The good and the bad

[RugbyMuffin]

Good:


1. We won - Seriously what else needs to be said.

2. Max Hall - You want to talk intangibles. Little crazy, top of the food chain competitor, see the field great, makes the throws needed. We have our QB of at least the next 3 games or more.

3. Our Cornerbacks - You tell me who you would throw at ? DRC - LOL, no. Toler - OK, but you are playing with fire. If we had a pass rush, oh the things we could do on defense. The craziest thing, is Toler is the most complete of the two, yet DRC is ridiculously talented.

4. Special Teams - Best in the league, IMO. The worst of the entire core is our PR, whom I believe will get better and right now is average. Our punter pretty much got us 10 points last week, Feeley is consistant, our KR is deadly, and our return teams are stout (Kickoff can be shaky)

5. Alan Branch - Seriously. Alan f'n Branch. WHERE THE HECK HAVE YOU BEEN !?!?!?! Look after the draft where we picked this guy up. I was extremely happy about the pick. Then Branch just sucked, sucked, sucked, and little by little he would show his potential. The last two games ? Let's put it this way. Campbell should NOT be starting, and will not be if this continues. I think what did it this year, is his technique is MUCH improved, and it allows him to play the game he wants to, and know he can do.


The Bad:
Seriously, there was still some bad stuff going down.

1. Max Hall - Gotta learn or adjust to how fast the safeties are in this league. If you are down by two TD's, and you are going in to score the first of two needed TD's, and you kill yourself, then you cannot score the 2nd TD to tie the game up, or the FG to win it. Max Hall has two weeks to calm down, and then see how he performs when he is a little more calm/assertive. Cause if he plays like this, he will never make 5 games, let alone 16. He knows this, and will work on it, but still. He has a LOOOOOoooong way to go.

2. Beanie Wells - Point #1: Shooting your mouth off about touches, after barely recovering from knee surgery. Point #2: At 239lbs, you gotta start picking up 2nd & 3 for 1st downs. And he wonders why he watches the goal line packages on the sideline. 20 carries for 35 yards ? Marcel Shipp could do that for us, and we would never hear a complaint out of him. Potential don't mean jack squat, until it becomes production. How many runs over 20 yards does Beanie have ? Everyone is running behind the same line, Beanie better concentrate on getting healthy, and picking his game up.

3. Play Calling - 2nd and Goal and you pass. 3rd and a mouse fart and you pass. Maybe Hightower, Beanie, Maui'a and our HUGE-NORMOUS offensive line is a bunch of pansies. I dunno. But, I would be insulted as a unit for those play calls. POUND THE ROCK. Has James Harrison taught us nothing about this ?

4. Calias Campbell - Who? Blame our NT, blame Porter. Campbell is sucking it against the run, and his pass rushing has been HORRIBLE. Ugly, disgusting. Very, very disapointed in his play.

5. Interior OL - I don't see it. How is Lutui our best O-linemen ? He can pass block for sure, but his run blocking is putrid, and next Sendlien who is also doing a very poor job, there is nothing. Just like we bash Robinson for getting knocked around, Sendlien is worthless as a run blocker. We gotta get some guys in here that can open up some holes.

 

[Rats]

Agree with most, do not agree with Beanie on the bad list. Yes he asked for the rock after not being used much. He showed some flashes of being the guy we want to see running the football. However the Saints gameplanned for us to run the ball most plays and dared Hall to throw. Using the Bean like we did kept the time of possession (that I said last week would be critical for us to win) even. His contribution in yards may have been dismal but he showed up on key plays in the 4th qt and then the coach called for a pass play on 3rd and inches( with Beanie picking up 9 and a half yards on 1st and 2nd down against a stacked box). People can blast him for shooting his mouth last week but I do know this he helped keep the Saints Offense on the sidelines yesterday and it should be seen as one of the keys to our victory. We didn't get any points but it slowed them down. Try and look at it that way.

 

[Cardiac]

Good:


1. We won - Seriously what else needs to be said.

2. Max Hall - You want to talk intangibles. Little crazy, top of the food chain competitor, see the field great, makes the throws needed. We have our QB of at least the next 3 games or more.

Yep.

3. Our Cornerbacks - You tell me who you would throw at ? DRC - LOL, no. Toler - OK, but you are playing with fire. If we had a pass rush, oh the things we could do on defense. The craziest thing, is Toler is the most complete of the two, yet DRC is ridiculously talented.

I wish DRC wasn't allergic to tackling and take plays off occasionaly. I expect Toler to keep improving in coverage (he's very solid now) and love his tackling.

