The Official Bench Edge, Start Hightower Thread

[Pariah]

Ok so let me get this straight ouchie, TH is a short yardage back I would agree with this, so whats the point of him getting more carries then? Edge picks up 3.5 or more most carries why would we want a short yardage back with less YPC getting more carries?

Try and keep up. He's saying that his YPC is artificially low because he's running in short-yardage situations. Either there isn't a whole lot of field in front of him or the defenses are stacked against the run.

Whether it's true or not is a different story, but that's what he's saying.

 

[nashman]

Cheese don't be a smartass I am not calling him a HOF RB for his speed wise guy. He has the EXPERIENCE in games to know what the hell is going on, when to make a block, how to stay healthy, rarely if ever loses yardage, smart... you know the things that a rookie doesn't have. And once again if this so called speedy TH is so good whats with the pathetic YPC this season? Again why are people calling for a short yardage back to be the starter, let him do what he does pick up a few first downs on short yardage situations. Unless we plan on being a running team Edge needs to remain the starter and protecting Warner, sorry I trust Edge blocking way more than TH.

 

[nashman]

Why does HOF RB make you laugh Cheese? Honestly whats so funny about that...he is you know, and the best back the Cards have had since moving to Az.

 

[moklerman]

There have been a handful of runs where you could say that Edge wouldn't have scored that TH has. His touchdown last week is one example.

The TD vs. Carolina was very sweet and I don't think Edge makes it and the 3rd & 17 vs. Dallas was pivotal in that game. It isn't that TH is definitely better, it's that he deserves a chance to carry the load with the plays that he is making.

I might not even go that far if Edge wasn't hurting the team but his dropped passes and fumbles are inexcusable for him as far as I'm concerned and both turnovers he's had recently really seemed to shift the momentum of the games they happened in. If he isn't running particularly well, dropping passes and fumbling I don't know that his blocking ability is enough to warrant giving him more carries than TH at this point in time.

Basically, I think it would be easier or more realistic to teach TH to pick up a blitz than it would be to teach Edge to be more productive.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Cheese don't be a smartass I am not calling him a HOF RB for his speed wise guy. He has the EXPERIENCE in games to know what the hell is going on, when to make a block, how to stay healthy, rarely if ever loses yardage, smart... you know the things that a rookie doesn't have. And once again if this so called speedy TH is so good whats with the pathetic YPC this season? Again why are people calling for a short yardage back to be the starter, let him do what he does pick up a few first downs on short yardage situations. Unless we plan on being a running team Edge needs to remain the starter and protecting Warner, sorry I trust Edge blocking way more than TH.

Do you really need explanations to his YPC.... AGAIN?

He has been designated as a short yardage back because he is better at it than Edge. He is running the ball when there is 7, 8, and even 9 in the box.

It's pretty simple.


Also, if Edge is so good at rarely ever losing yardage, smart, etc. Why isn't he in at the goalline? Why does he only have 1 TD to TH's 6?

 

[nashman]

Oh I see so you guys want to experiement with our offense during the most critical 3 games of the season... even though the offense isn't having trouble scoring.

 

[nashman]

DCR really do you need me to answer that? Edge isn't in at the goalline because Whiz has given the short yardage carries to TH that doesn't mean Edge couldn't punch them in from the same spot.

 

[nashman]

Whatever I am done, I just don't get how you guys are willing to put our season at risk to start a rookie RB. Make no mistake if they start him and he misses a block and Warner goes down thats it season may well be over. I don't believe Leinart could run the offense that we have been seeing. Its funny most here think the season rides on the shoulders of Warner, who already takes quite a few hits, but willing to risk him to get a rookie RB more carries.

 

[joeshmo]

And once again if this so called speedy TH is so good whats with the pathetic YPC this season?

18 out of his 49 attempts have been for 2 yards or less to go. Him being asked to get the 1 yard for a TD or 1st down highly skews his current YPC.

Again why are people calling for a short yardage back to be the starter, let him do what he does pick up a few first downs on short yardage situations.

