The Official Bench Edge, Start Hightower Thread

[Pariah]

that is what i'm saying. and i think it's at least fairly accurate.

I think it makes a lot of sense from a commen-sense point of view, but a couple of weeks ago someone posted evidence to refute it. TH's YPC wasn't signifcantly different in "average" down and distance than it was in goal-line and short yardage situations.

That may have since changed.

I still think that with 15-20 carries a game multiple situiations will arise in which TH is more able to take advantage of his relatively greater burst than Edge. The flipside is that I think Edge really is the master of getting 3 yards out of nothing (and 3 yards out of something, which is why we're having this converation).

 

[Cheesebeef]

do you know how sad it is that Edge, as the feature back and the guy who gets the most snaps only has 2 plays of over 15 yards while Hightower has 4 in limited time. We're really stuck in between a rock and hard place here if we want to have any balance on offense. Edge really can't do anything except be good in pass protection but him being in the game gives us no chance at a running game, which we'll need if we make the playoffs and have to ever leave the nest to go play back east in cold weather outside, but on the flipside, there's the risk that Hightower won't be able to be as good in pass protection and will get Warner killed. Personally, I think Warner's been getting killed a lot this season anyway and has been pretty damn durable...

oh my lord, Joe the Plumber is holding press conferences now to announce who he's voting for. that stupidity has robbed me of my ability to type on this subject for a little while.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

do you know how sad it is that Edge, as the feature back and the guy who gets the most snaps only has 2 plays of over 15 yards while Hightower has 4 in limited time. We're really stuck in between a rock and hard place here if we want to have any balance on offense. Edge really can't do anything except be good in pass protection but him being in the game gives us no chance at a running game, which we'll need if we make the playoffs and have to ever leave the nest to go play back east in cold weather outside, but on the flipside, there's the risk that Hightower won't be able to be as good in pass protection and will get Warner killed. Personally, I think Warner's been getting killed a lot this season anyway and has been pretty damn durable...

oh my lord, Joe the Plumber is holding press conferences now to announce who he's voting for. that stupidity has robbed me of my ability to type on this subject for a little while.

Joe the Plumber wants Hightower to start I hear.

 

[ajcardfan]

This now sounds like so many of the runningback arguments of the past. Cards fans have a love/hate relationship with their RBs. It's even irrational love and hate, with future events usually proving the popular opinion completely wrong.

I don't give 2-rips who's playing as long as we're in first and headed towards the playoffs.

 

[Russ Smith]

^WTF thats what I have been saying! You guys just don't listen TH has his positives imo they are not enough to warrant him starting or taking the bulk of carries right now. For whomever it was that said AP, LT in the same sentence as TH well thats just absurd, TH was a 5th round pick a NOBODY not a top pick and expected to shine in the NFL. A 5th round pick sitting behind a HOF starter is not unusaul what would be is to sit the starter to make that 5th round pick the starter.

Terrell Davis was a 6th rounder and started as a rookie. I'm not saying TH is the next Davis but the round you're picked in doesn't matter if you can play.

Hightower is a better runner than Edge right now, I do agree with your point about blitz pickups though, it's a problem because we throw the ball so much, and our QB is so prone to fumbles and injuries, that we have to be darn sure TH is ready to handle that aspect of the game.

 

[nashman]

We are in 1st with 3 HUGE games coming its not the time to experiment with a rookie RB, their will be time for that later.

 

[ArizonaElvis]

Hightower 6-3, logest run 2 yards.

He is not exactly leaving the smoke behind... he has been really good in short yardage and goal line situations.

we are a passing team and our running game has been bad no matter who runs.

We can try putting Hightower in since its not working anyway but I just don't see much improvement.

Well Hightower ran one in from 17 yards out a couple games ago and I haven't seen a Cardinal back do that for a long time. He also got a TD out of a blotched run attempt against Carolina. I like Edge but he would have ran right into that pack and never got the TD, Hightower backtracked and took it around the corner for the TD. Let's face it, it isn't Edge's fault how bad our running game is but Hightower is our future. Our offense is working just fine right now the way it is, we just need to work on the running game a bit and stop going into the prevent defense everytime we get a lead! GO BIG RED!!!

 

[Shogun]

We are in 1st with 3 HUGE games coming its not the time to experiment with a rookie RB, their will be time for that later.

Pretty much.

 

[Pariah]

stop going into the prevent defense everytime we get a lead!

The Cardinals did not go into a prevent against Carolina.