4. Special Teams - Best in the league, IMO. The worst of the entire core is our PR, whom I believe will get better and right now is average. Our punter pretty much got us 10 points last week, Feeley is consistant, our KR is deadly, and our return teams are stout (Kickoff can be shaky)

Good assesment.

5. Alan Branch - Seriously. Alan f'n Branch. WHERE THE HECK HAVE YOU BEEN !?!?!?! Look after the draft where we picked this guy up. I was extremely happy about the pick. Then Branch just sucked, sucked, sucked, and little by little he would show his potential. The last two games ? Let's put it this way. Campbell should NOT be starting, and will not be if this continues. I think what did it this year, is his technique is MUCH improved, and it allows him to play the game he wants to, and know he can do.

A couple of interviews this year he has talked about his change in attitude, that he now gets what it takes to prepare and be ready to play. He is in the best shape of his career so that also helps.

2 press conferences in a row Whiz has praised Branch for his play. It appeared to me he got a LOT more playing time this week.


The Bad:
Seriously, there was still some bad stuff going down.

1. Max Hall - Gotta learn or adjust to how fast the safeties are in this league. If you are down by two TD's, and you are going in to score the first of two needed TD's, and you kill yourself, then you cannot score the 2nd TD to tie the game up, or the FG to win it. Max Hall has two weeks to calm down, and then see how he performs when he is a little more calm/assertive. Cause if he plays like this, he will never make 5 games, let alone 16. He knows this, and will work on it, but still. He has a LOOOOOoooong way to go.


yep.


2. Beanie Wells - Point #1: Shooting your mouth off about touches, after barely recovering from knee surgery. Point #2: At 239lbs, you gotta start picking up 2nd & 3 for 1st downs. And he wonders why he watches the goal line packages on the sideline. 20 carries for 35 yards ? Marcel Shipp could do that for us, and we would never hear a complaint out of him. Potential don't mean jack squat, until it becomes production. How many runs over 20 yards does Beanie have ? Everyone is running behind the same line, Beanie better concentrate on getting healthy, and picking his game up.

Spot on.

3. Play Calling - 2nd and Goal and you pass. 3rd and a mouse fart and you pass. Maybe Hightower, Beanie, Maui'a and our HUGE-NORMOUS offensive line is a bunch of pansies. I dunno. But, I would be insulted as a unit for those play calls. POUND THE ROCK. Has James Harrison taught us nothing about this ?

I disagree. Whiz has one of the best Red zone scoring offenses over the past 2 years. Of course Warner get some credit but Whiz calls the plays. Whiz has a long term plan that he melds with short term goals. After he joked about the Levi TD being exectuted just as he planned it he said they were in the wrong formation and one of the WR's, who would have been open, ran the wrong route.

4. Calias Campbell - Who? Blame our NT, blame Porter. Campbell is sucking it against the run, and his pass rushing has been HORRIBLE. Ugly, disgusting. Very, very disapointed in his play.

He does appear to be experiencing a sophmore slump. He does need to snap out of it.

5. Interior OL - I don't see it. How is Lutui our best O-linemen ? He can pass block for sure, but his run blocking is putrid, and next Sendlien who is also doing a very poor job, there is nothing. Just like we bash Robinson for getting knocked around, Sendlien is worthless as a run blocker. We gotta get some guys in here that can open up some holes.

Judging O-line play is very difficult, especailly when they are underperforming. Who is missing the assignment? We can't truly know since none of us are privy to the schemes etc.

Remember when everyone was bashing Wells and then the news came out that he was the best/most consistent lineman on the team.

Many bashed Big and he made huge money in FA and has been to a couple of ProBowls.

Sendlien is now a captain and the Coaches love him. So while my eyes tell me what you just stated I can't say I or you are correct.

Great overall post.

 

[Shane]

Agree with most, do not agree with Beanie on the bad list. Yes he asked for the rock after not being used much. He showed some flashes of being the guy we want to see running the football. However the Saints gameplanned for us to run the ball most plays and dared Hall to throw. Using the Bean like we did kept the time of possession (that I said last week would be critical for us to win) even. His contribution in yards may have been dismal but he showed up on key plays in the 4th qt and then the coach called for a pass play on 3rd and inches( with Beanie picking up 9 and a half yards on 1st and 2nd down against a stacked box). People can blast him for shooting his mouth last week but I do know this he helped keep the Saints Offense on the sidelines yesterday and it should be seen as one of the keys to our victory. We didn't get any points but it slowed them down. Try and look at it that way.

Sorry but I will never view 1.7 YPC on 20 carries as a "key" to victory. That game is an anomaly.

