]

Now, as Mike Sando said so appropriately, the Cardinals will be lucky to get to 8-8 next year.

Sando is known to be wrong, like when he had the Cardinals predicted finish at 6-10 after we had played 3 games.

 

[kerouac9]

To quote John McEnroe: "You cannot be serious!"

There are so many flaws in your argument it would take an hour to enumerate them all.

I will just address one...obviously you weren't paying atttention to the arguments on this thread, but as for your last four teams appearing in the Super Bowl, the Saints, went from out of the playoff chumps to Super Bowl winners because they made 4 outstanding moves in the off-season to make their defense Super Bowl worthy:

1. Hiring Greg Williams as DC
2. Signing LB Jonathan Vilma (a player they TRADED for...imagine that, targeting a player and trading for him?) to a long-term deal.
3. Signing FS Darren Sharper to lead their defense at a paltry $1.7M to boot.
4. Signing CB Jabarri Greer to a 4 year contract. Greer stifled the Cardinals' WRs, BTW.

This is PRO-ACTIVE THINKING...not "let's just build patiently..."

But none of those were aggressive, big money deals. If you're saying that the Cards' front office needs to work SMARTER with the materials that they have, then I'm right there with you. But you seem to be talking about going out and making splashes. Trading for Elvis Dumervil, etc.

When the Saints traded for Vilma, they gave up a conditional pick (I don't know what it ended up being). They essentially took him off the scrap heap; his career was nearly over at that point. That's a little bit different than what you're asking for here.

If you think that the Cards should keep their best players by re-signing them, I'm totally with you. I think the Cards should keep Karlos Dansby, because he's better than Vilma.

I'm not sure how you can compare these moves to what you're asking for the Cards to do this season. Jabari Greer wasn't a better prospect than Bryant McFadden when they were both signed. The Cards had a developing safety in Rolle where the Saints had nothing before they signed Sharper nearly three weeks into free agency.

You're comparing apples to oranges and saying they're the same thing. The Cards do exactly what the Saints did, with the exception of the DC hire.

 

[conraddobler]

When they brought Whiz in they not only brought in a coach they IMO brought in a franchise strategy.

Solid creative coaching and a Pittsburg style of letting players go for the most part rather than paying them and building through the draft.

I know we have nothing but time here but it's pretty obvious to me that we're not going to be agressive in FA and we're not going to do many splashy trades.

I'm fine with it, it is what it is.

The real key to that is the coach, and how he builds a staff and approaches the games.

Whiz is the goose that lays the golden eggs IMO, Rod even though he never says it, IMO learned from DG to draft better and to take the BPA when possible.

Our entire future will rest on our drafting for the most part, it'll be like 75 to 80 percent of our success and that's fine with me also.

We don't have the money to be splashy or front load a ton of contracts, if we're going to keep players happy we'll have to be careful who that is and we'll lose players bottom line, because that's what their plan is IMO.

It'll work or not based on their drafting. Our scouts have to be good and so do our coaches to make it work.

 

[ReddBird]

The thing to remember about all of this?

On every other NFL sports board, the fans are moaning about the failures (real and perceived) of their favorite teams, too.

 

[Duckjake]

When they brought Whiz in they not only brought in a coach they IMO brought in a franchise strategy.

Solid creative coaching and a Pittsburg style of letting players go for the most part rather than paying them and building through the draft.

I know we have nothing but time here but it's pretty obvious to me that we're not going to be agressive in FA and we're not going to do many splashy trades.

I'm fine with it, it is what it is.

The real key to that is the coach, and how he builds a staff and approaches the games.

Whiz is the goose that lays the golden eggs IMO, Rod even though he never says it, IMO learned from DG to draft better and to take the BPA when possible.

Our entire future will rest on our drafting for the most part, it'll be like 75 to 80 percent of our success and that's fine with me also.

We don't have the money to be splashy or front load a ton of contracts, if we're going to keep players happy we'll have to be careful who that is and we'll lose players bottom line, because that's what their plan is IMO.

It'll work or not based on their drafting. Our scouts have to be good and so do our coaches to make it work.