 

[SuperSpck]

The Cardinals did not go into a prevent against Carolina.

They went into the Fail defense instead.

 

[Russ Smith]

Regarding Hightower's YPC and why it is what it is. NFL.com has the breakdown.

redzone 18 carries 40 yards 2.2 YPC, 6 TD, 9 first downs
Opponent 49-20 yard line 14 carries 37 yards 2.6 YPC 0 TD 2 first downs
Own 1-20 5 carries 24 yards 4.8 YPC 0 TD 3 first downs
Own 21-50 12 carries 32 yards 2.7 YPC 0 td 3 first downs.

So it's clear the bulk of his carries are in the redzone as we all thought. they don't have splits of down and distance on NFL.com so I don't know what that is.

I don't think anybody is saying TH would be getting 5 YPC if he was ,
just that his numbers are being depressed because of the ratio of short yardage carries.

Edge has a higher YPC but I suspect part of that is that Tim can't get into a flow because he's in and out, and he doesn't get the luxury of getting carries where the defense is playing pass, let's face it we're not a balanced team right now so on many downs teams assume we're going to pass, Edge is ususally the RB on those downs and that allows him to run against a team playing pass defense.

The more I think about it the more I think it's inevitable Tim is going to eventually start, he's simply more explosive.

 

[Totally_Red]

Well Hightower ran one in from 17 yards out a couple games ago and I haven't seen a Cardinal back do that for a long time. He also got a TD out of a blotched run attempt against Carolina. I like Edge but he would have ran right into that pack and never got the TD, Hightower backtracked and took it around the corner for the TD. Let's face it, it isn't Edge's fault how bad our running game is but Hightower is our future. Our offense is working just fine right now the way it is, we just need to work on the running game a bit and stop going into the prevent defense everytime we get a lead! GO BIG RED!!!

And he got THE critical third down pickup by taking a screen pass for 17 yards against Dallas. Aikman cited that as the key play in the game.

I don't think it's either or. I don't want to "bench" Edge, but I do want Tim to get 40-50% of touches, Edge 20-30% and J.J. gets 10-20%.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Looking good so far.

 

[Shzm13]

Agreed, Fantastic call shzm13!

 

[nashman]

The TD run was nice but lets not get ahead of ourselves as our O is totally struggling right now to score against a pathetic Rams team. Our D had to get the scoring going thats not good for an offensive team.

 

[Shzm13]

Lol nashman, thats why nobody takes you serious.


Edge prob wouldn't have gotten anywhere near this production. I still want to see us pound it with Hightower a little more to put the game away.

 

[1DS]

Lol nashman, thats why nobody takes you serious.


Edge prob wouldn't have gotten anywhere near this production. I still want to see us pound it with Hightower a little more to put the game away.

Agreed. Hightower is looking impressive and getting more our of the runs than Edge would. Nashman = ultimate cynic.

 

[D-Dogg]

Great move. TH is the real deal.

 

[Shane]

The TD run was nice but lets not get ahead of ourselves as our O is totally struggling right now to score against a pathetic Rams team. Our D had to get the scoring going thats not good for an offensive team.

You'll do anything to not give the kid his creds wont you?

 

[az1965]

TH is the steal of the draft... him and Breaston!

 

[Arizona's Finest]

The TD run was nice but lets not get ahead of ourselves as our O is totally struggling right now to score against a pathetic Rams team. Our D had to get the scoring going thats not good for an offensive team.

HATER

 

[Cheesebeef]

is Hightower the next Boldin, as in the guy that everyone on this board fell in love with irrationally during the pre-season and then somehow actually lives up to the hype we've created for him? pretty damn good start getting 100 and a TD in his first start, not to mention scoring 7 TDs overall so far this season.

 

[Shane]

is Hightower the next Boldin, as in the guy that everyone on this board fell in love with irrationally during the pre-season and then somehow actually lives up to the hype we've created for him? pretty damn good start getting 100 and a TD in his first start, not to mention scoring 7 TDs overall so far this season.

He definitely seems to be the next Boldin in that sense. No doubt.

 

[Assface]

Top 10 in the NFL in TDs, 1st among rookies.

 

[Pariah]

I think we can safely put the Edge or Hightower debate behind us. Edge made those yards on runs that Edge would have gotten a nominal gain on.

I do, however, think that Edge should be in on the goalline. I thin he'd have scored where TH didn't on that first drive.

Also, I think Haley/Warner got confused by the success of the running game in the first quarter. They struggled to find an offensive identity in the first 15 minutes.