The Official Leinart is Toast thread.

[MrYeahBut]

If you really believe that, then why not pontificate on that rather than an extreme?

Is it just some evil game being played to suck everyone in to create drama??

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Huh? Mitch also wrote a 180 degrees post from the one above, which was the reason for this thread.




That's hardly one perspective and sticking to it. It is the exact opposite. Would have been interesting if he posted both together, but he posted them a day apart.

One post/thread, one perspective, one topic.

So, yes, the first was against Matt, and the second was for Matt. As you say 180 degrees apart, but both stick to the perspective.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Huh? I thought it was clever.

And something to read besides birthday posts.

 

[JeffGollin]

We can't really judge anything about our offense at all until the Cards do something about their Maginot, I mean Offensive, Line.
Speaking of that - anyone notice Hadnot's downfield blocking on Wright's TD?

 

[D-Dogg]

One post/thread, one perspective, one topic.

So, yes, the first was against Matt, and the second was for Matt. As you say 180 degrees apart, but both stick to the perspective.

And thus appearing bi-polar. Or completely detached/compartmentalized. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[TJ]

I would like to take a moment to thank Mitch for giving Matty the best nickname ever! No joke, buddy.

I'm sick of calling him Matty Lite. Toast is perfect! Means that if he starts dissecting defenses like he is capable of doing, we can say, "they just got Toasted!"

 

[Crazy Canuck]

We can't really judge anything about our offense at all until the Cards do something about their Maginot, I mean Offensive, Line.
Speaking of that - anyone notice Hadnot's downfield blocking on Wright's TD?

Nobody went through the Maginot line. They went around it. There lies the difference.

 

[Linderbee]

How are Mitch's opinions no matter how extreme trolling?

Because the intent is to get everyone riled up. That's textbook trolling.

 

[CardLogic]

And something to read besides birthday posts.

 

[CardLogic]

Exactly. It's borderline trolling with a very fine line.

Because the intent is to get everyone riled up. That's textbook trolling.

So which is it "textbook" or "boderline"???

Some might say those terms are diametrically opposed... You know 180 degrees apart.

 

[Mulli]

So which is it "textbook" or "boderline"???

Some might say those to terms are diametrically opposed... You know 180 degrees apart.

Once again, the definitions of the rules depend on which mod you ask.

 

[PortlandCardFan]

Nobody went through the Maginot line. They went around it. There lies the difference.

We need a TE with the last name Belgium...

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

All I know is I am on the borderline with the Toast name. It isnt a textbook nickname.

 

[Duckjake]

Nobody went through the Maginot line. They went around it. There lies the difference.

Exactly. The main problem was the Texans outside rushers going around our Tackles. Hence the reference to the Maginot line.

 

[Linderbee]

Once again, the definitions of the rules depend on which mod you ask.

True, but we all know I'm always right, and DCR is wrong.

 

[D-Dogg]

Exactly. The main problem was the Texans outside rushers going around our Tackles. Hence the reference to the Maginot line.

Mario Williams went so far through Brandon Keith that he was wearing Keith's jersey when he sacked Toast.

 

[Shane]

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2010/08/18/the-leinart-effect/

 

[Shane]

Because the intent is to get everyone riled up. That's textbook trolling.

How do you know that is his intent? Just because someone may truly believe something and puts it for all to read doesn't make it trolling. JMO.

Sometimes things are going to fire people up that's just a fact. Message board were meant for discussion and debate. Sometimes heated.

 

[Mulli]

How do you know that is his intent? Just because someone may truly believe something and puts it for all to read doesn't make it trolling. JMO.

Sometimes things are going to fire people up that's just a fact. Message board were meant for discussion and debate. Sometimes heated.

How can he truly believe two opposite things?

 

[Mulli]

Huh? Mitch also wrote a 180 degrees post from the one above, which was the reason for this thread.




That's hardly one perspective and sticking to it. It is the exact opposite. Would have been interesting if he posted both together, but he posted them a day apart.

Look below for this post...

 

[Shane]

How can he truly believe two opposite things?

When did he say the exact opposite? Mitch has been a Leinart detractor as long as I can remember. If he said anything remotely posotive about the guy anyone on here would have to take it tongue in cheek IMO.

 

[Mitch]

Leinart is not toast.

Far from it.

In fact, he is The Most PREPARED QB to lead the Cardinals into the Post-Warner era.

Leinart has now played in Whiz's system for three years. His familiarity with the system and with his teammates gives him an enormous advantage.

He's waited patiently.

He knows the system works.

He knows the personnel around him is strong.

This is why he wanted to stay with the Cardinals even when Kurt Warner was signed last year for two more years...and teams around the league were desperate to sign or trade for good young QBs.

