The Official "Sign Chidi Ahanatou Now" Thread

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
As compared to who? No one team has every position covered to their satisifaction. Look at the Eagles. How many starters did they loose this off-season. They train and promote from with-in. Wouldn't you like the Cards to have thier won/loss record?

Apparently you content with the club as it stands today. Some of us don't agree with you and would like to see the Cards beef up the roster by looking at some capable players at our thin positions and spend some of that cap $ to improve the team. I agree with Cheese - what's the downside?

 

[AZCB34]

Is Chidi Ahanotu better than Wakefield? Yes.

Is he better than King? Unclear

Is he better than Pace? Still unclear

So how does it hurt to bring in a guy who at worst will get the Cards Dline right back to where they were and in a best case scenario improve the team. All for a fairly low dollar amount.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
I constantly see people on this board talk about how it takes 2 to 3 years for a player to reach his potential and not to depend on our new WR's to be any good for the next 2 to 3 years. Why doesn't that also apply to our young DL's? Maybe now that they are seasoned, Wakefield, Bryant, Bell, etc. are ready to have breakout years. Why bring in an old guy who's going to take reps away from them?

Also, the people who want this guy are the ones saying we are going to have a hard time winning 5 games this year, so why bother bringing in someone who will only be here for a couple of years. Let's season our young guys and play for next year.

Mostly because Bryant and Bell are DTs, Wakefield is best used as a nickel DT (as the Cards are on record as saying), and Chidi plays LDE, which is a position of weakness since our starter on the strongside, Kyle Vanden Bosch, just was lost for the season due to injury.

I, for one, am saying that the Cards should be proactive and sign players in the hope of winning 6 or 7 games rather than the 5 that I'm predicting right now. If Dennis Johnson and Alton Moore are going to be cut anyway, then Ahanotu is an upgrade, because he's better than they are now, and probably for the next two years.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Yes and because we didn't get them, according to you, we are not going to win many games this year, so why grab a guy who may only help us this year?

Because this team HAS TO START WINNING AT SOME LEVEL! What would it hurt to get a guy like this? Do you really think Fred Wakefield is a long term anything on this team. Why not just cut his ass and sign Chidi if the club likes him? He's got more experience, he's played on winners and he's been a better player? What is the problem with this?

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Is Chidi Ahanotu better than Wakefield? Yes.

Is he better than King? Unclear

Is he better than Pace? Still unclear

So how does it hurt to bring in a guy who at worst will get the Cards Dline right back to where they were and in a best case scenario improve the team. All for a fairly low dollar amount.

Can you say this with complete certainty? You're positive that Chidi can out play Wakefield this year? You don't think that Wakefield has improved one iota from last year and a year's more experience won't help him this year, his 3rd year in the pros?

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Money is a great motivator.

Not necessarily. How many times have we seen a player go soft after cashing the big paycheck? But the possibility of making money is always a motivator - that's why players play hard in their contract year.

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Because this team HAS TO START WINNING AT SOME LEVEL! What would it hurt to get a guy like this? Do you really think Fred Wakefield is a long term anything on this team. Why not just cut his ass and sign Chidi if the club likes him? He's got more experience, he's played on winners and he's been a better player? What is the problem with this?

Have you guys realized that I am using the same logic on you that you were using when we signed Emmitt Smith

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Can you say this with complete certainty? You're positive that Chidi can out play Wakefield this year? You don't think that Wakefield has improved one iota from last year and a year's more experience won't help him this year, his 3rd year in the pros?

Alot of times I think I can outplay Wakefield and I am 5' 9" and am in no shape and have a bad back

Even an improved Wakefield isn;t as good as Chidi IMO. This is the point where brilliant GMs make a move and roll the dice. They take a chance on a guy to improve their team (IMO, this one is closer to a no brainer than most). The Cards stand to lose very little with doing this.

Wakefield is not the answer. If he was, he would have been starting ahead of KVB. Chidi is as good as KVB IMO...maybe slightly better.

 

[kerouac9]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Can you say this with complete certainty? You're positive that Chidi can out play Wakefield this year? You don't think that Wakefield has improved one iota from last year and a year's more experience won't help him this year, his 3rd year in the pros?