Teams are going to continue to stack the box and regardless we are goins to need him to be in the 3.5 ypc range minimum in order to move the chains.

If he is "elite" like so many on here claim he must do better stacked box or not!

 

[MrYeahBut]

Sorry but I will never view 1.7 YPC on 20 carries as a "key" to victory. That game is an anomaly.

Teams are going to continue to stack the box and regardless we are goins to need him to be in the 3.5 ypc range minimum in order to move the chains.

If he is "elite" like so many on here claim he must do better stacked box or not!

The only stat the Cards don't suck at is probably KO returns...that and being 3-2. Hell, Cards are like -50 in total points. I'm not going to bag on Beanie when nobody on the team has been a world beater.

I do agree that kind of run production isn't going to cut it

 

[Rats]

Sorry but I will never view 1.7 YPC on 20 carries as a "key" to victory. That game is an anomaly.

Teams are going to continue to stack the box and regardless we are goins to need him to be in the 3.5 ypc range minimum in order to move the chains.

If he is "elite" like so many on here claim he must do better stacked box or not!

He is and he has and he will! 5 more carries and he may have another 40 yards. Who can tell. The gameplan was to stop him and they did. But it got us TIME OF POSSESSION that we have not been getting. It was key. Max didn't do great at getting him the ball either with his hips squared. All were factors in his poor results but he did contribute.

 

[Buckybird]

Good stuff Rugby.

Was it me or did the majority of the runs go to the right side of the Oline? Puzzling but I consider the left side to be better run blockers & I keep yelling it.

 

[desertdawg]

Good stuff Rugby.

Was it me or did the majority of the runs go to the right side of the Oline? Puzzling but I consider the left side to be better run blockers & I keep yelling it.

I noticed that as well. Kept going to the right or up the gut.

 

[Duckjake]

The only stat the Cards don't suck at is probably KO returns...that and being 3-2. Hell, Cards are like -50 in total points. I'm not going to bag on Beanie when nobody on the team has been a world beater.

I do agree that kind of run production isn't going to cut it

Exactly. What did Hightower get? 6 yards on 4 carries? Last week the Cards only managed 47 yards rushing. 9 sacks allowed vs the Chargers. 4 more yesterday. It's not our RBs that are the problem.

I've seen both Beanie and Timmy perform at a high level in big games. I haven't seen the current offensive line perform at even a medium level in any type of game.

 

[Seandonic]

Exactly. What did Hightower get? 6 yards on 4 carries? Last week the Cards only managed 47 yards rushing. 9 sacks allowed vs the Chargers. 4 more yesterday. It's not our RBs that are the problem.

I've seen both Beanie and Timmy perform at a high level in big games. I haven't seen the current offensive line perform at even a medium level in any type of game.

Wow! Someone here actually gets it. Let me just add that the single most important part of a football team is...THE O-LINE! Until this unit "jells" or has its weak links identified and replaced, the Cardinals as a team...WILL FAIL!
If you have no time to make reads and get a pass delivered, it does not matter if your Joe Montana or Peyton Manning, you will look hurried, indecisive, and perhaps even atrocious (DA).
If you have no blocks to run behind, or lanes to run through, you would have to be a talent the likes of Jim Brown or Barry Sanders to produce at even close to a high level.
If thanks to the afore mentioned problems, your offense consistently goes three and out, you will exhaust the defense, thus eventually rendering them useless.
The fact that some "fans" claim to have watched the game of football for so long and still can not grasp this concept is beyond me.

 

[Shane]

Wow! Someone here actually gets it. Let me just add that the single most important part of a football team is...THE O-LINE! Until this unit "jells" or has its weak links identified and replaced, the Cardinals as a team...WILL FAIL!
If you have no time to make reads and get a pass delivered, it does not matter if your Joe Montana or Peyton Manning, you will look hurried, indecisive, and perhaps even atrocious (DA).
If you have no blocks to run behind, or lanes to run through, you would have to be a talent the likes of Jim Brown or Barry Sanders to produce at even close to a high level.
If thanks to the afore mentioned problems, your offense consistently goes three and out, you will exhaust the defense, thus eventually rendering them useless.
The fact that some "fans" claim to have watched the game of football for so long and still can not grasp this concept is beyond me.

Try watching this video: http://www.azcardinals.com/photos-v...-Presser/7b3ea89a-9698-42cd-b4f0-788c008e00cf

Whiz clearly states that after watching the tape there were holes to run through and we just plain and simply missed them.