Leinart could have demanded a trade.

He did nothing of the sort.

Instead, he prepared diligently with the understanding that if Warner were to get dinged up, he would be ready so that the team would not miss a beat.

In his one chance to start, at Tennessee last year, Leinart was efficient and did more than enough to help the team win. In fact, he rallied the team from behind and had the team ahead with under two minutes to go in the game. But, Vince Young pulled a rabbit out of the hat by directing his Titans on a game-winning 99 yard TD drive which culminated on a last second TD pass under the left goalpost to rookie WR Kenny Britt.

There was no time left on the clock for Leinart to answer.

Thus, this Monday night, Leinart will be back in Tennessee under the bright Monday Night Football lights ready to answer any doubts about his ability to lead the Cardinals to a third-consecutive NFC West Championship.

For those who believe in full circles...it is fitting that Matt Leinart will attempt to resurrect his career starting with a Monday Night Football exhibition, for it was four years ago that Leinart shined on that national stage when he pitched a great game versus the then invincible Chicago Bears and their vaunted defense led by Brian Urlacher.

In that extraordinary game, which led to Denny Green's now infamous "they were who we thought they were and we let them off the hook!" post-game tirade, Leinart actually had a little time on the clock to give the Cardinals a chance to still win that game.

At the time, after the Cardinals had done the unthinkable by squandering a big fourth quarter lead by coughing up a fumble that was returned for a TD and then on the next possession giving up an easy punt return TD to Devin Hester, all the air seemed to be sucked out of the Cardinals' sails.

But, Matt Leinart had an answer. He methodically led the team in a precise two-minute drill. And in extremely impressive fashion was able to get the team close to the Bears' 30 yard line, which enabled a 47 yard field goal attempt by Neil Rackers.

You know, sometimes funny things happen on the way to the forum. One has to wonder what would have ever happened if Neil Rackers had made that field goal and had the then hapless Cardinals gone on to win the game.

Sure, football fans would have been deprived of one of the most amusing post-game rants since Jim Mora's hysterical "PLAYOFFS??? did you say PLAYOFFS???" rant.

But, imagine what might have happened otherwise. Would that stunning win have propelled Matt Leinart into the upper eschelon of good, young and promising starting QBs? Would that win have prolonged Denny Green's tenure in the desert? Would that win have relegated Kurt Warner to the sidelines for good?

The Cardinals fell in like a house of cards after that. The offensive coordinator was fired following the game, even though it was Denny Green's insistence to pound Edgerrin James into the Bears' defensive wall ad nauseum play after play in that fourth quarter.

Leinart was up and down...just as the Cardinals were...and the culture was unstable...even volatile.

Fast forward to today and in light of the stability and structure that Ken Whisenhunt has brought to the Cardinals, what you have in Matt Leinart is a young man who has matured both as a football professional, but as a father and a person. Like his predecessor Kurt Warner, Leinart has given very generous amounts of his time and money to people in need. He does it without any fanfare...he simply does it out of the goodness of his heart.

This off-season Leinart prepared for the season by working closely with Tom Brady and by being a regular participator in John Lott's strength and conditioning program. Lott asserts that few players worked harder or are in better shape than Matt Leinart.

When John Lott believes in you...you've got a great thing going.

Sure cynics still question Leinart about his much discussed off-the-field debauchery as pictures of Leinart chugging down beer bongs and preening in hot tubs surrounded by an array of big-breasted young blondes are still popular hits on the internet.

Yet, Leinart is getting lei-ed in a different way this time around...

He organized and financed a trip to Hawaii for the members of his offensive line. He even included newly acquired guard Alan Faneca who is certainly no stranger to Hawaii, as the stalwart Faneca has been a Pro Bowler every year for the last nine years.

Great move by Leinart. And a generous one at that.

In a year where the exploits of his USC National Championship team have been marred and stripped of their glory thanks to the exposing of egregious violations committed by Reggie Bush and other student athletes...

Matt Leinart has the opportunity to distinguish himself and his career as an NFL quarterback.

Four years ago...there was a Monday Night Football swagger and quiet confidence to Matt Leinart that has since faded...and now this week...this Monday night...Matt Leinart can retrieve that swagger and that quiet confidence and prove to the football world that he is back under the lights where he belongs, this time to stay.

______________________________________________________________

If you are interested in the thought process...(warning: this is a long post...if you are not that interested, do yourself a favor and move on)

Here's exactly what was going through my mind when I wrote these opposite viewpoints:

(1) The "Leinart is Toast" post was written as a gut reaction to having just read that Cris Carter was questioning Larry Fitzgerald's confidence in Matt Leinart. When I read this, I realized that Carter might be grasping for straws, but I do believe that Fitz confides in Carter and that it was entirely possible that Carter may have appropriately inferred from his conversation with Fitz that Fitz was questioning the prospect of having Leinart as his QB...not just because of the injury he incurred, but because of Leinart's erratic play last year, this year during TC, during the Red-White scrimmage and during the 1st pre-season game.

