The Official "Fire Coach Ken Whisenhunt" Thread

[Mulli]

It is officially time to start over. From Graves to the flag boys. Ray Horton is not the answer, either. (I am calling this now so I can be the guy who didn't like the coach from the beginning.)

 

[NJCardFan]

It is officially time to start over. From Graves to the flag boys. Ray Horton is not the answer, either. (I am calling this now so I can be the guy who didn't like the coach from the beginning.)

I have to agree. This team needs a complete overhaul.

 

[john h]

The Official "Fire Coach Ken Whisenhunt" Thread

Seriously. He has to go.

I wish it was as simple as firing Whiz. Unfortunately he or whoever replaces him has a large lack of quality players to work with. There is no simple solution and it will take a group of smart people at the top from owner, GM, Coach, and coordinators to set this ship right. It want happen in one year. Is it not strange that the smallest city in the NFL has one of the best teams in the NFL and are usually consistent at being near the top.

Money should not be a problem with the Cards as they have sold out every game since moving into the new stadium. We do have a problem in not having a lot of CAP space to acquire new players. We have consistently had a problem in acquiring quality players and keeping those that we do acquire. I do not even know who to put this on as we have so little information about who is responsible for what with the Cards.

Talk now circulating that Jerry Jones wants the New Orleans Saints Coach who is on suspension. Problem with that he want come unless Jerry is willing to give up his authority as GM.

There are three projected NFL type QBs coming out in the draft this year. We should end up with a shot at one of them. Do we need to add a big RB to our roster? Is Beenie going to ever get well and stay well? Should we start giving our #3 QB a few quarters after we fall behind by a few TDs? If not then why even have him on the roster?

 

[john h]

I honestly think if this season ends 6-10 or worse he will be gone...and 6-10 or worse really looks likely at this point.

If we win two more games it will be the defense that does it. We have no running game, no passing game, lead the NFL in sacks given up. I think we had a total of 9 yrds gained on the ground in one game recently? I put the odds at 50/50 we win no more games. It has to be real hard for players to get up for a game knowing we are going no where.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

If we win two more games it will be the defense that does it. We have no running game, no passing game, lead the NFL in sacks given up. I think we had a total of 9 yrds gained on the ground in one game recently? I put the odds at 50/50 we win no more games. It has to be real hard for players to get up for a game knowing we are going no where.

I believe it was 7 yards on 9 carries.

 

[kerouac9]

People also act like whiz made Warner out of thin air, you do realize he was a proven Super Bowl winning MVP right? No doubt he struggled under Denny but he also didn't get much if a shot.

Endzone mentioned it before, but Warner was very statistically productive here under Denny Green. Both seasons over 64% completions, over 7.2 YPA, QB ratings over 85. The problem was that it became apparent that Warner wasn't doing enough to get the team into the "W" column (3-12 as a starter), and it was time to go with a younger player that the front office and coaching staff believed had a bright future. Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two steps forward. Didn't work out.

I'm actually fine with keeping Whis, even in the very unlikely event that we don't win another game this year. These losses are awful to experience, but the team is not giving up, and that is to me a pretty hearty endorsement of the head coach. I'd say that he needs less personnel control, but I shudder to think of either Graves or Keim in greater control over personnel. I'm assuming that Grimm and Miller are gone at the end of the year.

 

[AK CARDINAL GUY]

Fire Him Now !!!!!

1. He can not develop a QB
2. He has not won with his own players
3. Andy Reid might need a new job

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

1. He can not develop a QB
2. He has not won with his own players
3. Andy Reid might need a new job

Yay! Thats exactly what we need, a washed up has-been!

 

[CtCardinals78]

Whisenhunt will be back next year, but on a very tight leash. It will probably be his last barring some sort of miraculous playoff run. I can very easily see Grimm, Miller and Graves getting canned after this season, especially if MB is as interested in winning as he says he is.