40year, I'm getting more and more convinced that you're either high, or just an instigator. The question is not whether Chidi is better than Wakefield, or will be better than him this year. It's whether Chidi will be better than Johnson and Moore this season, and then answer is yes, unless Johnson and Moore have suddenly improved by quantum leaps in the past five days. Chidi would at least be the #2 LDE on the depth chart. How can you not say that Chidi is better than Dennis Johnson?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
I constantly see people on this board talk about how it takes 2 to 3 years for a player to reach his potential and not to depend on our new WR's to be any good for the next 2 to 3 years. Why doesn't that also apply to our young DL's? Maybe now that they are seasoned, Wakefield, Bryant, Bell, etc. are ready to have breakout years. Why bring in an old guy who's going to take reps away from them?

The WR at a basic level all have talent - well at least B.J. and Boldin - history has shown that WR take a while to develop okay - since they are high draft picks - that's fine - give them time to develop.

D-lineman who were either NEVER drafted or drafted in the 5 round or lower don't get that kind of time. D-lineman also make an impact more often than not when they hit the scene than WRs -which has been shown, besides QB, to be the most dificult position to make the transition to. I mean, these are guy who have been on the worst Dline combined the last two years - WHAT IN THE HELL MAKES YOU THINK, AND WHAT HAS MADE YOU SEE IMPROVEMENT FROM THEM? If anything this defense with these turds playing last year (excluding Pace and Bryant) was the worst I have ever seen the last nine games - do you really think magically they are just gonn aget better. Screw playing for ext year - every year is important - winning has to start at some level.

 

[AZCB34]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Have you guys realized that I am using the same logic on you that you were using when we signed Emmitt Smith

Except Wakefield isn;t a budding player like Shipp is/was. HUGE difference.

 

[JeffGollin]

A "Politically Incorrect" Observation

When we drafted KVB, our entire defensive line (of Wads, Swann, Smith and Rice) had been decimated.

The Cardinal brass was obsessed at having someone off the right edge who stood up better against the run than Simmy Rice did. We drafted KVB in the second round - his reputation was that of a good tackler who might be able to put some pressure on the passer but who was certainly no sackmaster.

We also "got lucky" with a 6-7 UDFA (Wakefield) who could play LDE. We also started drafting mid-range DT's to help plug the leak inside and, since that strategy was not very successful, finally bit the bullet and drafted Wendell Bryant with a high pick.

That's the background. Plus one other very important thing - Over the past 2 - 3 year period, it became pretty apparent that we lacked a pass rush and were hanging our DB's out to dry.

But what did we have? Two stout-hearted "character" DE's who couldn't rush the passer plus Wendell and a bunch of other nondescript DT's. Plus, oh yeah - Dennis Johnson; our only DE with any potential as a pass rusher.

So we drafted Pace in the first round this past draft and got lucky with our 5th round pick, Ken King (who apparently also can rush the hell out of the passer). And then we changed our defensive scheme to a more aggressive one where not only our defensive linemen but our linebackers are now getting into the pass rushing act.

As much as we all loved KVB, he no longer fit the job description for a RDE (i.e. an edge rusher) and he, Wakefield and probably King would all have competed for the LDE spot (which is more run-support and less pass-rush oriented than the other side) if he had remained healthy.

KVB remained an important cog in our defensive scheme because he played a particular role (toughness against the run) and had become a spiritual leader - but to some degree he had become one-dimensional lineman (moreso given our new emphasis on getting to the QB).

He was the right man for the time when we drafted him, but I believe the Cards were starting to move in another direction anyway.

My point? KVB was an important cog in the over all scheme of things, but not indispensable. We'll be OK.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Have you guys realized that I am using the same logic on you that you were using when we signed Emmitt Smith

Yeah, but Emmit was replacing a palyer WHO DID BREAKOUT last season. If Wakefield in limited action had put 6 sacks and stuffed the run, we wouldn't be talking abouyt this - but he didn't, nbever has, and never has shown he will - so you are using logic with a completely different set of circumstances which makes you look rather foolish - but it makes for lively discussion!

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Have you guys realized that I am using the same logic on you that you were using when we signed Emmitt Smith

Did this just slip by everybody?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by kerouac9
If Dennis Johnson and Alton Moore are going to be cut anyway, then Ahanotu is an upgrade, because he's better than they are now, and probably for the next two years.

