The Dbacks offseason thread

[devilfan02]

First, I'm not at all a fan of the rumored three way deal. Arizona needs all the young pitching they can get, and trading Medders or Nippert would be moving backward from that need. Catching isn't as much of a dire need IMHO. Also, doesn't Estrada have a bad back?

Im banging my head over Javy vetoing that Detroit deal. Granderson is going to be a top flight CF, and Zumaya throws pure gas. That would have been a solid, solid deal for Arizona.

The Glaus-Manny-Prospects deal, I'd feel much better after I found out what the prospect list was. A package involving Aybar wouldn't be too bad. I'd also be happy with just Figgins and a prospect.

First off, it really pisses me off that a player making as much as Javy can demand a trade THEN tell us where he can and can not go. I don't care how far away from your family you are, when your making 12 mill a year you shut up and play. Freakin pre-maddonna. I wouldn't mind Estrada but why give up a prospect when we can sign Hernandez??? Looks like we're gonna free up a lot of money anyways by moving Glaus. On 910am this afternoon, Gambo and Ash reported that the Dbacks, Angels, and Red Sox were the primary teams invovled in the Manny/Glaus sweepstakes (as we all know). They said the Angels would get Manny, Red sox would get Glaus, and we'd get Matt Clement and prospects. They also said that the Twins would then trade for Mike Lowell. They could have good sources but its prob just rumors. Personally, if we trade Glaus I would love to get Figgins. I would almost do that trade straight up (Figgins makes nothing) and use a portion of that money to sign Figgins to an extension. Hit the FA pitching market in '06 with the rest of the money.

 

[devilfan02]

ESPN.com:

There is continuous buzz that the Red Sox and Diamondbacks have the makings of a two-team or three-team deal that could send Manny Ramirez to Arizona for Troy Glaus and Javier Vazquez, or a three-team version that would land Ramirez in Anaheim, Glaus and Darin Erstad in Boston and a combination of Angels and Red Sox prospects in Arizona. But, according to sources, the Diamondbacks haven't been approached about any of these trade scenarios and thus any three-team deal is highly unlikely to happen at this point. One reason, however, that the first deal makes sense is that Glaus and Vazquez are owed just under $57 million over the next three years -- nearly exactly as much as Ramirez. But a multi-team deal on Ramirez seems to make more sense, because Boston doesn't have any great need for Vazquez and the Angels don't have the thumper or thumpers to send to Boston in any two-team deal for Ramirez.

-ALSO-

The Cardinals have been saying publicly they're not in the market for a starting pitcher even though they've been outbid on A.J. Burnett. But there are continuing indications they're exploring a deal for Vazquez. "You can't be in the Burnett sweepstakes that heavily and not be looking at starting pitching," said an executive of one NL team.

 

[Kolo]

Well I posted the Vazquez to Detroit rumor which has since been shot down by Byrnes and Detroit--

So take these ESPN Insider "reports" with a grain of salt (although they're being spoken of as done deals)--

Kris Benson to Kansas City for Jeremy Affeldt and another player.

Julio Lugo to Boston, Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay (ouch).

Alfonso Soriano to L.A. for Jonathon Broxton.

 

[devilfan02]

I am going to say it again but if your going to trade Vazquez get pitching prospects for him. Hernandez or Molina would fill our void at C, trade for stop gap CF Kenny Lofton until Upton is ready whenever that is, go after Luis Matos, play Quentin in CF, or we put Drew at CF so we can bring him up. Bob Howry would be a nice addition to the bullpen along with Bob Wickman. We need to stock our AA and AAA teams with arms that are close to the major leagues and Vazquez and Glaus are the only two pieces that can make that happen.

I agree with you regarding the catcher situation. But why would you want Kenny Lofton??? That would not be an easy trade as it would would most likely call for some pitching prospects and a decent position prospect. He made 3 mill last year so he's not cheap. Also, Quentin is not a CF and should not be played there. Plus, from all indications he's not MLB ready and their making the point of not rushing him. Drew and Upton are also not CF's although they could be put there (most likey Upton) but ONLY if needed. I would rather see those two playing 2nd and SS for years to come. IMO, Byrnes is going the right way in this trade by trying to find a young talented CF (along with pitching prospects) in the Javy or Glaus trade. If we could get a guy like Gathright or Figgins in a trade, we can focus primarily on pitching. Our positon players would be set for the next several years (Jackson, Upton, Drew, Tracy, Quentin, Gaithright...)

