The Official US Soccer thread

[Stout]

We took a dump on the field, no two ways about it. How in the hell coaches keep bringing Klestjan (sp?) back is beyond me. He's always been a horrific player, and yet he still gets chances.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Pre-World Cup friendlies:

U.S. MEN’S NATIONAL TEAM SEND-OFF SERIES (All Times Eastern)
May 27: Candlestick Park, San Francisco
10pm – USA vs. Azerbaijan – ESPN2
June 1: Red Bull Arena, Harrison, N.J.
2pm – USA vs. Turkey – ESPN2
June 7: EverBank Stadium, Jacksonville, Fla.
6pm – USA vs. Nigeria – ESPN


http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/03/report-azerbaijan-nigeria.html

 

[Dr. Jones]

Looks like we got Julian Green to look forward to. And he might play in Phoenix.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Julian Green files one time switch, committing himself to the US.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/03/files-switch-usmnt.html

 

[Zeno]

Julian Green files one time switch, committing himself to the US.

http://www.soccerbyives.net/2014/03/files-switch-usmnt.html

Cue our resident German to say how he wasn't good enough for their team...blah blah blah

 

[slinslin]

Cue our resident German to say how he wasn't good enough for their team...blah blah blah

If you think a kid playing in 4th division right now and who has been a fringe youth national team player is good enough for the German squad right now you are delusional.

Green has a German mother, they moved to Germany when he was 2 years old and divorced from his American father. He basically lived his whole life in Germany, he played for German youth national teams.

Right now he is not qualified at all to play for a senior national team. Calling him up and luring him with the chance to go to the World Cup is immoral and tactic on the possibility that some day he might be good enough and then can't go back anymore.

Guess when you have no chance at winning you can afford to give away roster spots to prospects.

And that said Green is a good talent but at his age class in Germany not among the top 10. (Timo Werner 17 VFB Stuttgart, Max Meyer 18 Schalke 04, Serge Gnabry 18 FC Arsenal, Julian Brandt 17 Bayer 04 Leverkusen, Leon Goretzka 19 Schalke 04, Donis Avdijaj 17 Schalke 04, Jonathan Tah 17 Hamburg, Gedion Zelalem 17 FC Arsenal, Federico Palacios Martínez 18 RB Leipzig... and not to mention for the most part the national team is still very young with players like Götze, Draxler and so on.
He has enough talent that if he develops properly that he could have made it into the German national team one day. To me his decision means two things: Klinsmann talked him into it and he is basically admitting that making the German national team is a long shot.

Though I wonder how it feels when half of your national team is made up from players born and raised in other countries or at least having spend almost no portion of their lives in the U.S. .

 

[Zeno]

If you think a kid playing in 4th division right now and who has been a fringe youth national team player is good enough for the German squad right now you are delusional.

Green has a German mother, they moved to Germany when he was 2 years old and divorced from his American father. He basically lived his whole life in Germany, he played for German youth national teams.

Right now he is not qualified at all to play for a senior national team. Calling him up and luring him with the chance to go to the World Cup is immoral and tactic on the possibility that some day he might be good enough and then can't go back anymore.

Guess when you have no chance at winning you can afford to give away roster spots to prospects.

And that said Green is a good talent but at his age class in Germany not among the top 10. (Timo Werner 17 VFB Stuttgart, Max Meyer 18 Schalke 04, Serge Gnabry 18 FC Arsenal, Julian Brandt 17 Bayer 04 Leverkusen, Leon Goretzka 19 Schalke 04, Donis Avdijaj 17 Schalke 04, Jonathan Tah 17 Hamburg, Gedion Zelalem 17 FC Arsenal, Federico Palacios Martínez 18 RB Leipzig... and not to mention for the most part the national team is still very young with players like Götze, Draxler and so on.
He has enough talent that if he develops properly that he could have made it into the German national team one day. To me his decision means two things: Klinsmann talked him into it and he is basically admitting that making the German national team is a long shot.

Though I wonder how it feels when half of your national team is made up from players born and raised in other countries or at least having spend almost no portion of their lives in the U.S. .

