The Cardinals Front Office: To Be Or Not To Be

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Mitch

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Well said Mitch ----- I would feel a whole lot better had Graves just said that he would be working hard to beef up the defense, instead of indicating that it would be business as usual. In my opinion, if he can't recognize that there is a deficiency there, he can't possibly fix it.

So right, Catfish. It would be music to my ears to hear "we are going to be pro-active to ensure we stay on top of the NFC West for years to come."
 

kerouac9

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So right, Catfish. It would be music to my ears to hear "we are going to be pro-active to ensure we stay on top of the NFC West for years to come."

From Sando's blog today:

Graves said the team is always looking for depth at linebacker and along the offensive line, identifying those positions as areas where the team could "pounce" on players if the opportunities present themselves.

I'm not sure what more that you guys want.
 
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Mitch

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From Sando's blog today:



I'm not sure what more that you guys want.

I'd agree with you, K9, if not for the fact that Graves' definition of "pouncing" is extending a UFA an invite to Glendale three to four weeks into free agency, giving a tour, having a conversation or two and taking three days to a week to decide what to do next. Now there's some "pouncing" for ya!

A bit exaggerated...but...this is the way it's been more often than not.
 

kerouac9

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I'd agree with you, K9, if not for the fact that Graves' definition of "pouncing" is extending a UFA an invite to Glendale three to four weeks into free agency, giving a tour, having a conversation or two and taking three days to a week to decide what to do next. Now there's some "pouncing" for ya!

A bit exaggerated...but...this is the way it's been more often than not.

No kidding exaggerated. Bryant McFadden was signed March 9 of last year, about 10 days into free agency. Al Johnson was signed March 5 the year before.
 

WildBB

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When they brought Whiz in they not only brought in a coach they IMO brought in a franchise strategy.

Solid creative coaching and a Pittsburg style of letting players go for the most part rather than paying them and building through the draft.

I know we have nothing but time here but it's pretty obvious to me that we're not going to be agressive in FA and we're not going to do many splashy trades.

I'm fine with it, it is what it is.

The real key to that is the coach, and how he builds a staff and approaches the games.

Whiz is the goose that lays the golden eggs IMO, Rod even though he never says it, IMO learned from DG to draft better and to take the BPA when possible.

Our entire future will rest on our drafting for the most part, it'll be like 75 to 80 percent of our success and that's fine with me also.

We don't have the money to be splashy or front load a ton of contracts, if we're going to keep players happy we'll have to be careful who that is and we'll lose players bottom line, because that's what their plan is IMO.

It'll work or not based on their drafting. Our scouts have to be good and so do our coaches to make it work.

This.

NO was in a unique postion and got bang for the buck. They succeded in getting their guys at reasonable rates. Pro's.

We will continue to bring in one key element at a time maybe two, and emphasise the draft and development. It's the only realistic means of extended success in todays pro economics unless your the Cowboys, Yankees, Sox, Lakers....et all. Otherwise it's just not feasable if your a mid-market team.

Teams also know the value of players and when they are priced out for the most. Sometimes you get solid vets who are just being replaced by younger cheaper talent. Those are the guys you bring in if possible, but they also have to want to be here.
 

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No kidding exaggerated. Bryant McFadden was signed March 9 of last year, about 10 days into free agency. Al Johnson was signed March 5 the year before.

Didn't we sign James, Brown & Clancy during the first few days of Free Agency as well when Green was here?
 

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I hear folks saying that the money that is available. When there is no ceiling or floor in the salary, then the money that is available could be zero or infinity. Unlike previous years, where we had to spend certain amount, what is the B family's ceiling. All GM's hands are tied by the owner(s) of the franchise.

The million dollar question (pun intended), how much are the Cards willing to spend.

I hear folks saying that the money that is available. When there is no ceiling or floor in the salary, then the money that is available could be zero or infinity. Unlike previous years, where we had to spend certain amount, what is the B family's ceiling. All GM's hands are tied by the owner(s) of the franchise.