Exactly right. The Cards have had little success with free agents. Warner would have been a bust as a free agent if Rackers hadn't missed that FG against Chicago. Al Johnson, what a joke he was. McFadden? Might as well have kept Rod Hood, another FA wash out. How about Terrance Holt and Travis LaBoy? Mike Gandy? Didn't even miss him when he went out. Got a couple of good years out of Berry and Haggans has been solid as well as Okeafor but Chike couldn't stay on the field. Robinson, nothing but mediocre.

The list goes on and on. So much for filling holes with mid-tier guys.



Meanwhile our top players? All our guys. Boldin, Hayes, Reggie Wells, Fitz, Dansby, Dockett, Rolle, Latui, Brown, Breaston, Patrick,Sendlein,Campbell,DRC,Hightower and Beanie.

 

[Mitch]

Exactly right. The Cards have had little success with free agents. Warner would have been a bust as a free agent if Rackers hadn't missed that FG against Chicago. Al Johnson, what a joke he was. McFadden? Might as well have kept Rod Hood, another FA wash out. How about Terrance Holt and Travis LaBoy? So much for filling holes with mid-tier guys.

Mike Gandy? Didn't even miss him when he went out. Got a couple of good years out of Berry and Haggans has been solid as well as Okeafor but Chike couldn't stay on the field. Robinson, nothing but mediocre.

Meanwhile our top players? All our guys. Boldin, Hayes, Reggie Wells, Fitz, Dansby, Dockett, Rolle, Latui, Brown, Breaston, Patrick,Sendlein,Campbell,DRC,Hightower and Beanie.

Great examples, Duckjake, but if the Saints stuck to your principle they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl.

The best formula, IMO, is sign free agents to fill the biggest needs and draft BPA. And most of all, get coaches in place who can groom the players and outcoach the opponents.

 

[Catfish]

To Kerouac, Joeshmoe et al. ----- The difference with our front office and say, the Saints front office, is that the Saints were pro-active enough to go out into free agency and actually get players who could do the job of filling the holes that they needed to fill.

Where they were agressive in identifying the need, and taking action on it, we have idled away time with indecision, and then studied the feasibility of taking action, using up valuable time, until there were few qualified players remaining to choose from.

It is not unlike a chess game: The good ones have their game planned out several moves ahead, while the rest wait to see what the opponent's next move is before deciding which way to go. Some have the ability to anticipate the next move, others don't, and Graves falls into the latter group. This often handicaps what moves he ultimately is able to make, as players were gobbled up along the way.

By the way, I did see the same locker room interview where Warner said exactly what Mitch and I have said he did. And yes, Graves was so indecisive about Warner that he almost lost him before the Super Bowl run.

So far as Whiz's contract is concerned, the really good GM's know when they have a good HC, and they take steps to see that he gets nowhere close to being on the market. They lock them up early, and thus the players see that they don't have to worry and wonder about whether or not the Coach will be there when it comes time for them to sign. This also tells other teams where the (TOGETHER) organizations are, and you see players want to gravitate to them.

For awhile, (after signing Whiz as HC), we had that here. After losing the SB however, and failing to provide solutions to the Boldin, Dansby problems, or to even try to bring in that one defensive player that could (make a difference), players sense the indecision here. Thus, not only are gifted players not gravitating to us, we are losing our own gifted players, (most of whom were signed originally by Denny Green). (While he was not a great coach or what I consider even a good man, he was a great evaluator of talent).

It is Graves indecision that has kept us from becoming a preferred destination for good players, (coupled with our past of not being willing to pay up). We did away with the latter part for awhile, but Graves failure to act in a decisive manner, or to appear to not have a master plan which indicates what the next step, and the next after that should be, has all but put us back on the back burner so far as having this be a destination for real talent.

 

[bg7brd]

To Kerouac, Joeshmoe et al. ----- The difference with our front office and say, the Saints front office, is that the Saints were pro-active enough to go out into free agency and actually get players who could do the job of filling the holes that they needed to fill.