Right on cue. Very predictable.

Rabble, rabble, rabble...

Half the team? Care to break that down?

Goalkeepers
Tim Howard - Born in New Jersey
Brad Guzan - Born in Illinois
Nick Rimando - Born in California

Defenders
Matt Besler - Born in Kansas
Omar Gonzalez - Born in Texas
Clarence Goodson - Born in Virginia
Geoff Cameron - Born in Massachusetts
Brad Evans - Born in Arizona
Michael Parkhurst - Born in Rhode Island
Fabian Johnson - Born in Munich, Germany
DaMarcus Beasley - Born in Indiana

Midfielders
Michael Bradley - Born in New Jersey
Jermaine Jones - Born in Frankfurt, Germany
Kyle Beckerman - Born in Maryland
Graham Zusi - Born in Florida
Alejandro Bedoya - Born in New Jersey
Landon Donovan - Born in California
Eddie Johnson - Born in Florida
Clint Dempsey - Born in Texas
Mikkel Diskerud - Born in Oslo, Norway

Forwards
Jozy Altidore - Born in New Jersey
Aron Johannsson - Born in Alabama
Chris Wondolowski - Born in California

That is 3 players from the projected US WC roster...half? Must be German math...4 if you count Green--which would be less than 1/4 of the team.

Lets look at Germany--they wouldn't have any foreign born players right?

Whoops...
Miroslav Klose - Born in Poland
Luksz Podolski - Born in Poland

 

[slinslin]

Klose and Podoslki have always been German you come up with a terrible comparison.
Their families have been German, their grand parents were German citizen and their native tongue was German. Their families came over to Germany late after WW2.
Both of their home towns are in a part of Poland that had been German for a long long time ~1740-1945.
Klose even has a German name.

Klose left Poland at age 3, Podoslki at age 2.

Additionally both of them grew up in Germany, both went through German youth teams.

Your list leaves some names out and is not even accurate.

Cody Cropper was invited last time, born in the US but he grew up in England it seems.

John Anthony Brooks, born in Berlin, German parent, never lived in the US, played for German youth national team
Fabian Johnson, born in Munich, German parent, played for German youth national teams, never lived in the US.
Alfredo Morales, born in Berlin, never lived in the US.
Daniel Williams, born in Karlsruhe, German parent, never lived in the US, played for German youth national team.
Jermaine Jones, born in Frankfurt, German parent, never lived in the US, played for German youth and senior national teams
Terrence Boyd, born in Bremen, German parent, never lived in the US
Timmothy Chandler, born in Frankfurt, German parent, born and raised in Germany, parents divorced and raised by mother
Julian Green, born in Tampa, German mother, left USA at age 2, parents divorced, raised by mother in Germany, played for German youth teams

Those are 7 players from your current squad of 21 that are born and raised in Germany plus Green makes it 8.
A quick glance at the USA U20 team reveals at least Jerome Kiesewetter, also born and raised in Berlin.

Aron Jóhannsson, born in Alabama, both parents from Iceland, left USA at age 3, played for Iceland youth teams

makes it 9 of 21.

Mikkel Diskerud, born and raised in Oslo, Norway, played for Norway youth national teams

makes in 10 of 21

Edgar Castillo, born in New Mexico, but Mexican and even played for Mexico youth and senior teams

makes it 11 of 21.

Half of your team is almost made up of German players who have never lived in the US, some of them were not even raised by 1 American parent.
Your national team is more German than American, even your coach is German.
Communicating in German is probably easier in your locker room.

 

[Zeno]

Klose and Podoslki have always been German you come up with a terrible comparison.
Their families have been German, their grand parents were German citizen and their native tongue was German. Their families came over to Germany late after WW2.
Both of their home towns are in a part of Poland that had been German for a long long time ~1740-1945.
Klose even has a German name.

Klose left Poland at age 3, Podoslki at age 2.

Additionally both of them grew up in Germany, both went through German youth teams.

Your list leaves some names out and is not even accurate.