 

[devilfan02]

Well I posted the Vazquez to Detroit rumor which has since been shot down by Byrnes and Detroit--

So take these ESPN Insider "reports" with a grain of salt (although they're being spoken of as done deals)--

Kris Benson to Kansas City for Jeremy Affeldt and another player.

Julio Lugo to Boston, Edgar Renteria to Atlanta, Andy Marte to Tampa Bay (ouch).

Alfonso Soriano to L.A. for Jonathon Broxton.

I heard today that the Javy to Detroit trade got turned down at the winter meetings in Palm Sprongs which were a month ago. Javy's agent found out and quickly added Detroit to the list of 6 teams he could nix. As I've said in many other posts, most of these reports are from Boston "Speculation" Gammons who is known for reporting crap. However, this is whats great about the MLB offseason- speculation. What could be........

 

[devilfan02]

New Baltimore backstop?
Dec 7 - The Orioles have offered catcher Ramon Hernandez a four-year deal worth about $27 million, The Baltimore Sun reports. The Rangers reportedly also are serious about Hernandez.

 

[overseascardfan]

Why are the D-backs waiting to sign a C. Hernandez and Molina are the only two good ones out there. Neither are going for morethan 7 million a year so what is the hold up? Baltimore and Texas are going to come in and sign these two leaving us with a hole at C. I prefer Hernandez to Molina and since Baltimore has reportedly offered him 4 yrs and 27 million we should go for 4 yrs, 28 million. Does anyone see anything out there better than Hernandez or Molina that won't cost much in trade or know why they aren't making offers to either player?

 

[devilfan02]

Why are the D-backs waiting to sign a C. Hernandez and Molina are the only two good ones out there. Neither are going for morethan 7 million a year so what is the hold up? Baltimore and Texas are going to come in and sign these two leaving us with a hole at C. I prefer Hernandez to Molina and since Baltimore has reportedly offered him 4 yrs and 27 million we should go for 4 yrs, 28 million. Does anyone see anything out there better than Hernandez or Molina that won't cost much in trade or know why they aren't making offers to either player?

Prob because we're trying to trade for Estrada..... I prefer Hernandez as well- younger and better offensively

 

[Diamondback Jay]

If I had my druthers, I'd rather bring in Paul Bako or Todd Pratt for a year or two, and let Snyder and Montero continue develop. I don't think either is far away from being ready to routinely start.

If you throw a big, lengthy contract in the direction of Molina or Hernandez, it only stunts the long term development of the two.

Just my .02

Also, an LA Times report states that if the rumored three way Boston, LA and Arizona deal goes down, one of the names that will be headed to Arizona is Scot Shields.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

More Rumors.

Source

There was talk of a deal with the Diamondbacks that would send disgruntled outfielder Manny Ramirez to Arizona for pitcher Javier Vazquez and third baseman Troy Glaus. Boston also was still talking to the Angels about Ramirez, while the Mets' chances of getting him seemed to be waning.

COMMENT: The combined contracts of Vazquez and Glaus roughly equal what's left on Ramirez's deal, so this would be a financial wash. But Vazquez was a bust with the Yankees two years ago, and Glaus, while powerful, can't replace Manny's run production. Still, if they have to deal Manny, they could do worse.


Also, the Cubs have inquired about the availability of Shawn Green, a Chicago native.

 

[devilfan02]