Where they were agressive in identifying the need, and taking action on it, we have idled away time with indecision, and then studied the feasibility of taking action, using up valuable time, until there were few qualified players remaining to choose from.

It is not unlike a chess game: The good ones have their game planned out several moves ahead, while the rest wait to see what the opponent's next move is before deciding which way to go. Some have the ability to anticipate the next move, others don't, and Graves falls into the latter group. This often handicaps what moves he ultimately is able to make, as players were gobbled up along the way.

By the way, I did see the same locker room interview where Warner said exactly what Mitch and I have said he did. And yes, Graves was so indecisive about Warner that he almost lost him before the Super Bowl run.

So far as Whiz's contract is concerned, the really good GM's know when they have a good HC, and they take steps to see that he gets nowhere close to being on the market. They lock them up early, and thus the players see that they don't have to worry and wonder about whether or not the Coach will be there when it comes time for them to sign. This also tells other teams where the (TOGETHER) organizations are, and you see players want to gravitate to them.

For awhile, (after signing Whiz as HC), we had that here. After losing the SB however, and failing to provide solutions to the Boldin, Dansby problems, or to even try to bring in that one defensive player that could (make a difference), players sense the indecision here. Thus, not only are gifted players not gravitating to us, we are losing our own gifted players, (most of whom were signed originally by Denny Green). (While he was not a great coach or what I consider even a good man, he was a great evaluator of talent).

It is Graves indecision that has kept us from becoming a preferred destination for good players, (coupled with our past of not being willing to pay up). We did away with the latter part for awhile, but Graves failure to act in a decisive manner, or to appear to not have a master plan which indicates what the next step, and the next after that should be, has all but put us back on the back burner so far as having this be a destination for real talent.

You would think we were talking about the Lions or the Rams here. I wonder if some of you will ever be happy. The only difference between us and the Saints is they got the interception on the final drive and we didn't. We have a good football team, finally, so I say we stick to what got us here.

 

[kerouac9]

Catfish, I don't think that we're as far apart on this as you might think, but I wish that you'd be more specific. Particularly, how is waiting three weeks to sign Sharper and almost a full week to sign Jabari Greer being "agressive in identifying the need, and taking action on it"?

I know that people are heating up Bryant McFadden, but McFadden at least played in 16 games last season. Greer was good in the playoffs, but he only appeared in 9 games during the regular season. Based on value (since they're making about equal money), I would say that year one is about a wash.

There are few people on this board less willing to cut Rod Graves slack than I, but his free agency policy has been solid in my book. Again, I'd rather make headlines in December and January than in March.

There are two things that I have a serious problem with with Rod Graves. The first is that his in-league scouting program is terrible. It seems like the quality free agents we stumble into (like Bryan Robinson and Clark Haggans) are accidents, while the guys that we seem to really like and want to pay (like Travis Laboy and Al Johnson) don't fit in or don't work out. Part of the reason that I don't mind being patient in free agency is that I'd prefer not to strike out on these ten-figure contracts for guys that are going to be off the roster within 12 months.

The second problem that I have is that Graves has consistently placed the franchise's back against the wall because of his inability to correctly estimate the value of the players on his roster. The Cards missed out on a very good, very cheap FA signing in Brandon Chillar two years ago because he was farting around with the predictable contract escalation of Larry Fitzgerald. Last year, the Cards missed out on keeping a solid depth player like Monty Beisel because they were hamstrung with Kurt Warner in the wind and Karlos Dansby with the Franchise Tag.

The difference between Graves and the organizations he's said that he'd like to emulate (largely Philadelphia) is that Philly isn't often wrong in the estimations of the talent on their roster, so they don't regret the extensions that they hand out. I have little doubt that if Karlos Dansby was a Philadelphia Eagle, he would have been signed to an extension two-and-a-half years ago.

I'm also not going to get all over Whis and Graves for not hiring a better DC after last season. Remember that the Cards played in the Super Bowl that year; there weren't a lot of high-quality assistants on the market come the second or third week of February. Gregg Williams was hired January 15 of last year; the Cards had no shot at him. Pendergast didn't get fired until February 5. It's one thing to say that the Cards should have brought in an outsider, but who would you have brought in? Mike Nolan was hired by Denver on January 12. Dom Capers was hired January 19 in Green Bay. Keith Butler knows that he's going to get Dick LeBeau's job whenever he decides to step down; he's not going anywhere.