Cody Cropper was invited last time, born in the US but he grew up in England it seems.

John Anthony Brooks, born in Berlin, German parent, never lived in the US, played for German youth national team
Fabian Johnson, born in Munich, German parent, played for German youth national teams, never lived in the US.
Alfredo Morales, born in Berlin, never lived in the US.
Daniel Williams, born in Karlsruhe, German parent, never lived in the US, played for German youth national team.
Jermaine Jones, born in Frankfurt, German parent, never lived in the US, played for German youth and senior national teams
Terrence Boyd, born in Bremen, German parent, never lived in the US
Timmothy Chandler, born in Frankfurt, German parent, born and raised in Germany, parents divorced and raised by mother
Julian Green, born in Tampa, German mother, left USA at age 2, parents divorced, raised by mother in Germany, played for German youth teams

Those are 7 players from your current squad of 21 that are born and raised in Germany plus Green makes it 8.
A quick glance at the USA U20 team reveals at least Jerome Kiesewetter, also born and raised in Berlin.

Aron Jóhannsson, born in Alabama, both parents from Iceland, left USA at age 3, played for Iceland youth teams

makes it 9 of 21.

Mikkel Diskerud, born and raised in Oslo, Norway, played for Norway youth national teams

makes in 10 of 21

Edgar Castillo, born in New Mexico, but Mexican and even played for Mexico youth and senior teams

makes it 11 of 21.

Half of your team is almost made up of German players who have never lived in the US, some of them were not even raised by 1 American parent.
Your national team is more German than American, even your coach is German.
Communicating in German is probably easier in your locker room.

Bolded players won't make the US WC squad unless there is an abundance of injury and I seriously doubt Brooks makes it either.

Johannsson spent his summers in Florida and even spent some time in residency with the US Youth Academy.

Then you can look at players who went the other way in Subotic and Rossi--Subotic is a US citizen played with the USYNT and Rossi was born and raised on the east coast did not go to Italy until his late teens.

You are just upset that German girls can't seem to turn down US GI's. Must be our charm and class.

 

[slinslin]

Subotic is born in Serbia, both his parents are from Serbia. At age 2 he moved to Germany. At age 11 he moved to the US. His native tongue is not English.

He spent 7 years in the US that does not make him "American". Oddly enough I recently saw an invertivew with him on German TV and he said he does not feel American at all.

 

[slinslin]

I don't care if a player decides to play for another country.

But poaching these young players and convincing a kid to make that decision is absolutely immoral behavior.

Green for example has little ties to the US at all besides his father who did not even raise him, he has no pro-experience so far, he plays 4th league and occasionally practices with the senior squad along with some other youth players.
He has no merits to play for a national team yet, poaching him early is obviously a strategy to lock him up so he can't change his mind again and that is disgusting.

Same case with Zelalem, raised in Berlin as well and played for Hertha youth academy. He decided to play for Germany on his own but Klinsmann already tries to poach him away and lock him up for the national team despite having turned only 17.

Turkey for example aggressively tries to poach any kid in Germany with Turkish ancestry to play for them as early as possible. They quote "terrorize" German youth national teams to convince them to switch sides, then they invite them to their national team and sub them in for a few minutes to lock them up.

 

[Stout]

That reaction wasn't predictable at all

Green walks right into a starting role, IMO. Oh, and he isn't playing 4th division. He's made appearances for Bayern Munich's 1st team this season. He's a solid German prospect who is a sure-fire player for the U.S. team, to put it simply.

In other news, it's sad to hear that Cherundalo has to hang 'em up.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Though I wonder how it feels when half of your national team is made up from players born and raised in other countries or at least having spend almost no portion of their lives in the U.S. .

We are the worlds melting pot for a reason.

the rest of it was the best attempt to be a whining baby that I have seen in a long time.

 

[slinslin]

That reaction wasn't predictable at all

Green walks right into a starting role, IMO. Oh, and he isn't playing 4th division. He's made appearances for Bayern Munich's 1st team this season. He's a solid German prospect who is a sure-fire player for the U.S. team, to put it simply.