Lets not pigeon hole him into just being a short yardage back and that alone. Just becuase that is his primary responsability right now doesnt make him one dimensional. Its just that he hasnt been given the opportunity to do anything else yet.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese don't be a smartass I am not calling him a HOF RB for his speed wise guy. He has the EXPERIENCE in games to know what the hell is going on, when to make a block, how to stay healthy, rarely if ever loses yardage, smart... you know the things that a rookie doesn't have. And once again if this so called speedy TH is so good whats with the pathetic YPC this season? Again why are people calling for a short yardage back to be the starter, let him do what he does pick up a few first downs on short yardage situations. Unless we plan on being a running team Edge needs to remain the starter and protecting Warner, sorry I trust Edge blocking way more than TH.

i'm not being a wise-guy. it's not just a matter of speed. Edge has ZERO burst whatsoever at this point. He still had some of that his last year with the Colts and even his first year here. Last year he was slow as sin and this year he might as well be a corpse who's momentarily electrified which lunges his body forward before falling down.

as far as the smarts, not losing yardage, pass blocking... well, Edge has already put the ball on the ground twice this year (v. 0 for Hightower), has zero burst and is starting to say a whole lot of crap in the media.

I just think the less of him on the field we see, the better chance this offense has of actually having some balance, which could make us devastating.

 

[Cheesebeef]

DCR really do you need me to answer that? Edge isn't in at the goalline because Whiz has given the short yardage carries to TH that doesn't mean Edge couldn't punch them in from the same spot.

why would he need to take Edge out if Edge could punch it in there?

 

[joeshmo]

DCR really do you need me to answer that? Edge isn't in at the goalline because Whiz has given the short yardage carries to TH that doesn't mean Edge couldn't punch them in from the same spot.

Edge himself has taken himself out of goalline stances and asked coaches to put in Shipp and Hightower. Edge apparently has more confidence in those two punching it them himself.

 

[nashman]

TH is Whizs' guy period he drafted him and clearly is going to play him. I don't really care but a 5th rounder who has proven nothing shouldn't be getting the nod over a proven NFL RB even if Edge is talking to the media. Edge is a professional and a gamer of course he wants the ball, he also wants someone to block for him so he's not getting blasted in the backfield like the fumble the other day. They should just split the carries but Edge needs to be in there on the passing downs, thats the way I feel.

 

[nashman]

Maybe Edge doesn't care about the TD's you guys are talking about maybe he is trying to build the other guys up letting them get the easy 1 and 2 yrds TD's. You honestly think that Edge would pull himself out saying I don't think I can make it, no he has asked them to give Shipp for sure and probally TH some of those short TD carries. Thats why the players love the guy he is a standup teammate and a professional not all about himself like some think.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Whatever I am done, I just don't get how you guys are willing to put our season at risk to start a rookie RB. Make no mistake if they start him and he misses a block and Warner goes down thats it season may well be over. I don't believe Leinart could run the offense that we have been seeing. Its funny most here think the season rides on the shoulders of Warner, who already takes quite a few hits, but willing to risk him to get a rookie RB more carries.

Warner, like any QB is a hit away from being knocked out of the game, that can come from anyone's missed block, you want to keep Edge solely for this reason?

Did Bush, Tomlinson or Adrian Peterson sit on the bench the first year waiting to learn blitz pickups?
I'm not saying we have the next superstar in Hightower, but we know Edge ain't getting it done.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think it's a catch 22 and I've been saying this for awhile. the problem with Warner is that he's so good right now you almost feel stupid ever running the ball. 9 out of 10 audibles will be to a passing play, because he's so confident right now. Given that you know teams are trying to hit Kurt and that means you want your best blitz pickup RB in the game which is still Edge.

The catch of course is that IMHO if Hightower were getting more carries, we'd be able to run the ball better, and Kurt wouldn't HAVE to throw as much. The problem is unless Whiz takes the audible away from Kurt, he's going to audible to a pass more often than not whoever is in at RB. You have to protect Kurt so you have to play Edge.

I think we'd be more balanced with TH in there but I'm also afraid he'd miss 1-2 blocks a game that Edge would make that might result in Warner getting hit and either fumbling, or worse getting injured.

That TD run Sunday was ridiculous that's a 6 yard loss for most RB's not a TD, even Edge might make the first hit miss, but he's not going to bust into the endzone like that.

We have a dilemma, we need to run the ball better but in doing so we might expose our QB to hits.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

That TD run Sunday was ridiculous that's a 6 yard loss for most RB's not a TD, even Edge might make the first hit miss, but he's not going to bust into the endzone like that.

That play is exactly why I want to see more of Hightower, Our run blocking sucks, and at this point, TH has a hell of a lot better chance of making something out of nothing.