 

[lauraw]

Graves is the NFL talent evaluator, and he gets a contract-denying failure for a grade as you yourself stated RM!!!

 

[Catfish]

Kerouac ----- maybe we aren't as far apart as it might look on the surface. Maybe we are talking about the same thing when you say that Graves lacks the ability to correctly judge the value of a player, (while I say he is indecisive and tends to be overly cautious, and time wasting in his actions). That actually MAY BE because of his inability to judge real talent. After all, look how long it took him to decide to up the ante to keep Kurt.

My point is, that Graves is not proficient in (TIMELY) action regarding players who need contracts attended to. He has far too often been caught up with one contract at a time while the rest of the roster is unattended to. Even then, he is not quick to take action with the one contract he is dealing with, but tends to let it draw on and on without closing the deal.

While he may think that this is saving money, the few dollars he saves by playing out the timeline on each separate contract, actually costs the franchise in the long run, by failure to attend to ALL that should have been done. He has seldom been able to decide that we need to do this guy now, and not let negotiations drag on, ( or worse yet, let them wait till next year), before doing anything about it. Dansby is one such case, where action could, (and should), have been taken a year or two earlier. Whiz is the same kind of situation.

What I don't like about this, is that he gives the players, (both ours, and those from other teams that might be inclined to look to us as their future), reason to doubt either his sincerity, or his competency to complete his job. A GM can't get by with completing the signing of only one serious contract per year, and he has been doing that while others go without attention. Somehow he needs to be able to get these signings done in an orderly fashion.

So far as free agent signings are concerned, I believe that he waits until the pool is depleted to far before he even considers a potential signing. Even then, he tends to keep them longer than they are worth their money. In my opinion, he thus opens the door for what I will simply call, the way for players to perform to less than they might have, had they seen that he would ship those guys out in a heartbeat. He is simply not seen as a GM who is on top of his assignments, and THIS causes us to lose out on people who otherwise might have been anxious to come to the desert.

So far as giving him some slack, if you care to look back the past several years, I have been solidly behind him each year. I can no longer keep up that facade, because he has caused, I believe, a backup in contract negotiations, and is causing us to lose players we should have kept. The fact that he has intentions to do the same thing again this year, is beyond my comprehension. (see buliness as usual) in Urbans blog on the official site.

This year, there are a number of talented RFA's that we should be competing for, and can not afford to miss out on. We have a chance to clean up some of the mess Graves has created by dragging out contract signings. His business as usual attitude will not get it this year, at least for me. If he fails to fill real needs in free agency this year, he is doing this team a terrible disservice.

 

[cardpa]

I for one cannot understand how one contract can take up all of his time. I behooves me that Graves cannot juggle several contracts at the same time. If he indeed is not capable of this then he certainly is not even an adequate GM. Doe he not have any assistants to support him on these efforts?

 

[Mitch]

Kerouac ----- maybe we aren't as far apart as it might look on the surface. Maybe we are talking about the same thing when you say that Graves lacks the ability to correctly judge the value of a player, (while I say he is indecisive and tends to be overly cautious, and time wasting in his actions). That actually MAY BE because of his inability to judge real talent. After all, look how long it took him to decide to up the ante to keep Kurt.

My point is, that Graves is not proficient in (TIMELY) action regarding players who need contracts attended to. He has far too often been caught up with one contract at a time while the rest of the roster is unattended to. Even then, he is not quick to take action with the one contract he is dealing with, but tends to let it draw on and on without closing the deal.

While he may think that this is saving money, the few dollars he saves by playing out the timeline on each separate contract, actually costs the franchise in the long run, by failure to attend to ALL that should have been done. He has seldom been able to decide that we need to do this guy now, and not let negotiations drag on, ( or worse yet, let them wait till next year), before doing anything about it. Dansby is one such case, where action could, (and should), have been taken a year or two earlier. Whiz is the same kind of situation.