In other news, it's sad to hear that Cherundalo has to hang 'em up.

no he has not

he made appearances in friendly games, he is playing in the 4th division still and has no pro experience at all unless you consider 3 minutes as a sub in a meaningless game experience. Putting him in the starting lineup is a major slap in the face to other players.

 

[slinslin]

We are the worlds melting pot for a reason.

the rest of it was the best attempt to be a whining baby that I have seen in a long time.

Except like as I pointed out 8+ of the players regularly playing for the US in the last year are neither born in the US nor have they ever lived in the US.

 

[Zeno]

Except like as I pointed out 8+ of the players regularly playing for the US in the last year are neither born in the US nor have they ever lived in the US.

As I pointed out at most 5 players who will be with the WC squad are as you describe yet you ignore it.

Johnson, Jones, Johansson are the only one who will likely start.

Let's not make it out that the team is "poaching" and is full of guys as you describe.

It isn't our fault that German girls can't keep their panties on when they meet an American

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

Whether or not our citizens are "American enough" is not for you to judge. These are all adult men capable of making their own decisions. Men whose situations give them the option to represent the country they want without having their right to do so shuttered just because you don't like some of the choices they make. Especially when the slinslin scale of Americanness is comically (but predictably) inconsistent. Sometimes you say place of birth matters, other times it doesn't. Where they spent time as a kid matters, except when its seven years, because oh don't be silly why would seven years be important. The nationality of the mother counts, unless that of the father should be used instead. Service to a youth team counts. Except when it doesn't.

Your list leaves some names out and is not even accurate.

Cody Cropper, United States Citizen
John Anthony Brooks, United States Citizen
Fabian Johnson, United States Citizen
Alfredo Morales, United States Citizen
Daniel Williams, United States Citizen
Jermaine Jones, United States Citizen
Terrence Boyd, United States Citizen
Timmothy Chandler, United States Citizen
Julian Green, United States Citizen
Mikkel Diskerud, United States Citizen
Aron Jóhannsson, United States Citizen
Edgar Castillo, United States Citizen

Fixed your list for you. Though counting Cropper (0 caps), Brooks (3), Morales (1), Johannsson (7), Green (0), Williams and Chandler (1 appearance each in last year) as USMNT regulars was a slick move. Especially when you take into account your ever changing rationale for why these Americans aren't American.

He spent 7 years in the US that does not make him "American".

No, becoming a naturalized citizen makes him American. It is his choice what he does with that.

I don't care if a player decides to play for another country.

Sure fooled us. Must be a coincidence that the day after Green files his paperwork, here you come running along.

Except like as I pointed out 8+ of the players regularly playing for the US in the last year are neither born in the US nor have they ever lived in the US.

You apparently can't count, or you don't have a correct grasp of the "neither/nor" logic device.

Guess when you have no chance at winning you can afford to give away roster spots to prospects.

Please. Brazil brought a 17 year old Ronaldo to the World Cup in 1994 with no intention of playing him, just so their top prospect would gain experience out of the trip. Remind me again which nation won the 1994 World Cup.

 

[Stout]

no he has not

he made appearances in friendly games, he is playing in the 4th division still and has no pro experience at all unless you consider 3 minutes as a sub in a meaningless game experience. Putting him in the starting lineup is a major slap in the face to other players.

Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. He's only made an appearance for the first team. In the UEFA Champions League. With Bayern Munich. At age 18. Nice try to brush it under the rug as '3 minutes as a sub in a meaningless game'. Players all over the world at many levels and ages would kill for that experience. You are so biased it is silly.

 

[Neo]

But poaching these young players and convincing a kid to make that decision is absolutely immoral behavior.

Can you please how this is "absolutely immoral behavior?" Green is old enough to drive a car, get married, start a family, vote, join the military, cover his body in piercings and tattoos, but he isn't old enough to be encouraged to join the national team?

