The last season tank thread.

[Yuma]

I have two thoughts about last season's tank to get Ayton.

1. Just how bad were we without the tank?

2. How much of the tank affected the development of the players? (If at all?)

so point 1. I don't know if you guys saw the games the way I did. Whenever a guy got hot, let's say Bender, Daniels, etc. It almost always meant that guy was going to have a seat on the bench soon. Especially in the second half of the season. "Injuries" like Booker's, etc., suddenly meant we had to shut guys down and be overly cautious. Chandler went on a seemingly every third game rotation. The team had no problem shutting guys down. The only exception to this rule is they let JJ push it to see what he could do, but they never let him get crazy and go for 30 or 40. Did that strategy mess with our young guys, or do they understand that really wasn't a real season?

Point 2, if the tank manufactured losses, can we expect to not be as bad as we looked? Let's say for the sake of argument the tank was on like Donkey Kong, were we as bad talent wise, or team wise as it appeared? Maybe our talent was held back? Maybe we looked way worse than we really are? Which would mean maybe we win a few more than we think when the team really goes all out this season? I mean no doubt in my mind we win a couple games down the stretch last year if Booker plays just based on him carrying us on a couple hot shooting nights.

Does the tank last year skew what the real reality of this team is? Or are we who they said we are?

 

[Errntknght]

I assume the players are not trying to lose when they are on the floor, and watching them that seemed to be true as well. Not that I watched a lot of games. The coach was trying to develope the players so he wasn't overworking anybody trying to win. I thought Peters should have got more PT than he did - IMO he's better than Bender or Chriss and I wanted him to stay around. From what he actually showed in his very limited minutes, I could kind of understand why he was let go. Hopefully, he'll play someplace and get further chances.
Anyway, I think we were basically as bad as we looked -- except sitting Book extra games probably cost some wins.

I'll be surprised if Bender or Chriss suddenly transform into worthwhile players. Reed has already given strong signs of being the player we saw in his first SL - improved, if anything.
I guess his injuries were holding back during his bit at season's end and maybe rust as well.
JJ tried to do too much in SL so to me that's a forgiveable disaster. I think he'll get in a rhythm when the season gets going and be a positive contributor and he may really blossom.

Booker and Jackson are the only two players who played major minutes last year and who will do the same this year, so it's almost like a new team. Devin has been saying the right things so I don't think he'll have any carryover from the tank and Jackson was a rookie playing his heart out so he won't either. BK was on the team but out the whole year - if he'd been healthy we'd have tanked even more effectively. Considering what we pay him I suppose it's smart to give him another shot but I expect him to play his way off the floor fairly soon. I don't care what he says or did in the gym he's just a bad player.

 

[1tinsoldier]

you could make the case that we didn't play up to our potential on offense for a few reasons
but we surely earned our last place defensive ranking last year.
in fact, some of our most embarrassing losses happened right out of the gate.

once the tank had begun, however, it's understandable that it would diminish the hustle-factor on defense.
so there is hope in regards to what a new coach and a motivation to win, instead of lose, can do for this season.

 

[Mainstreet]

I didn't see much of a game plan last season. Maybe it was because the Suns did not have a point guard to run the offense. Also there were irregular rotations and players sitting. There did not seem to be a persistent scheme from game to game. It was more like a game at the playground where players meet and do a pick up game.

I'm thinking a new coach with a strategy alone should help the Suns win more games.

 

[Yuma]

I didn't see much of a game plan last season. Maybe it was because the Suns did not have a point guard to run the offense. Also there were irregular rotations and players sitting. There did not seem to be a persistent scheme from game to game. It was more like a game at the playground where players meet and do a pick up game.

I'm thinking a new coach with a strategy alone should help the Suns win more games.

I remember a lot of one on one with maybe some bigs trying to set screens to help.

 

[Carolinacacti]

I remember a lot

I'm trying not to remember

 

[BC867]

Personally, I find it disappointing to see a Son of Tank thread.

Isn't it waaaaaaay too early to evaluate it?