What I don't like about this, is that he gives the players, (both ours, and those from other teams that might be inclined to look to us as their future), reason to doubt either his sincerity, or his competency to complete his job. A GM can't get by with completing the signing of only one serious contract per year, and he has been doing that while others go without attention. Somehow he needs to be able to get these signings done in an orderly fashion.

So far as free agent signings are concerned, I believe that he waits until the pool is depleted to far before he even considers a potential signing. Even then, he tends to keep them longer than they are worth their money. In my opinion, he thus opens the door for what I will simply call, the way for players to perform to less than they might have, had they seen that he would ship those guys out in a heartbeat. He is simply not seen as a GM who is on top of his assignments, and THIS causes us to lose out on people who otherwise might have been anxious to come to the desert.

So far as giving him some slack, if you care to look back the past several years, I have been solidly behind him each year. I can no longer keep up that facade, because he has caused, I believe, a backup in contract negotiations, and is causing us to lose players we should have kept. The fact that he has intentions to do the same thing again this year, is beyond my comprehension. (see buliness as usual) in Urbans blog on the official site.

This year, there are a number of talented RFA's that we should be competing for, and can not afford to miss out on. We have a chance to clean up some of the mess Graves has created by dragging out contract signings. His business as usual attitude will not get it this year, at least for me. If he fails to fill real needs in free agency this year, he is doing this team a terrible disservice.

You nailed it, Catfish. Well put.

 

[Mitch]

I for one cannot understand how one contract can take up all of his time. I behooves me that Graves cannot juggle several contracts at the same time. If he indeed is not capable of this then he certainly is not even an adequate GM. Doe he not have any assistants to support him on these efforts?

Exactly, cardpa. It's mind boggling.

Sometimes the speed and decisiveness in which a team acts makes an emphatically positive statement about the direction the organization is taking.

To have let the Warner negotiations drag out in embarrassing fashion last year tells us all we need to know about Graves and the FO.

There is a time for shrewd bargaining.

But there is a time when it's best for everyone to make an emphatic statement and to allow for just rewards.

Kurt Warner took the Cardinals to a Super Bowl making a mere $5M in the last year of his contract.

Playing the shrewd bargainer with him was regrettable. He should have been taken care of and compensated for.

Maybe Warner started losing the fun of everything during those regrettable negotiations...for he had to scrape and claw and even take a trip to SF to stand up for what he deserved.

How much better would it have been if the organization didn't put him through that ordeal?

It would have been better for everyone.

Are we supposed to heap praise on the Cardinals' FO for saving a few million on Warner's deal?

In that case, absolutely not.

Warner deserved Top 5 QB money because he was a Top 5 QB...and he was the #1 QB in the NFC.

Warner was paid an average of $8.25M for the last two years (the two best QB years the Cardinals have ever gotten)...talk about bargains.

So glad our shrewd negotiators took care of that.

Meanwhile the albatross was Karlos Dansby and having to pay him over $9M because of the FO's failure to get a deal done or come to a more decisive handle on the situation.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Here we go again. The time after the season and before Free Agency when we go into paranoid, we will screw up, mode. Read into everything that is said so that we can back up our paranoia with perceived references by various individuals. Then find anything and everything that might have been inferred about a previous years situation as proof that we will screw it up.

I can't wait until 5 minutes after midnight of free agency, when the redskins have thrown another 100M at someone, and at 6 minutes after midnight, there is a post about how we won't pony up and do what it takes.

Just, wow.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Let's face it Graves is a bottom tier GM. He has improved but rarely does he make a move without some kind of deadline forcing the issue. That's why you always hear the "if the timing is right" comment from him.If Bill Bidwill wasn't such a loyal guy, Graves likely would've been ousted years ago. A GM's main two jobs are contracts and talent evaluation. Graves is lacking in both those categories. Where he has improved is he allows alot of impact from the coaching staff and he seems to have developed a good scouting staff at the collegiate level. He's trustworthy and honest, two great qualities, and that's why the Bidwills keep him.