 

[PDXChris]

Whisenhunt will be back next year, but on a very tight leash. It will probably be his last barring some sort of miraculous playoff run. I can very easily see Grimm, Miller and Graves getting canned after this season, especially if MB is as interested in winning as he says he is.

Graves won't, but I can see him being promoted or just given a different title.

 

[kerouac9]

Whisenhunt will be back next year, but on a very tight leash. It will probably be his last barring some sort of miraculous playoff run. I can very easily see Grimm, Miller and Graves getting canned after this season, especially if MB is as interested in winning as he says he is.

I get that people want to hate on/blame Graves for the current situation. I've in the past been one of the most vocal Graves critics on the board, but why would we fire Rod Graves right now? If we believe that:

1) Rod Graves doesn't exercise much control on personnel issues, ceding much of this authority to the coaching staff and scouting department
2) Most of the work that Graves does is on contracts

Then Rod Graves is doing a great job. He got extensions for Campbell and Daryl Washington this season, as well as worked out new deals for Fitz, Dockett, and Adrian Wilson in the past. He gambled on Levi Brown coming back at a lower cap number and won. Those are a handful of A+ moves in the last two years or so.

I understand the idea that we should bring in a new GM who will have a heavier hand in personnel decisions, but whom would that be? Graves is no longer one of the five-worst GMs in the NFL, and I don't think that Steve Keim should take that job considering his recent draft history.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I get that people want to hate on/blame Graves for the current situation. I've in the past been one of the most vocal Graves critics on the board, but why would we fire Rod Graves right now? If we believe that:

1) Rod Graves doesn't exercise much control on personnel issues, ceding much of this authority to the coaching staff and scouting department
2) Most of the work that Graves does is on contracts

Then Rod Graves is doing a great job. He got extensions for Campbell and Daryl Washington this season, as well as worked out new deals for Fitz, Dockett, and Adrian Wilson in the past. He gambled on Levi Brown coming back at a lower cap number and won. Those are a handful of A+ moves in the last two years or so.

I understand the idea that we should bring in a new GM who will have a heavier hand in personnel decisions, but whom would that be? Graves is no longer one of the five-worst GMs in the NFL, and I don't think that Steve Keim should take that job considering his recent draft history.

Good stuff!!!

 

[cardpa]

I get that people want to hate on/blame Graves for the current situation. I've in the past been one of the most vocal Graves critics on the board, but why would we fire Rod Graves right now? If we believe that:

1) Rod Graves doesn't exercise much control on personnel issues, ceding much of this authority to the coaching staff and scouting department
2) Most of the work that Graves does is on contracts

Then Rod Graves is doing a great job. He got extensions for Campbell and Daryl Washington this season, as well as worked out new deals for Fitz, Dockett, and Adrian Wilson in the past. He gambled on Levi Brown coming back at a lower cap number and won. Those are a handful of A+ moves in the last two years or so.

I understand the idea that we should bring in a new GM who will have a heavier hand in personnel decisions, but whom would that be? Graves is no longer one of the five-worst GMs in the NFL, and I don't think that Steve Keim should take that job considering his recent draft history.

Hard to argue with this logic. So do you give Graves the title of contract negotiator (aka William Shatner) and bring in a real GM who actually can evaluate talent and take some of that away from Whiz who seems to have a solid hold on player selection with some of it being handled by Keim (draft, college talent) and just get rid of Keim.

When you look at the makeup of the FO it really does seem to be a mess with no clear lines and responsibilities or overlapping responsibilities that don't mess well. It almost seems like there is no structure to how it works.

 

[kerouac9]

Hard to argue with this logic. So do you give Graves the title of contract negotiator (aka William Shatner) and bring in a real GM who actually can evaluate talent and take some of that away from Whiz who seems to have a solid hold on player selection with some of it being handled by Keim (draft, college talent) and just get rid of Keim.

When you look at the makeup of the FO it really does seem to be a mess with no clear lines and responsibilities or overlapping responsibilities that don't mess well. It almost seems like there is no structure to how it works.