Many "elite" backs over the years make something out of nothing. Even behind less than stellar O-lines. At some point talent will get you a 50+ yard run even if you have to work for it and break a few tackles to get it.

So many people refer to Beanie as "elite" around here. So many people say that when he hits a pile he will get a push every time. So many people around here claim that Beanie makes the first guy miss and will always get more yards after contact.

All of which was severely lacking in that game yesterday. Which is what Rugby is referring to.

The O-line doesn't help sure. But lets not use it as the ultimate excuse.

 

[Seandonic]

Try watching this video: http://www.azcardinals.com/photos-v...-Presser/7b3ea89a-9698-42cd-b4f0-788c008e00cf

Whiz clearly states that after watching the tape he states that there were holes to run through and we just plain and simply missed them.

Many "elite" backs over the years make something out of nothing. Even behind less than stellar O-lines. At some point talent will get you a 50+ yard run even if you have to work for it and break a few tackles to get it.

So many people refer to Beanie as "elite" around here. So many people say that when he hits a pile he will get a push every time. So many people around here claim that Beanie makes the first guy miss and will always get more yards after contact.

All of which was severely lacking in that game yesterday. Which is what Rugby is referring to.

The O-line doesn't help sure. But lets not use it as the ultimate excuse.

This is exactly the kind of thinking I was referring to. You basically said the same thing I said about a RB having to be extremely talented to produce behind a poor line but then you won't put the blame where it rightfully belongs: THE O-LINE.
Beanie is not an elite back, which is all the more reason a better than average O-line is needed.
Let me put it to you this way: If you have a Ferrari and are stuck behind traffic, it does not matter how fast you can go...BUT...if you have a convoy of eighteen wheelers plowing the traffic out of the way of a Yugo, it doesn't matter that the Yugo can't reach seventy miles an hour...you are going to roll on down the highway.
By the way Shane, I really appreciated your camp reports, they were very informative. Thanks.

 

[Duckjake]

Try watching this video: http://www.azcardinals.com/photos-v...-Presser/7b3ea89a-9698-42cd-b4f0-788c008e00cf

Whiz clearly states that after watching the tape there were holes to run through and we just plain and simply missed them.

Many "elite" backs over the years make something out of nothing. Even behind less than stellar O-lines. At some point talent will get you a 50+ yard run even if you have to work for it and break a few tackles to get it.

So many people refer to Beanie as "elite" around here. So many people say that when he hits a pile he will get a push every time. So many people around here claim that Beanie makes the first guy miss and will always get more yards after contact.

All of which was severely lacking in that game yesterday. Which is what Rugby is referring to.

The O-line doesn't help sure. But lets not use it as the ultimate excuse.

No rushing or passing TDs, 13 sacks in the last 2 games! Hightower's last two games he has 11 carries for 30 yards. It's not the RB its the offensive line. I don't care what kind of spin the coaches put on the mess they created up front.

 

[JeffGollin]

I think we're beginning to settle into better understanding "who we are."

- Hall & his receivers have the capacity to grow - and that's an exciting thing.

- I think we're stuck with a hit or miss running attack behind an O-line that will remain inconsistent both as run blockers and pass blockers. (I wish they'd get better; I'm becoming reconciled to the fact that this is who they are).

- We have a "Little Girl With the Curl" defense (when they're good, they're very good but...yada yada).

- Special Teams - punts/kicks/returns/coverage are top quintile.

What it all boils down to is: (1) the defense and ST consistently playing to the standards set in the NO game and (2) Hall & his receivers continuing to get better week by week.

Just do those two things and we'll be fine.

 

[BurqueCardFan]

Last year, it seemed like Beanie was a lot harder to bring down. It seemed like he would run through a lot of tackles. This year he seems to go down from far to many arm tackles or as soon as he makes contact at the line. I could be wrong, but it looked that way during this game from the stands. And after watching A Peterson in the Monday night game, it was even more evident. That guys makes so many yards after contact, pushing the pile even when there is no hole to run through.

 

[chickenhead]

Good:2. Max Hall - You want to talk intangibles. Little crazy, top of the food chain competitor, see the field great, makes the throws needed. We have our QB of at least the next 3 games or more.

I kind of love this. Hall is our Our QBOTNTG.

Seriously, though, it is interesting watching him after Leinart as someone not afraid to make mistakes compared to someone who seemed limited by that fear.

 

[DieHardCardFan]

Great break down Rugby!!