Please explain.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Sami Khedira - Mother is German, Father is Tunesian.
Mesut Ozil - His grandparents are from Turkey. His quote: "My technique and feeling for the ball is the Turkish side to my game."
Shkodran Mustafi's parents are from Albania.
Lukas Podolski was born in Poland.
Miroslav Klose was born in Poland.
Dont even get me started on the Boateng brothers.

 

[Shzm13]

Typical swarming of anyone who doesn't agree with this board's homer views on the USMNT.

Greene's a good prospect w/ as much right to play for the NT as any other citizen, regardless of where they are from. He is obviously talented enough to be at the youth system of one of the best clubs in the world, but there are quite a bit of people getting carried away, when he doesn't have much experience outside of 4th Division. It wouldn't hurt to tone down the hype, we all saw what that did to Adu.

My question, will he be called up to the US-MX friendly Apr 2nd?

 

[slinslin]

Sami Khedira - Mother is German, Father is Tunesian.
Mesut Ozil - His grandparents are from Turkey. His quote: "My technique and feeling for the ball is the Turkish side to my game."
Shkodran Mustafi's parents are from Albania.
Lukas Podolski was born in Poland.
Miroslav Klose was born in Poland.
Dont even get me started on the Boateng brothers.

All born and raised in Germany with the exception of Klose and Podolski who were born in a formerly German part of Poland to German families and left Poland as babies. Podolskis grand parents native tongue is still German, Klose has a German name even.

Mesut Özil has spent more time in Spain than Turkey - his own quote. His parents are both GERMAN. His grandparents immigrated to Germany a long time ago. He declined his Turkish citizenship when he turned 18 already. He has little to no connection to Turkey really.

"Dont get you started on the Boateng brothers"? Both born in Berlin, both have a German and a African parents, both raised in Berlin, both played for German youth teams, KPB plays for Ghana, Jerome for Germany..

They are 1000% German, if anything it is a joke that KPB plays for Ghana. The only reason that KPB plays for them is that he fell out with German national team staff and was never under serious consideration for the team so he took the chance to play a world cup with Ghana only to retire from the national team afterward and now coming back for the World Cup again.

There is a big difference between players who actually are German and have lived in Germany there whole life and the players playing for the US that only know the US from vacation if at all.

 

[slinslin]

Can you please how this is "absolutely immoral behavior?" Green is old enough to drive a car, get married, start a family, vote, join the military, cover his body in piercings and tattoos, but he isn't old enough to be encouraged to join the national team?

Please explain.

He is 18.

Encouraging/convincing an 18 year old to join a national team when he has not even made pro experience so far is a joke. Especially in a country that enforces age limits in their pro sports to even get to the NBA/NFL etc.

But of course it is ok to poach an 18 year old who has not even shown on a pro level that he is ready just to lock him up so that he can't go back on his decision anymore.

 

[slinslin]

Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. He's only made an appearance for the first team. In the UEFA Champions League. With Bayern Munich. At age 18. Nice try to brush it under the rug as '3 minutes as a sub in a meaningless game'. Players all over the world at many levels and ages would kill for that experience. You are so biased it is silly.

It is not a "nice try". It is a fact, he got subbed in in the 90th minute when Bayern was already comfortably winning against a **** team.

Green is far away from actually breaking into the team, he will likely be loaned out next year if anyone is interested.

He has not played well in the 4th division lately either. He has not scored in the 4th division since October. Calling him up for the national team is purely tactical from Klinsmann. It is not only immoral it is also a slap in the face to all pro players that are trying to make the world cup squad to call up a player who has done nothing yet at pro level.

 

[Neo]

But of course it is ok to poach an 18 year old who has not even shown on a pro level that he is ready just to lock him up so that he can't go back on his decision anymore.

I am glad that we can agree on that much. He is an adult. If he is old enough to help choose the Bundestag, then he is old enough to what country he wants to belong to for playing soccer.

After all, the decision of what national team he will play for has virtually no impact on his pro career. And since, as you imply, he has no shot at being on Germany's World Cup team this is a fantastic opportunity for this young man that he would not have gotten without the decision to play for the the country of his birth. Like the director of communications for the German national team said "But ultimately, it is the personal choice of each individual."