The million dollar question (pun intended), how much are the Cards willing to spend.

I think that is an extraordinary point.

While everyone is talking about being able to pay X player due to an uncapped year, people seems to forget who runs these teams. There's a reason why almost all the owners are billionaires. They are buisnessmen first and sportsfans second.
The world is in the middle of a major economic crisis and the owners will surely take care of their own stuff before they looks to their team. I just don't see why they would overpay even though they can.

I would use the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as an example. They are owned by the Glazer-family. Though the Glazer's are not on the verge on bankruptcy, they can't just spend money like crazy. I'm sure some of the british guys on this board can tell you just how thrilled fans of Manchester United is to have Malcolm Glazer as the owner of their team.
I bring the Buccaneers up because some think they would be interested in trading for Boldin. I don't see that happening at all. They would probably have to give up a second round pick, which would be a lot cheaper than to extend Boldin.

I know this hasn't really been an issue in the NFL before, but I do believe that some would have to think twice before being sure that every owner can or will spend more than they use to.
 

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I'm sorry, but did you see premier pass rush help or lockdown blind side defenders either where we picked in the draft or in free agency last year or this one? Who were they?

The Cards did address LT and pass rush in the draft. They drafted Herman Johnson (who frees up either Levi Brown or Brandon Keith to play LT) and they drafted two OLBs. It's not Graves' fault that Cody Brown suffered a season-ending injury in training camp.

There's knowing where your weaknesses are and actually being able to do something about them. As an example, the Packers have needed an infusion of youth at OT (left and right) for at least three years. But when you look at who was available when they were drafting, there was never value. Need has to be tempered with BPA.

I'll give you the Cody Brown pick for the draft. The thing is we should have done alot more than that. As far as tackle goes we did nothing. If you have watched Herman Johnson at all you will have to agree that the man does not have the feet to be a tackle. I think he could turn out to be a fine guard but I see nothing in him that tells me he could be a LT or even a RT. The front office gave us a big wiff on last years off-season in free agency. I just hope that they get their act together this year and don't sit on their hands like they did last year.

This team has so much talent still that if we go out and get the few players that we need for our main weaknesses we can again make a run at the Superbowl. Now is the time to do this. In just a couple of years things can turn around in a hurry and we can be looking at a losing record. After watching this team since around 1970 I want us to take the bull by the horns and do whatever it takes to get the job done.
 

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I'll give you the Cody Brown pick for the draft. The thing is we should have done alot more than that. As far as tackle goes we did nothing. If you have watched Herman Johnson at all you will have to agree that the man does not have the feet to be a tackle. I think he could turn out to be a fine guard but I see nothing in him that tells me he could be a LT or even a RT. The front office gave us a big wiff on last years off-season in free agency. I just hope that they get their act together this year and don't sit on their hands like they did last year.

This team has so much talent still that if we go out and get the few players that we need for our main weaknesses we can again make a run at the Superbowl. Now is the time to do this. In just a couple of years things can turn around in a hurry and we can be looking at a losing record. After watching this team since around 1970 I want us to take the bull by the horns and do whatever it takes to get the job done.


Okay... so I'll ask you again: Whom would you get? Would you give up our first- and second-round picks for Elvis Dumervil? Who do you see out there as a premier pass rusher in a 3-4 defense that you'd like the Cards to sign?

And the same thing with LT. The Cards drafted a tackle two years ago in Brandon Keith that they're developing. From what I saw in training camp last season, I still think that Herman Johnson at his weight could play OT, as well. But you want to go with the quick fix, so who is out there who could play OLT and be a superior option to what we have now?
 

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Okay... so I'll ask you again: Whom would you get? Would you give up our first- and second-round picks for Elvis Dumervil? Who do you see out there as a premier pass rusher in a 3-4 defense that you'd like the Cards to sign?