The fact is, in several performances last year, including his start at Tennessee, and his first half performance in this first pre-season game, Matt Leinart has not thrown a single TD pass. Even in the Red-White scrimmage.

Larry Fitzgerald, like Cris Carter, is all about catching TD passes that lead the Cardinals to winning games.

Now...prior to reading Carter's thoughts...one of the things that I have been concerned about regarding Leinart is his body language...I know this incurs the wrath of some of you on this board, but I can assure you as a coach you put a great deal of stock in body language particularly with your QB...because ideally you want your QB to be a highly focused, intense and passionate leader...if you don't look the part, it's tough for your teammates to rally around you.

With Leinart...if you taped the game...watch how the team breaks the huddle (it's just not as crisp as you'd want) and look, not only at Leinart's body language, but look at his face. He looks dazed and/or scared...his mouth is formed into a circle as if he is having a hard time breathing or simply feeling over-whelmed. It is a strange look...almost like the black hole of a ghost's mouth.

Then go and look at Matt Schaub's face and body language...look at how the Texans break the huddle.

These things matter.

What I saw in Leinart was a player who looked scared to make a mistake...and every coach in the NFL will tell you, you cannot play the QB that way and win. You have to let the QBs turn it loose and trust that they will deliver, but you can't play "not to lose"...unless you have a superior running game and a juggernaut defense.

I also, as I mentioned, thought it quite significant that Whiz stayed with Anderson as long as it took for Anderson to glean some success...Whiz avowed after the game that he intended to do as such and that "Derek needed that."

Now, I could be wrong and this might mean Whiz needs his 2nd string QB to be confident, but I also could be right that Whiz is leaning toward Anderson because Anderson has the stronger arm and has passed for more 300 yards games than Leinart (a recent expectation of the Cardinals' offense)...and Anderson has had a Pro Bowl caliber year.

Like I said...I could be wrong...but that's what my gut was telling me.

The fun thing about rhetoric is that it's all about grabbing your reader's interest and/or attention and trying to make as convincing a case as you can. The most effective rhetoricians have an innate ability to counter for whatever objections or rebuttal a detractor might have BEFORE they have a chance to argue the point. I tried to do that...but it's difficult.

I knew with every word I was typing that this position would be as unpopular with most of you as anything I or anyone else could write. I think I wrote what many of you fear and possibly suspect...but I applaud all of your for staying objective and optimistic. Leinart has not made it easy for you. Let's face that. But, Leinart may may be like Dominos Pizza: he might deliver!

I also knew that I would incur a bombardment of "ad hominems" (attack the man, moreso than the argument) from the usual detractors...but I felt prepared to stand up to them.

(2) As a teacher of rhetoric, one of my most favorite essay assigments for my AP and College Prep 11th graders, is to have them argue whether, as Nick Carraway said, "Gatsy turned out all right at the end...it is what preyed on Gatsby, what foul dust flaoted in the wake of his dreams..."

Did Gatsby turn out all right at the end? Nick thought so. Do you agree?

Or not?

Amazingly, every year I get an almost perfect 50/50 split.

Then...I offer extra credit for any student who wishes to present BOTH cases...understanding that one of the main rules of rhetoric is to anticipate what the rebuttals would be and counter for them.

What this become a test of is...the art of argumentation.

(3) Reminded of how often I read BOTH sides of the Gatsby argument and how I myself have modeled paragraphs for BOTH sides, the next morning I thought it would be fun to write the counter-argument (which I quoted above)...and let me tell you something I discovered while doing it...I wrote it in the spirit of what you my fellow ASFNers and friends feel and hope about Matt Leinart...AND...while I was writing it, I actually gained more of an affinity for Leinart myself. I kid you not.

What I want to make clear is...as a loyal Cardinal fan...I would rather be wrong about Leinart if he is the right QB for the job...there was a time when I truly believed Kurt Warner was washed up...but, his one-handed performance in 2007 totally changed my mind. And then once my mind is changed I am like a dog with a bone, as most of you are. That's what makes us so passionate and resolute!

So...while I do have my doubts about Leinart...I will become a huge fan if he delivers.

 

[D-Dogg]

I go with bi-polar.

 

[Jersey Girl]

Give him sometime to get the o-line fixed.

GBR
40

This.

I go with bi-polar.

And this.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

MMMMMM Toast......

You must be registered for see images