Looks like the possibility of another fire sale this offseason, but in a better way. I don't know about the Shawn Green trade, especially if we trade Glaus. Tracy would move to 3rd and we shouldn't rush Quentin. We'd have to get a very good prospect from the Cubs IMO. While Green is average, I think he would be missed in RF and at the plate. As for Shields, he would be a good addition but we better get some very good prospects as well. I would rather see a young CF who can leadoff but that might get done in the Javy trade. Shields is a great setup man who would be a huge addition. He's 30, which isn't too bad, and made just under a million last year. I'm not sure what his contract calls for the next couple years but if we do acquire him, we should consider extending him with some of the money available from Glaus. Montero is only 22 and is starting next year in Double A. He is far from being MLB ready and should be in the minors for at least 2 more years. IMO, we should sign Hernandez to a 4 year, 28 mill deal and ease Montero into the Bigs. I don't see a problem with keeping him in the minors for the next 2 to 2 1/2 years (full AA season and 1 1/2 years in AAA) and bringing him up when Hernandez' deal is close to up. He could get a season and a half to share duties and ease into MLB catching, pitching, and batting. I think thats where we screwed up with Snyder. We didn't have a quality catcher to take some pressure off of him. We threw him in the fire with fellow rookie Koyie Hill and Kelly Stinett.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I'd be ecstatic if we got rid of Shawn Green's contract although I think we'd have to chip in some cash in order to do so. I'm also confused as to how we'd acquire Manny with Gonzo still on the team. Neither of those guys can play anywhere other than LF.

 

[Lefty]

If the Diamondbacks ever do get Manny, Gonzo would then have to be traded because I don't think Manny can play first, even though the guy can't play left either. Plus, we have Conor and Clark at first.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

But why would you want Kenny Lofton???

Kenny Lofton vs. Juan Pierre 2002-2004

Lofton
OPS - 770
OBP - 362

Pierre
OPS - 732
OBP - 354

Kenny Lofton vs Juan Pierre 2005

Lofton
OPS - 812
OBP - 392

Pierre
OPS - 680
OBP - 326

 

[overseascardfan]

Well Estrada is very similiar to Molina and Hernandez in that they are offensive C's headed into their 30's, w/ Estrada saving us 6.5 million. So mow we are looking at pitching and CF. Urbina, Howry, Alfonseca, Rincon, Wickman, and Hoffman are all still available, I would go after Rincon and Howry personally. Former Wildcat Kenny Lofton anyone?

As for Vazquez and Glaus, trade them in seperate deals in order to get more for them. How about Glaus for Zito? The A's are looking for a bat and can either put Glaus at 1st or DH. Wouldn't it be great if someone would take Ortiz like the Sox took Lowell in the the Beckett trade?

 

[Evil Ash]

Well Estrada is very similiar to Molina and Hernandez in that they are offensive C's headed into their 30's, w/ Estrada saving us 6.5 million. So mow we are looking at pitching and CF. Urbina, Howry, Alfonseca, Rincon, Wickman, and Hoffman are all still available, I would go after Rincon and Howry personally. Former Wildcat Kenny Lofton anyone?

As for Vazquez and Glaus, trade them in seperate deals in order to get more for them. How about Glaus for Zito? The A's are looking for a bat and can either put Glaus at 1st or DH. Wouldn't it be great if someone would take Ortiz like the Sox took Lowell in the the Beckett trade?

The As couldn't afford Glaus's contract or Vazquez for that matter. When the As get involved in a trade its to dump payroll and get prospects in return, whether it be in a straight up or a multiple team deal

BTW Like the Estrada move

 

[Evil Ash]

I'd be ecstatic if we got rid of Shawn Green's contract although I think we'd have to chip in some cash in order to do so. I'm also confused as to how we'd acquire Manny with Gonzo still on the team. Neither of those guys can play anywhere other than LF.

If I understand the rumor correctly, the Angels would be the team to get Ramirez. The Red Sox would get Glaus (and I'm guessing would immediately ship Lowell) and the Dbacks would get prospects.

I don't see us getting Manny for 2 main reasons ... a) we don't really have a need for him (he's not a CF which is what we need) and b) This trade requires Manny waving his no trade clause and I can't see him doing that to play here

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

If I understand the rumor correctly, the Angels would be the team to get Ramirez. The Red Sox would get Glaus (and I'm guessing would immediately ship Lowell) and the Dbacks would get prospects.

That's one rumor, but this one states that only us and the Sox would be involved.

There was talk of a deal with the Diamondbacks that would send disgruntled outfielder Manny Ramirez to Arizona for pitcher Javier Vazquez and third baseman Troy Glaus.

 

[Evil Ash]

That's one rumor, but this one states that only us and the Sox would be involved.