And the same thing with LT. The Cards drafted a tackle two years ago in Brandon Keith that they're developing. From what I saw in training camp last season, I still think that Herman Johnson at his weight could play OT, as well. But you want to go with the quick fix, so who is out there who could play OLT and be a superior option to what we have now?

I don't see your logic on this point. There is another thread on this board that asks for which 3 FA's you would bring in. Nearly all of you posted your choices there. None of you were concerned with bucks then.

The point is, We need to address a back-up QB to Leinart. David Carr, and Chad Pennington are both FA's that can be had with less money than we were paying Warner. According to a lot of your posts already done on these two you agree that either could get the backup job done for us. So that could be one position adressed in Free Agency whiile keeping us under last years, cap.

We are about to lose Dansby. We can get Larry Foote, (another player that most of you like, and feel that can help us), as his replacement. We can surely get him for Dansby money last year, and maybe even a little less. That would be a big start on the Defense.

We need a solid nose tackle, and Ryan Pickett is available in FA. He will surely cost us more than we were paying Robinson, but he would provide a much more solid base to build our D-line around than Robinson would, Give him Robinson money and add some of the savings from Kurt's salary, and we can sign him and still be at or under last years cap.

Those are three solid, (and needed) signings, and they are reasonably priced, and they can be done IF they are targeted, and really worked at. They will not come to us however, if we just sit and twiddle our thumbs in free agency though.

None of those would cost us draft picks, and look what that might lead to in the draft: One scenario I like is to go with McCourty, CB, 6-1, 198, at the 26 pick. This guy WILL make a very solid Cornerback by the end of his first year with us. Meanwhile, he will earn his money by being a special teams freak. He is an excellent return man, AND he will solidify our coverage teams because he plays the run very well. He has great speed, and decent size and he will hit you. He can be doing this while he learns the intracacies of playing CB in the Bigs. That would give us fantastic depth by playoff time with DRC, Toler and McCourty. They would be young, fearsome, and nasty for years to come. Good move on our part, (for now, AND for the future). It will also free up Breaston on return teams.

Since we have Brown back, and have brought in the OLB (rush backer) from the CFL, we can still ad a piece to that position in the draft about the third round. (Koa Misi, OLB, Utah). While not a flashy pick, he is as solid a prospect as one can find for a rush-backer on that board, and that is what draft picks are, (prospects). He would also make a great special teamer his rookie year.

We might be able to get an ILB like Daryl Washington in the second round to step in behind Foote or Hayes. He would be another special teamer who will earn his paycheck the first year while he is learning his position.

If we made these three FA signings, and drafted these three prospects, we could let McFadden go, Freeing up another 5 mil in cap money to use for someone like Joey Porter. Even if we had to add some to that, we would not be stretch our budget much to bring him in here, and would have addressed all our defensive needs except FS.

We would still have 4 draft picks remaining to do that, plus look to OT and TE and QB trainee.

As I said, this is doable, and feasible. It takes care of most of our team needs with Free Agency, and leaves the draft for Quality depth. That has been a great formula for a lot of teams for a lot of years. It will only happen if we are VERY active in the FA market however. These FA's will not come running to us saying "sign me please".

If we were to be able to do something like this, it just might convince Rolle that he is better off staying here, and help to get him resigned to a long term deal.

There are other scenarios that are possible too, that may work just as well as this one, but none of them will happen if we don't try very hard to make it happen. In life, you only accomplish the very best if you dare to fail. If you don't even try, because you think it is too hard, then you lose before you start. That is the difference between winners and also rans.

A GM should be a sort of salesman for his franchise. He should be out there working to convince any worthwhile FA that this is a destination he will regret giving an authentic look at, before deciding to go elsewhere. We have sooooo much to offer, with our HC, Stadium, weather, living quality, and recent success. A good GM would be out there touting this points to players, AND showing them that we will pay fair market value.
 