 

[joeshmo]

Just so I can understand this line of debate and to have a complete picture, somebody please help (Joe ??)

1. What amount of money did we have at the start?
2. How much did we spend on our own players (Warner et al)
3. How much money did we have for FA after we signed our own players.
4. How much did we spend on FA from other teams and when
4. When did NO sign these players.

My only beef with the FO is their lack of speed in getting deals done. I think they have tried to spend the money but are so slow that the good ones are gone.

I dont have my old spreadsheets but I can give you estimates.

First of all when reports showed up that we had 40 something million in cap space a few weeks before free agency everyone went on their usually free agent feeding frenzy, we need to sign so and so and 10 of them. Even though I put it into perspective for everyone. That perspective was yes we have 40 mill in cap but the day free agency hit most of that money would be gone. We only had 28 players under contract, that is a lot of players to re-sign. We had to pay some hefty RFA tenders, some EFA tenders. After Wilson, Warner, Haggans, RFA's, EFA's, bonuses paid out that were due, and some other players we re-signed we had a total of 7 mill in cap space. We did not have a lot of money to sign on free agents and were ranked #8 in total salary paid out in 2009. In no way shape or form can it be said they have been cheap since Wiz got here.

McFadden took up 5 of that remaining 7 or so, and for all the hyperbole about the guy he was without a shadow of a doubt an upgrade allowing 6 fewer TD's then his predecessor, allowed 2 fewer completetion percents, allowed 1 less yards per catch, and a whopping 23 fewer passer rating points. He and Davis(who also likes to get slammed) were also apart of a drastic Passing D turn around from the year before (minus two horrible playoff games one marred by injuries mind you). Our D as a whole allowed 6 fewer points per game from 2008 to 2009. Allowed 14 fewer passing TD's then previous year, allowed 5 fewer completion percentages, and held QB's to 20+ fewer qb rating points per game. I know the playoff games taints that and its what is most fresh in the memory and it was drastic, but that does not erase the drastic Passing D and Pass Rush improvement our team made in the regular season.

 

[bg7brd]

I dont have my old spreadsheets but I can give you estimates.

First of all when reports showed up that we had 40 something million in cap space a few weeks before free agency everyone went on their usually free agent feeding frenzy, we need to sign so and so and 10 of them. Even though I put it into perspective for everyone. That perspective was yes we have 40 mill in cap but the day free agency hit most of that money would be gone. We only had 28 players under contract, that is a lot of players to re-sign. We had to pay some hefty RFA tenders, some EFA tenders. After Wilson, Warner, Haggans, RFA's, EFA's, bonuses paid out that were due, and some other players we re-signed we had a total of 7 mill in cap space. We did not have a lot of money to sign on free agents and were ranked #8 in total salary paid out in 2009. In no way shape or form can it be said they have been cheap since Wiz got here.

McFadden took up 5 of that remaining 7 or so, and for all the hyperbole about the guy he was without a shadow of a doubt an upgrade allowing 6 fewer TD's then his predecessor, allowed 2 fewer completetion percents, allowed 1 less yards per catch, and a whopping 23 fewer passer rating points. He and Davis(who also likes to get slammed) were also apart of a drastic Passing D turn around from the year before (minus two horrible playoff games one marred by injuries mind you). Our D as a whole allowed 6 fewer points per game from 2008 to 2009. Allowed 14 fewer passing TD's then previous year, allowed 5 fewer completion percentages, and held QB's to 20+ fewer points per game. I know the playoff games taints that and its what is most fresh in the memory and it was drastic, but that does not erase the drastic Passing D and Pass Rush improvement our team made in the regular season.

Thanks Joe. Excellent as usuall.

 

[Mulli]

I dont have my old spreadsheets but I can give you estimates.