You're not going to demote him for doing a good job. That doesn't make sense. If he's doing a good job fulfilling his responsibilities, then keep him in his current capacity.

As Joe pointed out last month, the personnel side of the front office went through a major shakeup this offseason following the draft. I think it's too early to say, "Well, this isn't working," and blow the whole thing up again.

Mulli started a thread about this last week, but Keim hasn't done that great a job on his end of things the last few years. None of the OL prospects that he's assumeably endorsed (I'm of the view that picks after the 3rd round are largely driven by the scouting staff, since coaches don't have the time to evaluate all these different guys as deeply) have worked out--Keith, Lutui, the succession of late-rounders.

While the structure of the front office is mystifying to us on the outside, I have a pretty good idea that the decision-making process is clear to those working on Hardy Drive. It's immensely frustrating to us that the Cards don't publish their organizational chart. I'd prefer to have one guy whose thumbprint is on the entire roster; it'd be easier to assign blame from my laptop.

But when you look at the situations in Indy, Kansas City, Philly, Jacksonville, Carolina, and elsewhere where there's one "strong" general manager pulling all the strings, it's hard to say that this is what's working.

 

[Duckjake]

You're not going to demote him for doing a good job. That doesn't make sense. If he's doing a good job fulfilling his responsibilities, then keep him in his current capacity.

As Joe pointed out last month, the personnel side of the front office went through a major shakeup this offseason following the draft. I think it's too early to say, "Well, this isn't working," and blow the whole thing up again.

Mulli started a thread about this last week, but Keim hasn't done that great a job on his end of things the last few years. None of the OL prospects that he's assumeably endorsed (I'm of the view that picks after the 3rd round are largely driven by the scouting staff, since coaches don't have the time to evaluate all these different guys as deeply) have worked out--Keith, Lutui, the succession of late-rounders.

While the structure of the front office is mystifying to us on the outside, I have a pretty good idea that the decision-making process is clear to those working on Hardy Drive. It's immensely frustrating to us that the Cards don't publish their organizational chart. I'd prefer to have one guy whose thumbprint is on the entire roster; it'd be easier to assign blame from my laptop.

But when you look at the situations in Indy, Kansas City, Philly, Jacksonville, Carolina, and elsewhere where there's one "strong" general manager pulling all the strings, it's hard to say that this is what's working.

And then there's Ozzie Newsome.

 

[Mulli]

ATL and GB seem to be doing okay with the strong GM thing.

 

[kerouac9]

And then there's Ozzie Newsome.

I think that Ozzie has a much more collaborative environment going around in Baltimore than a lot of us believe from the outside. I know it was a decade ago, but that's the impression I got from Next Man Up. He took Billick's word on Kyle Boller, for example.

ATL and GB seem to be doing okay with the strong GM thing.

I bet that Mike McCarthy has some input on the way they do business in Green Bay. Not sure about Mike Smith(?), although I think we should wait for the Atlanta Falcons to win a playoff game before we start holding them up as an example for the rest of the league.

 

[Mulli]

I think that Ozzie has a much more collaborative environment going around in Baltimore than a lot of us believe from the outside. I know it was a decade ago, but that's the impression I got from Next Man Up. He took Billick's word on Kyle Boller, for example.



I bet that Mike McCarthy has some input on the way they do business in Green Bay. Not sure about Mike Smith(?), although I think we should wait for the Atlanta Falcons to win a playoff game before we start holding them up as an example for the rest of the league.

We can hold up ATL as an example for the Cards. And most, if not all, head coaches have input. I learned that on "The Trenches."

 

[Duckjake]

I think that Ozzie has a much more collaborative environment going around in Baltimore than a lot of us believe from the outside. I know it was a decade ago, but that's the impression I got from Next Man Up. He took Billick's word on Kyle Boller, for example.



I bet that Mike McCarthy has some input on the way they do business in Green Bay. Not sure about Mike Smith(?), although I think we should wait for the Atlanta Falcons to win a playoff game before we start holding them up as an example for the rest of the league.