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lauraw

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The sad part is that none of what you envisioned will come to pass because Graves is an average GM, nothing more. As long as Michael Bidwill strings him and his passive aggressive personality along, The Cards will not hit home runs in FA despite having Whizz at the plate, though I'll admit they do work the draft well together, if working the draft means keeping all your own draft picks every year, never trying to trade players for additional draft picks, etc, like the dynasties do..aaah wellMBidwill is putting in good effort anyway!
 

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The sad part is that none of what you envisioned will come to pass because Graves is an average GM, nothing more. As long as Michael Bidwill strings him and his passive aggressive personality along, The Cards will not hit home runs in FA despite having Whizz at the plate, though I'll admit they do work the draft well together, if working the draft means keeping all your own draft picks every year, never trying to trade players for additional draft picks, etc, like the dynasties do..aaah wellMBidwill is putting in good effort anyway!

Nope they were never going to hit HRs in FA but for a different reason than Graves being an average GM. Whisenhunt came from the Pittsburgh Steelers who rarely signed big name FAs and Graves has said that this team also said that this team is trying to emulate the Eagles style of FO. Combine those two strategies and you have a full FO/coaching staff that believes in building through the draft and adding a piece or two with moderate priced/level FAs.

Those that are expecting big names are going to be let down BIG TIME
 
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Nope they were never going to hit HRs in FA but for a different reason than Graves being an average GM. Whisenhunt came from the Pittsburgh Steelers who rarely signed big name FAs and Graves has said that this team also said that this team is trying to emulate the Eagles style of FO. Combine those two strategies and you have a full FO/coaching staff that believes in building through the draft and adding a piece or two with moderate priced/level FAs.

Those that are expecting big names are going to be let down BIG TIME

Very well put, EA. That's exactly what the situation is.
 

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A GM should be a sort of salesman for his franchise. He should be out there working to convince any worthwhile FA that this is a destination he will regret giving an authentic look at, before deciding to go elsewhere. We have sooooo much to offer, with our HC, Stadium, weather, living quality, and recent success. A good GM would be out there touting this points to players, AND showing them that we will pay fair market value.

This isn't just a GM's job. It also requires the head coach and owner to be involved if you plan on showing sincerity. I'm not so sure this isn't being done by all parties mentioned. This organization is a lot more attractive than it was only 2 short years ago.
 

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Catfish, I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to Snakester.

Snakester said that the Cards need to focus on getting a premier Left Offensive Tackle and Pass Rushing OLB in free agency. If they did that, he suggests the Cards would win the Super Bowl. I'd like to know whom he sees available out there to fill those roles. The best edge pass rusher out there is Julius Peppers. Does Snakester think that it's prudent that the Cards spend $105m on Peppers in the first three days of free agency? Because that's likely what it will take to sign him.

As for OT, I'm guessing that Snakester wanted Marcus McNeill. Is he willing to give up a first- and third-round pick, as well as an $80 million contract for him?
 

kerouac9

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A GM should be a sort of salesman for his franchise. He should be out there working to convince any worthwhile FA that this is a destination he will regret giving an authentic look at, before deciding to go elsewhere. We have sooooo much to offer, with our HC, Stadium, weather, living quality, and recent success. A good GM would be out there touting this points to players, AND showing them that we will pay fair market value.

How naive is this point? Players under 30 care about one thing and one thing only: who will pay them the most money.
 

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How naive is this point? Players under 30 care about one thing and one thing only: who will pay them the most money.

Maybe not so naive as you might think. At the very least, not so niave as the statement you just made. Many of them are married and have families. Those types also look to security, the type of communtiy and weather for their families, and ALL of them look at whether or not there is a chance at a Lombardi.

Our final loss in each of the past two years has been to the winner of the Super Bowl for that year. How many other teams can say that. You tell them, ("we are looking for someone to fill the position you play"). ("Our scouts tell me that you have those skills'). We are going to fill that position. We would prefer to fill it with you, but we WILL fill it regardless.