First of all when reports showed up that we had 40 something million in cap space a few weeks before free agency everyone went on their usually free agent feeding frenzy, we need to sign so and so and 10 of them. Even though I put it into perspective for everyone. That perspective was yes we have 40 mill in cap but the day free agency hit most of that money would be gone. We only had 28 players under contract, that is a lot of players to re-sign. We had to pay some hefty RFA tenders, some EFA tenders. After Wilson, Warner, Haggans, RFA's, EFA's, bonuses paid out that were due, and some other players we re-signed we had a total of 7 mill in cap space. We did not have a lot of money to sign on free agents and were ranked #8 in total salary paid out in 2009. In no way shape or form can it be said they have been cheap since Wiz got here.

McFadden took up 5 of that remaining 7 or so, and for all the hyperbole about the guy he was without a shadow of a doubt an upgrade allowing 6 fewer TD's then his predecessor, allowed 2 fewer completetion percents, allowed 1 less yards per catch, and a whopping 23 fewer passer rating points. He and Davis(who also likes to get slammed) were also apart of a drastic Passing D turn around from the year before (minus two horrible playoff games one marred by injuries mind you). Our D as a whole allowed 6 fewer points per game from 2008 to 2009. Allowed 14 fewer passing TD's then previous year, allowed 5 fewer completion percentages, and held QB's to 20+ fewer points per game. I know the playoff games taints that and its what is most fresh in the memory and it was drastic, but that does not erase the drastic Passing D and Pass Rush improvement our team made in the regular season.

 

[joeshmo]

By the way, I did see the same locker room interview where Warner said exactly what Mitch and I have said he did.

No one denies that. We all saw that interview, he said the same thing 100 more times since then. I will say it again how does a guy who says he doesnt like the daily grind or having the pressure on his shoulders equate to he retired because the FO didnt sign Sharper? How can you make that leap in logic, especially when its the same exact feelings of pressure on every single QB in the NFL no matter how good or bad their team is. Its the same pressure I know I put on myself at my job, it is pressure any hard working person will put on themselves regardless of who they are surrounded with. And its the same grind, that we all hate, its just that Warner has millions to retire early like we all want to do.

So far as Whiz's contract is concerned, the really good GM's know when they have a good HC, and they take steps to see that he gets nowhere close to being on the market.

Good we agree, good thing for us he is no where close to being on the open market with two years left on his deal.

After losing the SB however, and failing to provide solutions to the Boldin, Dansby problems, or to even try to bring in that one defensive player that could (make a difference), players sense the indecision here.

What about the solution on Wilson, giving Grimm a pay raise, Warner under contract(who cares about how long it took, its about results and he was a Cardinals in 2009), Berry was re-signed. The Solution of what looks like another great draft. McFadden was seen as a better CB prospect then Greer so lets not try and revise history here, most loved that FA pickup, I guess hindsight is 20/20 right.

Thus, not only are gifted players not gravitating to us, we are losing our own gifted players, (most of whom were signed originally by Denny Green). (While he was not a great coach or what I consider even a good man, he was a great evaluator of talent).

What gifted players? Dansby is the only one so far? You are talking as if some mass exodus has happened.

 

[joeshmo]

Catfish, I don't think that we're as far apart on this as you might think, but I wish that you'd be more specific. Particularly, how is waiting three weeks to sign Sharper and almost a full week to sign Jabari Greer being "agressive in identifying the need, and taking action on it"?

I know that people are heating up Bryant McFadden, but McFadden at least played in 16 games last season. Greer was good in the playoffs, but he only appeared in 9 games during the regular season. Based on value (since they're making about equal money), I would say that year one is about a wash.

There are few people on this board less willing to cut Rod Graves slack than I, but his free agency policy has been solid in my book. Again, I'd rather make headlines in December and January than in March.

There are two things that I have a serious problem with with Rod Graves. The first is that his in-league scouting program is terrible. It seems like the quality free agents we stumble into (like Bryan Robinson and Clark Haggans) are accidents, while the guys that we seem to really like and want to pay (like Travis Laboy and Al Johnson) don't fit in or don't work out. Part of the reason that I don't mind being patient in free agency is that I'd prefer not to strike out on these ten-figure contracts for guys that are going to be off the roster within 12 months.