My mistake ... but I just don't see that deal happening

 

[BillsCarnage]

If I understand the rumor correctly, the Angels would be the team to get Ramirez. The Red Sox would get Glaus (and I'm guessing would immediately ship Lowell) and the Dbacks would get prospects.

I don't see us getting Manny for 2 main reasons ... a) we don't really have a need for him (he's not a CF which is what we need) and b) This trade requires Manny waving his no trade clause and I can't see him doing that to play here

This was mentioned last night on the ASR, but it doesn't look like it'll happen. I don't think the Dbacks really want Manny nor would they want to pay his contract.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

Urbina, Howry, Alfonseca, Rincon, Wickman, and Hoffman are all still available, I would go after Rincon and Howry personally. Former Wildcat Kenny Lofton anyone?

As for Vazquez and Glaus, trade them in seperate deals in order to get more for them. How about Glaus for Zito? The A's are looking for a bat and can either put Glaus at 1st or DH. Wouldn't it be great if someone would take Ortiz like the Sox took Lowell in the the Beckett trade?

IIRC, Urbina was arrested and charged with committing murder in his native Venezuela and I believe he hasnt yet been on trial, so more than likely he wont be even allowed in the US any time soon..let alone play in the ML again.... Howry was signed by the Cubs about 2 wks ago......

Although, I do agree that Rincon, Wickman along with Todd Jones would be appealing and then also Jose Mesa and Julio Tavarez are still on the market...

I would be impressed if the Dbacks signed Lofton, however, he is probably demanding a multi-year deal and I dont envision the Dbacks offering him that.... Also, would he be willing to be on another rebuilding team over one that is currently able to immediately contend and win? I dont think so....

The Athletics wouldnt want anything to do w/Glaus since he doesnt suit Beane's "Money Ball" philosophy..plus they already have Chavez at 3B and have Swisher/Hattenberg/Johnson splitting time at 1B... True, they're trying to lure Frank Thomas to be their DH, however, he certainly would come quite cheaper and short-term compared to Glaus.....

It appears that Vargas might be used as a spot-starter who will pich long-relief, that Medders will take over for what Cormier did last year and that Valverde and Aquino will split the closing duty.....I just cant project Lyon's role since Im not completely aware that he is fully recovered... Also, I wouldnt be shocked if the Dbacks shop Koplove.. he could net some lower level prospects......

 

[devilfan02]

Kenny Lofton vs. Juan Pierre 2002-2004

Lofton
OPS - 770
OBP - 362

Pierre
OPS - 732
OBP - 354

Kenny Lofton vs Juan Pierre 2005

Lofton
OPS - 812
OBP - 392

Pierre
OPS - 680
OBP - 326

I dont care about his numbers compared to Pierre. Pierres long gone- Cubs. Lofton is 39 where Pierre is 28. I said I don't want Lofton because we're going to have to give up too much to fill a 2 year gap in CF (Plus, he's making 3mill per year, maybe more next year). Even if Philly just got Rowand, it will still take a couple prospects to obtain him. Plus, who's saying Lofton gonna have a year like last??? Same with Pierre...

 

[BOB_Man24]

I dont care about his numbers compared to Pierre. Pierres long gone- Cubs. Lofton is 39 where Pierre is 28. I said I don't want Lofton because we're going to have to give up too much to fill a 2 year gap in CF (Plus, he's making 3mill per year, maybe more next year). Even if Philly just got Rowand, it will still take a couple prospects to obtain him. Plus, who's saying Lofton gonna have a year like last??? Same with Pierre...

In all likelyhood it seems to me that Pierre will have a bounce back year. Lofton just keeps going and going and i woudnt be opposed to getting him if we could get him cheaply. But there has to be something better out there? right?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Lofton's a free agent who will likely take a short contract, no prospects will have to be sacrificed unless forfeiting a draft pick is involved. I don't think it matters though, I'm guessing Lofton ends up wherever Johnny Damon doesn't betwen New York and Boston.

 

[devilfan02]

Lofton's a free agent who will likely take a short contract, no prospects will have to be sacrificed unless forfeiting a draft pick is involved. I don't think it matters though, I'm guessing Lofton ends up wherever Johnny Damon doesn't betwen New York and Boston.

Are you sure Lofton's a FA??? I heard he wasn't but it would make sense as the Phillys acquired Rowand??