It's from Reading Next Man Up that I don't believe that either the coaches or GM have no input on what talent is brought in. So I also can't believe the Cards don't have a collaborative environment although their history would indicate otherwise I just can't see that as the case today. They just have to be using a combined effort of the Ownership, Player personnel people, scouts and all the coaches.

Like when the Ravens special teams coach lobbied for his guy and got him. Goes with the rumors that a scout or assistant coach had to talk the Cards into drafting Anquan Boldin. If that was happening in 2003 surely they are more into collaboration today with the new stadium etc.

As for the Falcons, screw the playoffs, when you win 51 games in 4.5 years you're doing a good job. The Cards haven't won 51 games in a 4.5 year stretch in the history of the franchise!

 

[Buckybird]

As for the Falcons, screw the playoffs, when you win 51 games in 4.5 years you're doing a good job.

Not when you cant win a playoff game! If they went 1 & out again in say they next 2 years, fans would be screaming for a new coach & probably would get one...just like the Andy Reid syndrome in Philly. The dude did everything except for winning a SB & now all of a sudden he's an idiot coach. lol

 

[Duckjake]

Not when you cant win a playoff game! If they went 1 & out again in say they next 2 years, fans would be screaming for a new coach & probably would get one...just like the Andy Reid syndrome in Philly. The dude did everything except for winning a SB & now all of a sudden he's an idiot coach. lol

The Cardinals can't even manage back to back winning seasons more than once every 20 years and other teams are talking about being unhappy because they win 10 or more every year but can't win a playoff game.
'
Somebody hates us.

 

[kerouac9]

We can hold up ATL as an example for the Cards. And most, if not all, head coaches have input. I learned that on "The Trenches."

Atlanta released their 2011 marquee free agent signing Ray Edwards last night. Maybe Atlanta is following the Cards' example. Five year deal worth $27.5 million and $11 million guaranteed.

Still $2.5 million less than the Cards signed Stewart Bradley for.

 

[Buckybird]

Still $2.5 million less than the Cards signed Stewart Bradley for.

I still say Stewdog can play, but Horton loves Lenon for whatever reason. Lenon has been a solid player for us, but I would at least get Bradley in the game to see if he could be better...he did look pretty good in preseason.

 

[Jetstream Green]

The Official "Fire Coach Ken Whisenhunt" Thread

Seriously. He has to go.

I wish it was as simple as firing Whiz. Unfortunately he or whoever replaces him has a large lack of quality players to work with. There is no simple solution and it will take a group of smart people at the top from owner, GM, Coach, and coordinators to set this ship right. It want happen in one year. Is it not strange that the smallest city in the NFL has one of the best teams in the NFL and are usually consistent at being near the top.

Money should not be a problem with the Cards as they have sold out every game since moving into the new stadium. We do have a problem in not having a lot of CAP space to acquire new players. We have consistently had a problem in acquiring quality players and keeping those that we do acquire. I do not even know who to put this on as we have so little information about who is responsible for what with the Cards.

Talk now circulating that Jerry Jones wants the New Orleans Saints Coach who is on suspension. Problem with that he want come unless Jerry is willing to give up his authority as GM.

There are three projected NFL type QBs coming out in the draft this year. We should end up with a shot at one of them. Do we need to add a big RB to our roster? Is Beenie going to ever get well and stay well? Should we start giving our #3 QB a few quarters after we fall behind by a few TDs? If not then why even have him on the roster?

I disagree that a new coach would be lacking talent, OL and QB are the difficult areas which have sunk this team. RB would not be hard to fix, you can get a decent back in the third or fourth round...even a good back at that spot

 

[WildBB]

I disagree that a new coach would be lacking talent, OL and QB are the difficult areas which have sunk this team. RB would not be hard to fix, you can get a decent back in the third or fourth round...even a good back at that spot

Agree, you can catch lightning in a bottle at that point in the draft. I don't think this team is going to give up on R. Williams any time soon though. Kids got a lot of heart, and didn't get any decent help up front early this season.