 

[Shane]

This is exactly the kind of thinking I was referring to. You basically said the same thing I said about a RB having to be extremely talented to produce behind a poor line but then you won't put the blame where it rightfully belongs: THE O-LINE.
Beanie is not an elite back, which is all the more reason a better than average O-line is needed.
Let me put it to you this way: If you have a Ferrari and are stuck behind traffic, it does not matter how fast you can go...BUT...if you have a convoy of eighteen wheelers plowing the traffic out of the way of a Yugo, it doesn't matter that the Yugo can't reach seventy miles an hour...you are going to roll on down the highway.
By the way Shane, I really appreciated your camp reports, they were very informative. Thanks.

Listen I agree with you that the O-line is a problem. I believe it hinders GOOD RB's like Beanie AND Timmy.

The problem I have and the reason I debate it is this:

There are a large # of posters on this board who refer to Beanie as "elite" already. Or they say that if he gets 20 or more carries a game he will be "elite" etc... etc.... They say that not one guy can bring him down or that he makes people miss or is guaranteed to get you 3 yards or pick up a 1st down on third and short. Well I saw a lot of getting stuffed right at the point of contact and quite a bit of one man tackles on Beanie in that game on Sunday.

After 1 game with 20 carries that is proving not to be true for now. Granted it was just 1 game so I'll give it a pass for now.

But if Beanie gets 3 or 4 or 5 more games with 15+ plus carries and still can't seem to break a long run or manage more than 4-5 YPC during that time we really need to quit with the "elite" comments.

I don't care if teams are stacking the box. Elite RB's will break big runs and make something out of nothing at some point regardless of the defense. They either plow over the defenders and make it to the second level IE Adrian Peterson. Or they get the Edge and run by all of them IE Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson. It happens all the time.

At some point the talent will take over and we will see a big run or game breaking play.

Beanie has yet to really show that. So all I'm saying not necessarily to you but to the people in the Beanie is "elite" crowd is that if he is going to get those carries it is time for him to show "it" regardless of 7 or 8 in the box.

I realize he will get less yards most of the time and that it will be harder. But at some point regardless of defensive scheme he should break one or two or three through the course of a season. All of the "elite" ones do.

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

You forgot "The Ugly"...

The Ugly:

1. RugbyMuffin

 

[Mulli]

You forgot "The Ugly"...

The Ugly:

1. RugbyMuffin

 

[40yearfan]

- We have a " Girl With the Curl" defense (when they're good, they're very good but...yada yada).

.

When she was good, she was very good, but when she was bad she was terrific.

 

[40yearfan]

Listen I agree with you that the O-line is a problem. I believe it hinders GOOD RB's like Beanie AND Timmy.

The problem I have and the reason I debate it is this:

There are a large # of posters on this board who refer to Beanie as "elite" already. Or they say that if he gets 20 or more carries a game he will be "elite" etc... etc.... They say that not one guy can bring him down or that he makes people miss or is guaranteed to get you 3 yards or pick up a 1st down on third and short. Well I saw a lot of getting stuffed right at the point of contact and quite a bit of one man tackles on Beanie in that game on Sunday.

After 1 game with 20 carries that is proving not to be true for now. Granted it was just 1 game so I'll give it a pass for now.

But if Beanie gets 3 or 4 or 5 more games with 15+ plus carries and still can't seem to break a long run or manage more than 4-5 YPC during that time we really need to quit with the "elite" comments.

I don't care if teams are stacking the box. Elite RB's will break big runs and make something out of nothing at some point regardless of the defense. They either plow over the defenders and make it to the second level IE Adrian Peterson. Or they get the Edge and run by all of them IE Adrian Peterson and Chris Johnson. It happens all the time.

At some point the talent will take over and we will see a big run or game breaking play.

Beanie has yet to really show that. So all I'm saying not necessarily to you but to the people in the Beanie is "elite" crowd is that if he is going to get those carries it is time for him to show "it" regardless of 7 or 8 in the box.

I realize he will get less yards most of the time and that it will be harder. But at some point regardless of defensive scheme he should break one or two or three through the course of a season. All of the "elite" ones do.

Agree completely Shane and remember that Hightower has already broke big runs more than once this year. He can also block and catch passes better. That's why he is still starter.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

You forgot "The Ugly"...

The Ugly:

1. RugbyMuffin

You must be registered for see images

Mu beauty is on the inside.........waaaaaay inside.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

 

[Duckjake]

I realize he will get less yards most of the time and that it will be harder. But at some point regardless of defensive scheme he should break one or two or three through the course of a season. All of the "elite" ones do.

Wells did that last season. Hightower was better last season also than he has been the last two weeks. Its' the offensive line.

Can't contain an elite back like AP? The Cards held him to 19 yards on 13 carries last year. 1.4 ypc