The second problem that I have is that Graves has consistently placed the franchise's back against the wall because of his inability to correctly estimate the value of the players on his roster. The Cards missed out on a very good, very cheap FA signing in Brandon Chillar two years ago because he was farting around with the predictable contract escalation of Larry Fitzgerald. Last year, the Cards missed out on keeping a solid depth player like Monty Beisel because they were hamstrung with Kurt Warner in the wind and Karlos Dansby with the Franchise Tag.

The difference between Graves and the organizations he's said that he'd like to emulate (largely Philadelphia) is that Philly isn't often wrong in the estimations of the talent on their roster, so they don't regret the extensions that they hand out. I have little doubt that if Karlos Dansby was a Philadelphia Eagle, he would have been signed to an extension two-and-a-half years ago.

I'm also not going to get all over Whis and Graves for not hiring a better DC after last season. Remember that the Cards played in the Super Bowl that year; there weren't a lot of high-quality assistants on the market come the second or third week of February. Gregg Williams was hired January 15 of last year; the Cards had no shot at him. Pendergast didn't get fired until February 5. It's one thing to say that the Cards should have brought in an outsider, but who would you have brought in? Mike Nolan was hired by Denver on January 12. Dom Capers was hired January 19 in Green Bay. Keith Butler knows that he's going to get Dick LeBeau's job whenever he decides to step down; he's not going anywhere.

I think I will give K9 the Checkmate here. Nothing left to be said.

 

[joeshmo]

This year, there are a number of talented RFA's that we should be competing for, and can not afford to miss out on.

So you dont feel the need to take part in the draft this year by trading away all of our draft picks for RFA's?

 

[bg7brd]

Catfish, I don't think that we're as far apart on this as you might think, but I wish that you'd be more specific. Particularly, how is waiting three weeks to sign Sharper and almost a full week to sign Jabari Greer being "agressive in identifying the need, and taking action on it"?

I know that people are heating up Bryant McFadden, but McFadden at least played in 16 games last season. Greer was good in the playoffs, but he only appeared in 9 games during the regular season. Based on value (since they're making about equal money), I would say that year one is about a wash.

There are few people on this board less willing to cut Rod Graves slack than I, but his free agency policy has been solid in my book. Again, I'd rather make headlines in December and January than in March.

There are two things that I have a serious problem with with Rod Graves. The first is that his in-league scouting program is terrible. It seems like the quality free agents we stumble into (like Bryan Robinson and Clark Haggans) are accidents, while the guys that we seem to really like and want to pay (like Travis Laboy and Al Johnson) don't fit in or don't work out. Part of the reason that I don't mind being patient in free agency is that I'd prefer not to strike out on these ten-figure contracts for guys that are going to be off the roster within 12 months.

The second problem that I have is that Graves has consistently placed the franchise's back against the wall because of his inability to correctly estimate the value of the players on his roster. The Cards missed out on a very good, very cheap FA signing in Brandon Chillar two years ago because he was farting around with the predictable contract escalation of Larry Fitzgerald. Last year, the Cards missed out on keeping a solid depth player like Monty Beisel because they were hamstrung with Kurt Warner in the wind and Karlos Dansby with the Franchise Tag.

The difference between Graves and the organizations he's said that he'd like to emulate (largely Philadelphia) is that Philly isn't often wrong in the estimations of the talent on their roster, so they don't regret the extensions that they hand out. I have little doubt that if Karlos Dansby was a Philadelphia Eagle, he would have been signed to an extension two-and-a-half years ago.

I'm also not going to get all over Whis and Graves for not hiring a better DC after last season. Remember that the Cards played in the Super Bowl that year; there weren't a lot of high-quality assistants on the market come the second or third week of February. Gregg Williams was hired January 15 of last year; the Cards had no shot at him. Pendergast didn't get fired until February 5. It's one thing to say that the Cards should have brought in an outsider, but who would you have brought in? Mike Nolan was hired by Denver on January 12. Dom Capers was hired January 19 in Green Bay. Keith Butler knows that he's going to get Dick LeBeau's job whenever he decides to step down; he's not going anywhere.

I think this is an excellent post, however, I think Dansby is a special case. I think he's had the plan all along to reach FA and would have done the same thing no matter who drafted him.