K-9, I am not sure why, but you seem to disagree with, and take offense with nearly every post I make. I know that I am not always correct, but EVERYBODY but you seems to know that I am not always wrong either. I don't know who you are, but I can't imagine having said or done something to make you react this way to nearly every one of my posts and threads. I would gladly apologize if I knew that I had done something to put a burr under your saddle, but right now I would'nt even know what to apologize for.
 
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kerouac9

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Maybe not so naive as you might think. Many of them are married and have families. Those types also look to security, the type of communtiy and weather for their families, and ALL of them look at whether or not there is a chance at a Lombardi.

Our final loss in each of the past two years has been to the winner of the Super Bowl for that year. How many other teams can say that. You tell them, ("we are looking for someone to fill the position you play"). ("Our scouts tell me that you have those skills'). We are going to fill that position. We would prefer to fill it with you, but we WILL fill it regardless.

And if they're getting their second contract, they'll say: Show me the money.

Can you give some examples of these under-28 players who go somewhere for less money but because it's a better opportunity? Yes, for some guys at the end of their careers, they can be coaxed back out onto the field for an opportunity to win a ring (like Junior Seau with New England or Derrick Mason in Baltimore). But even a lot of those guys are more like John Lynch headed to Denver or Emmitt Smith to Arizona or Jerry Rice to Seattle. One more signing bonus before retirement.
 

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Maybe not so naive as you might think. Many of them are married and have families. Those types also look to security, the type of communtiy and weather for their families, and ALL of them look at whether or not there is a chance at a Lombardi.

Our final loss in each of the past two years has been to the winner of the Super Bowl for that year. How many other teams can say that. You tell them, ("we are looking for someone to fill the position you play"). ("Our scouts tell me that you have those skills'). We are going to fill that position. We would prefer to fill it with you, but we WILL fill it regardless.

Cat,

You are not telling them anything they don't know. Arizona since building the new stadium and success on the field is as coveted a place to play as almost anywhere in the league. So, in the end, it comes down to $$$ and an opportunity to play and contribute.

Graves doesn't have to do the "huckster" thing, every agent in football with a client looking for a big payday or a job has Rod on speed dial.

Rod, Whiz, Keim, Michael B., and others, have probably completed their assessment of the present roster and the available FA with a good idea as to how they intend to approach re-signing their own, making offers to FA, and by the latter part of March, their first big draft board.
 

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Okay... so I'll ask you again: Whom would you get? Would you give up our first- and second-round picks for Elvis Dumervil? Who do you see out there as a premier pass rusher in a 3-4 defense that you'd like the Cards to sign?

And the same thing with LT. The Cards drafted a tackle two years ago in Brandon Keith that they're developing. From what I saw in training camp last season, I still think that Herman Johnson at his weight could play OT, as well. But you want to go with the quick fix, so who is out there who could play OLT and be a superior option to what we have now?

Because we used our first pick on Beanie that kind of hurt us a little bit drafting a OT or passrusher high in the draft. We did draft Cody Brown in the second, so at least they tried a little. We should have signed a guy and drafted a guy last year just like this year. We can sign a guy and draft a guy. There are plenty of players to pick from. Off the top of my head last year, Julian Peterson was available. There are a bunch of guys this year in both the draft and free agency. Quick fixes for right now at passrusher, Tully Banta Cain, Aaron Kampman, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Joey Porter. Also maybe we could get a guy like Shawn Merriman in some kind of deal even though he's restricted.

Where there is money and or a little trade bait there is a player to be had. If we go OT in this years draft there are so many guys i'm not going to break down every guy but I will list a bunch for you. We can always trade up to get somebody as well. Bryan Bulaga, Bruce Campbell, Trent Williams, Anthony Davis, Mike Iupati, Vladimir Ducasse, Charles Brown. There are three restricted free agents that wouldn't hurt to look into. Jared Gaither, Jammal Brown and Marcus McNeil. The thing is we need to go out and get somebody now, not next year or the year after. We have so much money now we can afford to go out and spend some on at least one top free agent.