 

[Hoop Head]

One thing not mentioned often or at all is how the Bledsoe trade effected our season. That helped us bottom out. We wouldn't have gone to the playoffs with him but we probably would have been a 30 win team. I don't think he would have won 9 games on his own but we wouldn't have tanked as hard and had the horrible PG play all season. If the Suns didn't plan on tanking also I'm not sure they make the same trade sending him away. We got out from his contract and a future 1st for him, that's it. Had we been trying to compete for something, no matter how foolish that might have been, I think we would have looked for a return that helped us win now. Who or what that might have been, I'm not sure, but I feel safe guessing we wouldn't have settled for a player we didn't intend on playing a pick that won't convey for another year or two. Probably would have brought a PG back in a deal, even if they were overpaid or not an ideal fit. I could have seen a Bledsoe for Delladova swap making more sense if we didn't intend on losing out.

 

[Ronin]

ESPN expects the stink of losing to linger. The picked us to win 27 games this upcoming season.

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[Mainstreet]

I remember a lot of one on one with maybe some bigs trying to set screens to help.

Now try to substitute positive memories for this.

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[AzStevenCal]

One thing not mentioned often or at all is how the Bledsoe trade effected our season. That helped us bottom out. We wouldn't have gone to the playoffs with him but we probably would have been a 30 win team. I don't think he would have won 9 games on his own but we wouldn't have tanked as hard and had the horrible PG play all season. If the Suns didn't plan on tanking also I'm not sure they make the same trade sending him away. We got out from his contract and a future 1st for him, that's it. Had we been trying to compete for something, no matter how foolish that might have been, I think we would have looked for a return that helped us win now. Who or what that might have been, I'm not sure, but I feel safe guessing we wouldn't have settled for a player we didn't intend on playing a pick that won't convey for another year or two. Probably would have brought a PG back in a deal, even if they were overpaid or not an ideal fit. I could have seen a Bledsoe for Delladova swap making more sense if we didn't intend on losing out.

I see it differently. IMO, we tried and failed to move Eric a couple of times. When he actively sandbagged us at the start of the season it was obviously time to move him no matter the return.

The start of the season is a horrible time to go in search of a trading partner as most rosters are coming together and adding a new player is risky. So we took what we could get. I do agree that we would have been a better team had we kept him but even if Eric was a happy camper, I believe he was destined to be moved by midseason regardless.

 

[elindholm]

Only a six-win improvement? That seems pretty dismal. I'll take the Over.

 

[elindholm]

"It’s no surprise the Golden State Warriors sit alone atop the projections with the Utah Jazz and Houston Rockets following them."

The Jazz? Did I miss something?

 

[Mainstreet]

The Jazz went a long ways with essentially a rookie (Mitchell) and Gobert. This should give the Suns hope for a much improved season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Personally, I find it disappointing to see a Son of Tank thread.

Isn't it waaaaaaay too early to evaluate it?

I'm not sure I'm following you here? He wasn't advocating for a tank season, he was analyzing last year's tank and how it might impact this season. He probably didn't need to include the word "tank" in the thread title but he was looking backward in hopes of finding a reason to look forward, I believe.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I see it differently. IMO, we tried and failed to move Eric a couple of times. When he actively sandbagged us at the start of the season it was obviously time to move him no matter the return.

The start of the season is a horrible time to go in search of a trading partner as most rosters are coming together and adding a new player is risky. So we took what we could get. I do agree that we would have been a better team had we kept him but even if Eric was a happy camper, I believe he was destined to be moved by midseason regardless.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm not sure I'm following you here? He wasn't advocating for a tank season, he was analyzing last year's tank and how it might impact this season. He probably didn't need to include the word "tank" in the thread title but he was looking backward in hopes of finding a reason to look forward, I believe.

Shhh . . . people who like to attack the tank don’t always read the actual posts. If it said “tank” attack away people . . .

 

[BC867]

I'm not sure I'm following you here? He wasn't advocating for a tank season, he was analyzing last year's tank and how it might impact this season. He probably didn't need to include the word "tank" in the thread title but he was looking backward in hopes of finding a reason to look forward, I believe.

Right! And my point was that it is too early to evaluate the outcome of last season's tanking.