 

[moklerman]

We have a dilemma, we need to run the ball better but in doing so we might expose our QB to hits.

this is assuming that Edge is night and day better than Hightower. I will grant that a veteran is going to obviously be more experienced in picking up blitzes but I don't think Hightower has shown himself to be an utter liability in blocking has he?

This is also assuming that Edge is to be completely phased out of the offense. I still think he should embrace the reduced workload and have that little bit extra when he does get in the game. A committee approach should continue to benefit the offense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok so let me get this straight ouchie, TH is a short yardage back I would agree with this, so whats the point of him getting more carries then? Edge picks up 3.5 or more most carries why would we want a short yardage back with less YPC getting more carries? Whatever some people are just down on Edge and calling for a rookie to be the starter over a HOF RB is just dumb, add to that one badly missed block by that rookie and our season could be shot to hell. NO THANKS.

do you not understand that edge typically has an easier defensive formation against which to run on first and second downs b/c the defense has to be ready for both the run and pass, whereas hightower usually only comes in on short yardage situations when the defense stacks the line? you think that has NO bearing on his ypc? that's ridiculous.

 

[Russ Smith]

That play is exactly why I want to see more of Hightower, Our run blocking sucks, and at this point, TH has a hell of a lot better chance of making something out of nothing.

Yep that was very similar to a run Marshawn Lynch had last year that I couldn't believe at the time.

Backs like TH are fun to watch, guys go for the knockout hit but if they don't wrap up, the RB just bounces outside.

It's just a gamble that if you give TH 15 touches in a game, how many times is he going to repeat the mistake in the Dallas game where he forgot to chip the DL on the bootleg play and got Kurt sacked?

If it were me I'd play Tim more but that's an easy call to make sitting in a chair at work.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Try and keep up. He's saying that his YPC is artificially low because he's running in short-yardage situations. Either there isn't a whole lot of field in front of him or the defenses are stacked against the run.

Whether it's true or not is a different story, but that's what he's saying.

that is what i'm saying. and i think it's at least fairly accurate.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I think it's a catch 22 and I've been saying this for awhile. the problem with Warner is that he's so good right now you almost feel stupid ever running the ball. 9 out of 10 audibles will be to a passing play, because he's so confident right now. Given that you know teams are trying to hit Kurt and that means you want your best blitz pickup RB in the game which is still Edge.

The catch of course is that IMHO if Hightower were getting more carries, we'd be able to run the ball better, and Kurt wouldn't HAVE to throw as much. The problem is unless Whiz takes the audible away from Kurt, he's going to audible to a pass more often than not whoever is in at RB. You have to protect Kurt so you have to play Edge.

I think we'd be more balanced with TH in there but I'm also afraid he'd miss 1-2 blocks a game that Edge would make that might result in Warner getting hit and either fumbling, or worse getting injured.

That TD run Sunday was ridiculous that's a 6 yard loss for most RB's not a TD, even Edge might make the first hit miss, but he's not going to bust into the endzone like that.

We have a dilemma, we need to run the ball better but in doing so we might expose our QB to hits.

i'd agree with your assessment.

 

[nashman]

^WTF thats what I have been saying! You guys just don't listen TH has his positives imo they are not enough to warrant him starting or taking the bulk of carries right now. For whomever it was that said AP, LT in the same sentence as TH well thats just absurd, TH was a 5th round pick a NOBODY not a top pick and expected to shine in the NFL. A 5th round pick sitting behind a HOF starter is not unusaul what would be is to sit the starter to make that 5th round pick the starter.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

^ For whomever it was that said AP, LT in the same sentence as TH well thats just absurd, TH was a 5th round pick a NOBODY not a top pick and expected to shine in the NFL. A 5th round pick sitting behind a HOF starter is not unusaul what would be is to sit the starter to make that 5th round pick the starter.

Did you read the whole post?

Your argument makes little sense anyway.
Because we all know that round 1 always means "NFL ready" right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

^WTF thats what I have been saying! You guys just don't listen TH has his positives imo they are not enough to warrant him starting or taking the bulk of carries right now. For whomever it was that said AP, LT in the same sentence as TH well thats just absurd, TH was a 5th round pick a NOBODY not a top pick and expected to shine in the NFL. A 5th round pick sitting behind a HOF starter is not unusaul what would be is to sit the starter to make that 5th round pick the starter.

maybe no one's listening to you because you keep calling them "dumb" "stupid", "absurd" etc. etc. not to mention continually saying Edge is a HOF back.