Passrushers in this draft are plenty. There will be guys in both the first and second round to get. Brandon Graham is my first choice where we draft, but there are others. I think we need to draft OT and passrusher in the first two rounds.
 

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The thing is we need to go out and get somebody now, not next year or the year after. We have so much money now we can afford to go out and spend some on at least one top free agent.

People keep saying that we have all this money. Why do people keep saying that? If they are so sure we have all this money then how much do we have? If you know we have a lot then you should know at least an estimate right?

I ask these questions because you don't know how much money we have, how much is already spent and so on, so you are just guessing or using hyperbole to make a point at this point in time.
 

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Because we used our first pick on Beanie that kind of hurt us a little bit drafting a OT or passrusher high in the draft. We did draft Cody Brown in the second, so at least they tried a little. We should have signed a guy and drafted a guy last year just like this year. We can sign a guy and draft a guy. There are plenty of players to pick from. Off the top of my head last year, Julian Peterson was available. There are a bunch of guys this year in both the draft and free agency. Quick fixes for right now at passrusher, Tully Banta Cain, Aaron Kampman, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Joey Porter. Also maybe we could get a guy like Shawn Merriman in some kind of deal even though he's restricted.

Peterson was traded. Who would you have traded to a divisional rival and who would the Seahawks have excepted. Is Peterson even a 3-4 LB?

I would also disagree that there are plenty of players to pick from. Good even decent 3-4 OLB's that can rush the passer rarely hit the open market. The ones that do are let go for a reason. The few that do, have 12 to 15 other teams competing for their services. Heck even the guys you mentioned for this year - KVB isn't a LB, Kampman is a wild card in the 3-4(although I think it might work), Banta Cain is hit and miss who just got 10 sacks the first time in his career at the age of 29 and only 12.5 sacks in his 6 years prior, Porter is a old headcase who may or may not work, and Merriman do you want to trade away draft picks and a huge contract for him?
 

Snakester

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People keep saying that we have all this money. Why do people keep saying that? If they are so sure we have all this money then how much do we have? If you know we have a lot then you should know at least an estimate right?

I ask these questions because you don't know how much money we have, how much is already spent and so on, so you are just guessing or using hyperbole to make a point at this point in time.

We still have alot of our guys to re-sign yes. Watson on defense is the only guy that would get any money and I would think it wouldn't be over three million a year. Antrel Rolle is supposed to get 12 million but I think the Cards will redo his contract and I can see him counting half of that this year. And of course Dockett could be given a new contract. The figures that I looked up I even added a little to comes to about 70 million for the team. That doesn't include what we will pay our rookies and it doesn't include our re-signings. Just the guys under contract now.

On offense we still have to sign Sendlein, Lutui and possibly Claxton and Bridges for the o-line. Breaston at receiver. A backup QB. Maybe a fullback if we don't use Reagon Maui'a. Patrick and Becht at TE. Neil Rackers at K. I figure about 20 million for signing our guys. That brings the total up to about 90 million not including our draft picks. And this figure is with Rolle at 12 mil. according to ask the commish.com the salary cap for 2009 was about 127 mil. Also according to the commish.com the salary cap can't be lower than the previous year so the 2010 cap should be at least 127 mil if there is a cap and they come to some sort of agreement.

Anyway doing the math of 127mil salary cap minus 90 mil for salaries and re-signings that still leaves us with about 37 million in a normal capped year. Even if we sign Dockett to a new contract and give say 10 mil extra to him this year on top of the salary that I already have down for him that would still leave us 27 million. more than enough to sign almost any player in the league outside of Peyton Manning.

Now if you want to figure into the whole uncapped year stuff then its really whatever Bill Bidwills wallet will shell out on top of that figure. Now i'm sure I could be off a couple of mil somewhere but from what I see there is plenty of money to sign a few free agents.
 

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