We've all speculated. Now it's time to watch and see the results when the season new progresses.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Right! And my point was that it is too early to evaluate the outcome of last season's tanking.

We've all speculated. Now it's time to watch and see the results when the season new progresses.

I probably would have interpreted it as such but was confused when you referred to it as a "son of tank" thread. I agree we won't know the impact for awhile but, regardless, I find the OP's post to be more on point than most of what we discuss during the NBA dead period.

 

[BC867]

I probably would have interpreted it as such but was confused when you referred to it as a "son of tank" thread. I agree we won't know the impact for awhile but, regardless, I find the OP's post to be more on point than most of what we discuss during the NBA dead period.

I didn't state my reaction to a tank thread at this time very well.

The point I was trying to make was what's to post now after everything that's been said?

It's like electing a President in November. Then analyzing their performance in December even though they don't take office until January.

A President chooses the Cabinet in the interim. NBA draft choices, as a result of the tank, can only get in shape ahead of camp and the season.

I was surprised to see a new tank thread in July.

 

[Hoop Head]

I see it differently. IMO, we tried and failed to move Eric a couple of times. When he actively sandbagged us at the start of the season it was obviously time to move him no matter the return.

The start of the season is a horrible time to go in search of a trading partner as most rosters are coming together and adding a new player is risky. So we took what we could get. I do agree that we would have been a better team had we kept him but even if Eric was a happy camper, I believe he was destined to be moved by midseason regardless.

I can see that and agree to a point but I still think if they were looking to win as much as possible this year we would have seen a different trade featuring Bledsoe. Maybe last offseason plays out differently as well. I won't get into that side much because that is much harder to try to imagine what they might have done but with trading Bledsoe, they took the Monroe/Pick deal because they were tanking or ok with tanking. I don't know what the return would have been if they were thinking win now but surely Bledsoe could have returned someone who would have made the rotation. Even if the only thing done is turning that into a 3 team trade that includes another team taking the pick and Monroe while sending us a player in return.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I can see that and agree to a point but I still think if they were looking to win as much as possible this year we would have seen a different trade featuring Bledsoe. Maybe last offseason plays out differently as well. I won't get into that side much because that is much harder to try to imagine what they might have done but with trading Bledsoe, they took the Monroe/Pick deal because they were tanking or ok with tanking. I don't know what the return would have been if they were thinking win now but surely Bledsoe could have returned someone who would have made the rotation. Even if the only thing done is turning that into a 3 team trade that includes another team taking the pick and Monroe while sending us a player in return.

I just don't think there was much interest in Eric. We'd reportedly shopped him a few times with no real interest. And as far as I know, not once did we hear a reporter suggest we were asking for the moon.

He was perhaps still the best player on our roster but he'd stopped playing defense and he'd added very little to his game despite obvious shortcomings. Add to that his upcoming contract and the pain of negotiating with Rich Paul along with Eric's multiple knee surgeries. On top of that he'd just led his squad to a 48 point beatdown, a home loss to an unexciting LA team and then another embarrassing 40 point loss. I really doubt anyone was knocking on our door for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Right! And my point was that it is too early to evaluate the outcome of last season's tanking.

We've all speculated. Now it's time to watch and see the results when the season new progresses.

Ah got it. Yiur post didn’t come off that way.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I didn't state my reaction to a tank thread at this time very well.

The point I was trying to make was what's to post now after everything that's been said?

It's like electing a President in November. Then analyzing their performance in December even though they don't take office until January.

A President chooses the Cabinet in the interim. NBA draft choices, as a result of the tank, can only get in shape ahead of camp and the season.

I was surprised to see a new tank thread in July.

Hmm I’m not sure I agree with you. The tank has one primary goal, be as bad as you can to get the best odds to get the opportunity to pick from the broadest selection of talent. What the gm does with the pick is irrespective of the tank. I suppose you could argue that the taint of the tank makes kids unable to learn to win (as some on the board claimed) but that’s pretty difficult to prove in any reasonable manner.

So if the object of the tank was to get the highest pick possible it was a resounding success.