I haven't been impressed with Johnson. However Moore has shown me a great deal of upside. I'd rather keep Moore and develope him for the future than bring in a player who is on his last legs and was average at best in his prime.

I have a feeling that you are looking at the players who will be on this team unless someone unexpected gets cut. Like Graves said, DE are a hard commodity to come by so I wouldn't hold your breath on a decent one getting released.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Did this just slip by everybody?

No- I think that me and AZCB34 pretty much took care of that one.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by MadCardDisease
I haven't been impressed with Johnson. However Moore has shown me a great deal of upside. I'd rather keep Moore and develope him for the future than bring in a player who is on his last legs and was average at best in his prime.

I have a feeling that you are looking at the players who will be on this team unless someone unexpected gets cut. Like Graves said, DE are a hard commodity to come by so I wouldn't hold your breath on a decent one getting released.

Well - I kinda have a feeling that ANYONE could down and we would pretty much be looking at the exact same roster, with the exception of a couple of undrafted free agent signings.

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
Yeah, but Emmit was replacing a palyer WHO DID BREAKOUT last season. If Wakefield in limited action had put 6 sacks and stuffed the run, we wouldn't be talking abouyt this - but he didn't, nbever has, and never has shown he will - so you are using logic with a completely different set of circumstances which makes you look rather foolish - but it makes for lively discussion!

C'mon Cheesy. I just turned it around on you guys and used your arguments against you. Ya might not like it, but you gotta appreciate it.

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Did this just slip by everybody?

No. You got busted. You get an A for effort though.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Originally posted by AZCB34
Graves is going to wait until the end of camp to see who gets cut before making a move.

Isn't Graves also still waiting for the June 1st receivers to be cut?

 

[40yearfan]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
Isn't Graves also still waiting for the June 1st receivers to be cut?

June 1, 2004

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
C'mon Cheesy. I just turned it around on you guys and used your arguments against you. Ya might not like it, but you gotta appreciate it.

Yeah - but your argument doesn't make sense because the circumstances are completely different - Emmit last eyar was not as good as Shipp- a player who had shown to be a breakout performer and possible answer at RB - Chidi has been better than Wakefield his entire career, Wakefield did not breakout last season - but rather was run over and and about to be demoted by our first round pick. Your logic would make sense on the moon - I think they have good cheese there You are making me smile though and shaking my head - so that's oemthing.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
June 1, 2004

Oh - okay - now it makes sense. Patience, patience.

 

[Jttsaz]

Graves plainly said that they would be looking for a FA DE, but that the chances of finding one as good or better was remote. Then why not bring in Ahanatou and give him a workout? Find out what he has to offer...Then make an informed desicion as to wether this guy can help out this football team. This team needs to do what it can to win now...for coach Mac's sake. I don't want to lose coach Mac because we want to "see what we have" and stick with it. I'm all for playing our young guys in an effort to win next year...but if that's the case then give coach Mac an extension and let the fans know that this is a rebuilding year period...Play Josh McCown and truly see if he can play in this league...don't sign an Emmitt Smith to take playing time away from Shipp. You can't be all things to all people...either put the best damn team that you can on the field to win as much as possible or play the young guys to see if they can play in hopes to build a winning squad in a year or 2. I don't want to mortgage the future, but I don't see how the Cards bringing in help at D line(especially given the injury), CB or even a veteran QB to compete with McCown at backup QB. Put the best team on the field now......

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
- Chidi has been better than Wakefield his entire career, Wakefield did not breakout last season - but rather was run over and and about to be demoted by our first round pick.

Lets see,

Fred Wakefield:

2002: Started 15 of 16 games and posted 44 tackles (21 solos), 3 quarterback sacks, 9 hurries, 2 tackles for loss, 1 forced fumble, and 5 pass deflections

2001: Started final 12 games, recording 47 tackles (20 solos), 2 quarterback sacks, team-best 16 hurries, 4 tackles for loss, 9 passes defensed, and 1 interception return for touchdown

Chidi Ahanatou last year:

2002: Started 14 of 16 games and posted 44 tackles (32 solos) 5 quaterback sacks

2001: Started all 16 games and posted 29 tackles (21 solos), 2 quarterback sacks, 1 pass defended


He really doesn't seem to be much of an upgrade over Wakefield. Actually Wakefield did better than I remembered.